32 X 14 X 8 Living Room - 340's (2) + 10PB10

[Kurt C.]

I have the Panasonic S97 upscaling DVD player hooked up to a Pioneer plasma via HDMI and most movies look great - and thought it would be a good match because it says you can play DVD-AUDIO through the HMDI interface/cable rather than going the 6 or so cables for analog.

Double check to be sure that the S97 outputs DVD-A through HDMI and that the XR70 can accept DVD-A through HDMI. I seem to remember hearing somewhere recently that while HDMI is designed so you can output copyright-protected DVD-A material digitally, it wasn't possible with any of the currently available hardware. Hopefully I heard wrong...

[BGHD]

I'm pretty sure it can pass DVD-audio thru HDMI. This was one of the advantages of the s97s + xr70 combo. Onecall.com specs states the xr70 passes dvd-audio via HDMI, but take it FWIW.

IMO, that'd be a nice clean setup to match with some Ascends (aside from speaker cable, just a couple HDMI cables oughta do it). Nothing but good reviews about the SQ. I've only read the xr70s has a hard time driving inefficient speakers, so shouldn't be a problem with the Ascends. Not sure how flexible the bass management is though.

[sonnyt]

Wondering if someone could explain or have a good link to what "bass management" is. I am a little confused because I thought the cross-over in
the sub would take care of all the higher frequencies sent out by an amp/reciever?

I have heard for muti channel hi-res (SACD/DVD-AUDIO...) that bass management is essential??

Thanks, st

[BGHD]

Wondering if someone could explain or have a good link to what "bass management" is. I am a little confused because I thought the cross-over in
the sub would take care of all the higher frequencies sent out by an amp/reciever?

I have heard for muti channel hi-res (SACD/DVD-AUDIO...) that bass management is essential??

Thanks, st

Here's a good read:

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/...mentbasics.php

AFAIK, most people now use the receiver's high-pass and low-pass crossovers for bass management, rather than that on the subwoofer.

[Quinn]

Quinn,


BTW Quinn, did you read the Master's on Amplifier "Sound" article? I'd like to hear any logical disagreements you have so that we can put amp discussions behind us and move on.

I did.

"They were teamed up in pairs for comparison, and carefully matched as to levels and other parameters, so that any differences heard really were inherent in the different amplifiers. "

This is were I differ with them. We listen to an amp/receiver as a whole not with everything adjusted to sound like every other one. They wouldn't need all those adjustments if they didn't sound different as a total package to begin with. Yes, the amps may all sound the same if you can isolate them from the overall sound of the receiver but we listen to the overall sound.

This is very similar to the guys with the $10K ABX challenge but they get to EQ everything to match. It sounds different as a whole or they wouldn't have the EQ stipulation in their challenge.

[Kurt C.]

This is were I differ with them. We listen to an amp/receiver as a whole not with everything adjusted to sound like every other one. They wouldn't need all those adjustments if they didn't sound different as a total package to begin with. Yes, the amps may all sound the same if you can isolate them from the overall sound of the receiver but we listen to the overall sound.

The only adjustments that are made in ABX testing are to volume level. It appears that for some reason (a deliberate choice?), you don't seem to comprehend the point of these sorts of comparisons.

A receiver is really a preamp, processor, tuner, and an amplifier, all packaged into one box. If you want to compare receivers as a whole--fine. However, if you think that differences you hear between a reciever and a stand-alone amp are due to differences in the 'sound' of the amplifier and the 'sound' of the amp section of the receiver, you're mistaken.

So should we 'just listen to the overall sound'? If we follow this idea to its logical conclusion, we will have to listen to the WHOLE system at once, including the source, all components, speakers, and room.

If we want the best possible sound, it is far more useful to isolate and optimize each individual factor that contributes to the overall sound.

[curtis]

Kurt,
How do you listen to the only the receiver's amp section? You can not disconnect the pre/pro section from the amp section in a receiver.

If we want the best possible sound, it is far more useful to isolate and optimize each individual factor that contributes to the overall sound.

That is definitely one school of thought. The other is optimizing each component for overall system synergy.

[Kurt C.]

This is were I differ with them. We listen to an amp/receiver as a whole not with everything adjusted to sound like every other one. They wouldn't need all those adjustments if they didn't sound different as a total package to begin with. Yes, the amps may all sound the same if you can isolate them from the overall sound of the receiver but we listen to the overall sound.

The only adjustments that are made in ABX testing are to volume level. It appears that for some reason (a deliberate choice?), you don't seem to comprehend the point of such comparisons.

A receiver is really a preamp, processor, tuner, and an amplifier, all packaged into one box. If you want to compare receivers as a whole--fine. However, if you think that differences you hear between a reciever and a stand-alone amp are due to differences in the 'sound' of the amplifier and the 'sound' of the amp section of the receiver, you're mistaken.

If we follow the 'just listen to the overall sound' idea to its logical conclusion, we will have to listen to the WHOLE system at once, including the source, all components, speakers, and room. However, if we are serious about getting the best possible sound, I think you'll agree that it is necessary to isolate and optimize each individual factor that contributes to the overall sound.

Once we're done optimizing, we can just listen to the overall sound. If we did a good job with the optimizing, chances are we'll get so lost in the sound of the music that we'll forget we even have a sound system.

[Kurt C.]

Kurt,
How do you listen to the only the receiver's amp section? You can not disconnect the pre/pro section from the amp section in a receiver.

You are half right. Most 'mid-fi' or above receivers have "multichannel in" inputs. Using those inputs allows you to bypass the pre/pro section. Connecting the analog output from a CD player to those inputs lets you 'listen' to just the ampifier section. Using the same CD player and matching volume levels with gain control you can easily make a direct comparison with the amplifier section of another receiver or a stand alone amplifier.

Obviously it's a hassle and probably not worth doing unless you happen to be a person who has a hard time accepting the fact that all good quality amplifiers sound exactly the same unless pushed beyond their capacity.

Unfortunately, it isn't possible to easily bypass the pre/pro section with many entry-level receivers. In that case, it's wise to get a receiver made by a reputable manufacturer who is known to follow good engineering principles when building equipment. Once it is installed, you'll want to crank it up to your loudest preferred listening level to make sure it doesn't clip. If it does, take it back and get something with more power.

[curtis]

Don't forgot that most of us need bass management...so the pre/pro section needs to be used.