New Ascend 170SE owner--thoughts on the Mirage Omni S12

[ebh]

thank you both. in the sub world there seems to be so much FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt)... it's hard to get to the bottom of things. And unlike speakers, which would cost maybe $20 to ship back if i don't like them, a sub is a much bigger hit on the budget just for a demo period.

Part of my problem is I think I am looking for a mythical perfect sub that probably doesn't exist (at least in my price range)--really great sound for music, but deep response for DVDs. I don't plan to listen to it at loud levels since I live in an apartment, but I do want to hear it and feel it when appropriate. I also have a mildly large space when taking into account adjacent openings, and I'm not sure how that contributes to the overall issue.

And I know what you mean about trust Curtis. It's great that the internet companies especially are very consumer-oriented but I have felt a bit of a hard sell at times. And the Mirage just doesn't have the reviews behind it to make me feel completely comfortable.

[Quinn]

Since you asked, ebh, you might be interested in einsteinjb's assessment of the SVS PB10 in the following thread:

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=1548

Apparently not everyone agrees with the "conventional wisdom".

He says he prefers it for HT. We are talking about SQ with music.

"It has greater output and deeper extension.....but for HT I definitely prefer the SVS."

[GaryB]

It's quite amazing to me how so many people only see, hear, etc. what they want to. Here's another quote from the same post:

I own an SVS PB10-ISD and a Hsu VTF-2 Mk2. They're both AMAZING subwoofers for their price range, extremely musical and clean, very accurate

The emphasis is mine.

To quote Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that." This issue has been beaten to death in every audio forum on the 'net.

[ebh]

To quote Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that." This issue has been beaten to death in every audio forum on the 'net.

understood. That's why this is such a PITA. Seems that there are partisans on either side. Add to the problem that each person is different, each room is different etc., and it just makes it hard to figure out which way is up.

That's why it's understandable that people say just listen to it, but that's not always the easiest thing to do either. I can't be draggins 60 pounds of sub up 3 flights of stairs all the time, and my credit card and fiancee certainly wouldn't appreciate it either, heh.

[curtis]

Above are prime examples of all the gotchas......

Here is some advice I would give:

1. Take opinions from those that have not heard the subs you are considering with a lot of salt.

2. Take opinions from those not suggesting you listen to the subs and give more weight to numbers with salt as well. Nobody has come up with a set of defined measurements for judging how a subwoofer will sound such as Floyd Toole has done for speakers.

3. And take opinions in general with salt.....even mine.

[ebh]

while we're on the topic of subs i have a few general questions that some of you more experienced in the speaker world could help me understand.

First, the concept of room size to subwoofer. When Dr. Hsu tells me that for my size room the STF-2 isn't enough, what does that mean? Is it that it won't go loud enough (which I don't think could be true) or that the room size affects the ability of a sub to produce some of the lower frequency notes? Or something completely different? I'd love to understand some of the variables at work here.

Sort of as a corollary, I see people asking whether a big sub will really rattle walls and not work in an apartment, while others say there is no such thing as too much sub--just turn it down. Properly calibrated shouldn't a more powerful sub play at the same level as a smaller sub, just with less chance of distortion, more headroom and potentially more response in the lower frequencies? Again, I think you could get an STF-2 to a loudness that would piss off the neighbors but it wouldn't be in balance with the speakers. All subs are going to produce vibrations I'm sure, I'm just trying to understand whether there is anything inherent in a bigger sub that makes it worse for apartment living (except perhaps the deeper frequencies the bigger sub will reach).

I'm now thinking strongly about reaching for a VTF-3 and just being done with it--all this second guessing is frustrating. But I'd like to understand some of the dynamics at work before I make such a leap.

[curtis]

Dr. Hsu probably means it could not handle the room at louder levels. My Parents have a STF-2 in a large room and it is fine for them, and plays quite loud.....the room is about 25'x15'x12' and can not be sealed off....but a larger sub could handle it easier.

All things being equal, a bigger and more powerful sub can play louder, but you can always adjust the gain on the sub.....which in fact you will do when you calibrate your system....it won't over power the speakers. What a bigger sub will be able to do better is recreate lower frequencies.

When I was putting my system together, it was suggested to get the largest sub I could allow for in my space, and that my budget could afford.

[ebh]

dang, Hsu has a super-long waitlist for b-stock VTF-3 MK2s. Back to having no good ideas what to get, heh.

[ebh]

alright, i think i'm going to forget about really putting together a home theater sort of setup for now and will just stick with 2.1 for a bit.

I'm leaning towards the Rocket ULW-10 (the cheaper one). Other than the finishes and the small difference in box size, what are the differences between the ULW-10 and UFW-10?

My only other concern is that if the STF-2 wasn't enough for my room according to Dr. Hsu that the ULW-10 won't be nearly enough. But hopefully with music at least it will do well, and will give at least some rumble and pop with DVDs as well.

[Mag_Neato]

The UFW is 500 watts, ULW 350. The UFW has a single band parametric EQ to flatten the largest hump in your bass response, and allows for bandwidth adjustment. The ULW uses an auto-type EQ that picks it's own setting, and cannot be bandwidth adjusted. Also the UFW has the traditional Rocket finish with the piano black top and bottom. For a room your size I'd look at minimum the UFW-10, perhaps two of them. Of course, it depends on your preference for how loud you like bass, in which case neither one of these are going to give you high SPL's. They are tight and tuneful though, and that is why I like mine. It will kick for HT, but not like two of them, or even a 12" sub will.

You could always add a second UFW-10 down the road should you need to for HT use.