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Thread: what's your CD player?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradJudy
    Everyone has a balance that they choose to use between emperical and non-emperical factors when making a decision. As long as they are comfortable with the balance they chose to use, what's wrong with that?
    There's clearly nothing wrong with making decisions based on a combination of "head" and "heart".

    But...Eddie originally asked for informed opinions on whether the most noticible improvement in the sound quality of his system would come from buying a decent CDP + better subwoofer or just buying a really good CD player.

    The rest of this discussion can be boiled down to David and I insisting on a fair evaluation of different CD players. To legitimize a claim that one sounds better than another, one has to do a fair, double bind comparison.

    It would be silly for us claim that one car accelerates faster than another if they both do 0-60 in exactly 5.0 seconds, wouldn't it?

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt C.
    But...Eddie originally asked for informed opinions on whether the most noticible improvement in the sound quality of his system would come from buying a decent CDP + better subwoofer or just buying a really good CD player.
    True and I would tend to lean towards putting all $500 into the sub and picking up something like a Hsu STF/VTF-2 or SVS PB10-ISD. If you have a bad sub, in my experience this would be a far better use of your money than a new CD player (assuming your player is functioning fine).

  3. #53
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    Default Edster's budget CDP shootout results...

    A. Shop's system:

    NAD c372 integrated amp, Monitor Reference towers, some very expensive-looking flat fiber-optic-looking cables.

    B. Contestants:

    1. Sony CA7-ES carousel
    2. Pioneer 563 universal player
    3. Marantz 4300 carousel
    4. NAD c542

    C. Audition CD:

    I brought five or six, but ended up mostly using the Norah Jones "Come Away With Me" CD because the shop had a copy too.

    D. General impressions:

    Well I have to give it to the CDP-Skeptics: differences DO exist, but for me were quite subtle for the most part. Certainly not anywhere as night-and-day as there can be with speakers and amps.

    E. Specific impressions:

    The Pioneer certainly had the harshest sound to my ears...Norah's voice became shrill and flat, quite unpleasant. Quick elimination.

    The biggest surprise: my Sony ES was very very close to the NAD c542 in sound quality! After replaying the same 10 seconds of one of the songs on both machines, I did notice that the NAD had a slight edge in midrange smoothness and longer decay but they were neck and neck in every other respect.

    The dark horse CDP: the Marantz 4300 had a very interesting and distinct sound---crisp, kinetic (as in snap crackle pop), and nice punchy bass notes. I noticed that its volume level was noticeably lower than the others for some reason; I always had to increase the amp's volume whenever I switched back to it from another CDP.

    Of all of the CDPs I discovered that the Sony was the easiest to skip forwards and backwards within the same track. Ease of use and features were also superior.

    Right now though I am finding that the NAD's slight improvement in midrange smoothness and the Marantz's punchy bass and very interesting delivery not quite enough to override my need to upgrade the subwoofer.

    It is possible though that I should've brought more duplicate CDs of different musical genres, instead of basing my findings on just one CD. What do you guys think?

    Also the shop guy recommended a different technique on auditioning than mine, which I tried for about 10 minutes before going back to mine.

    My technique: isolate and analyze. I choose particular passages of individual songs (usually 10-20 seconds) and play them over and over again on different CDPs in quick succession at fairly high volumes (80db or so) and listen closely...often these are passages with sudden reversals, crescendos, etc.

    His technique: globally listen. He recommended listening to several songs on one CDP to sort of "get the feel" fo it and arrive at whatever emotional state the musical presentation brings out, then listen to those songs again on a different CDP, again going with your gut reaction to the music. Supposedly your unconscious mind knows the difference, and you just have to give it a chance to do its work by stepping away from too much conscious analysis, kind of like how sometimes you go to bed thinking about some problem and when you wake up in the morning you have a Eureka moment as the answer pops up out of nowhere.

    Very Zen-like, really, which I should like since I have been doing Zen meditation for the last couple of years---but to me it allows in far too many variables and also my knowledge that humans have an aural memory of about 3 seconds doesn't inspire much confidence.

    Also ironic, because in my own personal life and philsophical orientation, I have very much of a mystical perspective but with audio I tend to lean the other direction.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie
    Very Zen-like, really, which I should like since I have been doing Zen meditation for the last couple of years---but to me it allows in far too many variables and also my knowledge that humans have an aural memory of about 3 seconds doesn't inspire much confidence.
    Also ironic, because in my own personal life and philsophical orientation, I have very much of a mystical perspective but with audio I tend to lean the other direction.
    There are so many variables that adding a few more isn't going to matter. I like the shop guys approach much better and given your own philosophy you might be more comfortable with that approach in the long run.
    I tend to draw conclusions on speakers rather quickly but all the other components take days or usually weeks before I can say what works for me and what dosen't. For me, first impressions aren't usually a good indicator of long term happiness. I gotta live with something awhile before I make judgements.
    Whatever makes it all enjoyable is a good approach in the end.

    David

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie
    the Marantz 4300 (stuff deleted) I noticed that its volume level was noticeably lower than the others for some reason; I always had to increase the amp's volume whenever I switched back to it from another CDP.
    (more stuff deleted)
    at fairly high volumes (80db or so) and listen closely...often these are passages with sudden reversals, crescendos, etc.
    Eddie,

    Excuse me if this is a bit of a harsh reminder, I'm not trying to kill your fun but since we've all put a fair amount of time and energy into this thread...

    Please, If you are trying to make a useful comparison of two CDPs, at minimum you MUST match volume levels with an SPL meter!

    You have to match volume levels regardless of whether you do quick back and forth comparisons, or take the Zen approach. If you don't, the only thing you'll learn is how those Monitor Reference towers sound at slightly different volume levels.

    Preferably, you'll want match levels to ±0.1 dB but at least match to within 0.5 dB or better (which you can easily do with a $25 Radioshack analog SPL meter).

    P.S.--Despite my defense of a more scientificially rigorous method, I also do happen to like the "Zen Approach" for final equipment decisions. I believe that music affects us on both conscious and subconscious levels and am open to the idea that extremely small variations might be found through this approach that won't show up with ABX testing. However, I would still want to be sure that I'm not subcousciously responding to variables, like volume differences, that can be easily eliminated.
    Last edited by Kurt C.; 08-11-2005 at 07:20 AM. Reason: To improve the clarity and transparency of my post

  6. #56
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    I agree the 563A presentation is pretty dry and analytical. No warmth.

  7. #57
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    David,

    yeah I might ask for a home demo, he might let me take the floor model for a few days. I don't want to give up on the c542 so quickly after reading so much good press about it.

    But the differences so far really are quite subtle, with the exception of the Pioneer.

  8. #58
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    Kurt,

    actually I do have an SPL meter, just forgot to bring it in yesterday.

    > I believe that music affects us on both conscious and subconscious levels

    Well that's just it---what we call the "subconscious level" is particularly prone to autosuggestion and the placebo effect, which worries me.

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