CBM-170 SE newbie questions

[Rooster]

I received my CBM-170 SE four days ago and have been in the process of running them in almost constantly since then. They definitely have opened up a bit. The bass has improved some, which is nice. Overall these are my impressions: very accurate, clear, image well, excellent with vocals, jazz, and well recorded acoustic guitar.

My only grip so far is a bit of 'hardness' or 'edgy-ness' with rock at moderate levels. I hear this especially with certain electric guitar riffs, or cymbals. It is a bit fatiguing. The listening level I am talking about is not loud by most standards, just moderate. My room is a smallish office (12'x11') without much in the way of soft furniture, only curtains on the windows, which I close during listening to soak up any radiant sound.

Has anyone else experienced this with the CBM-170s? Will this mellow as they burn in more or is this just the way they are?

Setup:
Vintage Fisher 500B - receiver
Cambridge Audio Azur 540C - CD
Transparent interconnects and wire
Sand filled stands 28" high.

Thanks in advance for any advice
Rooster

[bikeman]

Will this mellow as they burn in more or is this just the way they are?

Neither. Speakers, don't "burn in" and that's not the way Ascend's are voiced. Lots of possibilities. You've already mentioned some.

David

[Asliang]

I think a prominent DIYer mentioned he heard a slight harshness at around 1.2KHz, but this is a very minor tradeoff considering he considered the Ascends better than several prominent speakers around $1000 including from Dynaudio and Paradigm. Also, almost all speakers that are designed to be this linear are bound to have a few tiny areas that might have been slightly over EQed--of course I'm just speaking my mind now and not basing it on any proveable facts.

You could try a little bit of EQing to see if this really is a problem area for you.

[Asliang]

I think the Ascends do well with a lot of music personally. The only stuff that it seems to struggle abit with is enya, which seems a little harsh--possibly the source as well.

[Rooster]

Bikeman,

Please help me here; you said speakers do not "burn in" what is it then? Is the correct term, "run in"? Or are you saying that no such phenomenon takes place at all? Do you mean to say that a speaker sounds the same when first out of the box as when it has 100 hours of playing under its belt?

Regarding the mild harshness I am hearing, I will set the Ascends up in my living room where there is ample soft furniture and a rug and do some listening.

Thanks to those who took the time to reply.
Rooster.

[shane55]

Well I hate to argue, but speakers do 'break-in'.
Within the first two months I noticed a considerable difference in the sound of my Ascends (as well as other 'serious' speakers I've owned).

I believe this phenomenon is most noticable with subwoofers. The owner of the subwoofer company I purchased mine from confirmed my observations. I'd be surprised if Mr. Fabrikant didn't agree. (David... what say you?)

Anyway, yes... I also believe that the room acoustics can wreck havoc on the sound, as can the source material.

Older, early mastering of rock CD's are particularly painful. Since you liked the way the 170's produced other types of music... there might be a reason these rock sources sound harsh besides the speakers.

cheers and congrats on the 170's.

shane

[bikeman]

Bikeman,
Or are you saying that no such phenomenon takes place at all? Do you mean to say that a speaker sounds the same when first out of the box as when it has 100 hours of playing under its belt?

Correct. There is sometimes a period of adaptation but it's not the speakers that are adapting. Human hearing is very complex and is currently the subject of study, along with our other senses, in the field of psychology.
It's not that there isn't a change going on, it's the source of the change that gets some audiophiles confused. For some reason, these audiophiles feel their hearing is static and the speakers are adapting. If the speakers were adapting, it could be measured and there'd be no discussion. There may be some minute changes to the speakers in the first few moments of movement but that isn't what many audiophiles are referring to when they claim speaker break-in.
The thread on what difference audio cables make was just shut down on AVS. It's a religious type issue with some audiophiles. If any real evidence is ever uncovered about changes in audio equipment, you'll read about it in peer reviewed journals, not audiophile discussion groups.
It's alright to expect some degree of change when listening to audio equipment. Just don't assume the equipment is what's changing.

David

[GaryB]

If bikeman's refreshing assertions reflect more than the opinions of a few curmudgeons such as he and I, there may be hope for this world, after all...

[Rooster]

I don't mean to argue either, but based on my own experiences and "conventional" wisdom in the hi-fi industry, it would seem that speakers do indeed undergo some type of 'break-in'.

Take for example the suspension of the mid bass driver. It has been explained to me on more then one occasion, and by different individuals, that this portion of the speaker will tend to loosen up, or become more free moving over time. This leads to a change in response and therefore sounds. Is there no truth to this?

Final point, if there is absolutely no changes what so ever that a speaker undergoes from first being powered up to many hours down the line, why then do so many industry folks recommend a 'break-in' period? Are they all misguided? Are all these individuals merely experiencing a change in their own hearing and attributing it to the speakers?

I am skeptical to say the least. No, I don't have any empirical evidence to back this up and I am not by any means an audiophile (what ever that is). I can just go on what I heard when initially playing the Ascends and other speakers I have owned over the years. Frankly, if there is some evidence to support or debunk speaker 'break in' I'd love to read it.

Rooster (trying to learn more through good natured discussion)

[davef]

Speaker Break-in...

This is difficult...

Do the components that make up a speaker change over time?

From a technical standpoint they do, especially woofers.

T/S parameters of a woofer will change over time; I have seen this first hand. When you consider that the woofer's spider is almost always made from some form of specialized fabric, compliance changes with more usage are expected. Suspensions do loosen up which will result in resonant frequency and compliance changes (usually for the better)

Tweeters break-in less. In my experience, tweeters with some form of magnetic fluid in the gap (like Ferro fluid) do improve after a very short time period. These fluids, which can be low viscosity, settle a bit with use.

Now, the real question is whether or not these changes are audible. They are indeed measurable so technically, they can be audible but there is absolutely no proof on either end of the argument. What we can measure, does not necessarily determine what we are capable of hearing.

To better answer the question, "Do loudspeaker's break-in? " Yes, whether or not we can actually hear these changes is the real question and that's one I can't answer...

Here is an interesting experiment on speaker break-in: http://www.vikash.info/audio/audax/