SUBWOOFER Questions out the wazoo!

[curtis]

Oh....it has been reported that the 1220 is no longer in production, but will be revived in the fall.

[jimsiff]

Who is Mark Seaton?

Mark is a speaker designer and regular on AVS. He has some subs coming to market later this year. Go to the AVS Subwoofer forum and you'll find him there.

I was always told that heavier speakers = bigger magnets = better quality.

A bigger, heavier magnet doesn't necessarily correlate to a better speaker. The strength of the magnet is more important than size, as is the relationship between cone mass and magnet strength. I'm no speaker design expert, but there are a lot of factors that go into a quality driver.

What new Hsu and Rocket subs are supposed to come out in 2-3 months, and how might that change the marketplace? Has there been some big innovation in subwoofer design?

Hsu is coming out with a new series of VTF box subs, the VTF2-HO and the VTF3-HO. One VTF3-HO is supposed to have the same output as two TN tube subs. There will also be an upgrade for the VTF Mk II series that significantly boosts output. Rocket should be releasing a new 12" sub in the next couple months. It's been anticipated for awhile now.

[Quinn]

Okay I wrongly attributed the magnet weight to Mark Seaton when it should have been Brian Bunge of Rutledge Audio Design. Also upon reviewing what he said it was that heavy magnets are inefficient and need tons of power not that it was poor driver design being compensated for.

[ClutchBrake]

Clutch,

So what's the advantage of a tube sub over a box sub? I had the impression that people usually run the tubes in pairs, is this true?

Hmm, I wonder if the Behringer Feedback Destroyer could salvage my lousy JBL sub...

As Curtis said, no reason to run a pair of tubes. Unless you want to, of course.

The BFD is used to flatten the in-room frequency response of your sub.

[Nicholas Mosher]

Tube subs are generally less expensive than similar performing box subs because they require less materials and labor to produce. They also take up less floor space if you have a smallish room, and cost less to ship due to the reduced weight.

As Curtis said, no reason to run a pair of tubes.

Running subs in pairs reduces distortion when you're pushing them, increases headroom by up to 6dB, excites room responses more evenly, and helps to cut down on their directionality (from what I've been told atleast). This applies to both boxes and tubes.

I haven't heard the HSU subs in my room, but HSU owners tend to say their subs are more "musical" than the SVS offerings. Likewise SVS owners tend to discredit this and add their subs hit deeper with more authority. I've yet to see an honest independant review with spectral decays, and FR plots in the same room under the same testing conditions with the same tester. In otherwords I think most owners from both camps are full of wunderbar bologna.

I purchased and returned an SVS PB10-ISD, and now run an SVS 16-46+ that I will be upgrading to a pair sometime over the next week (hopefully). The best advice I can give is that whichever sub you purchase, get the BFD Parametric EQ, and an SPL meter. I would take a properly setup PB10-ISD or STF-2 over a poorly calibrated PB12-ISD/V or VTF3-MKII anyday of the week. An unequalized sub that is not setup properly is the largest cause of "boomy" bass (IMHO). I've listened to a bunch of subs at Hi-Fi shops, and the only subs that sounded "clean" to me had built in EQs such as the Thiel and higher-end Velodyne units.

I had trouble with my sub bottoming out using the "port-plugging" baloney. While your mileage may vary, I wouldn't put too much stock in that technology. If you push your subs (and you will in that sized room), get a sub that is tuned for the depth of response you want. If you want to go deep, get a 1646 unit from SVS or wait for the HSU tubes to come back in the fall.

Anyhoo, good luck.

[curtis]

My take on all this sub bologna.....

Just like with speakers, to understand and appreciate the differences, you need to listen to them, and preferably in the same environment at your listening levels.

Once you do, you will be able to throw out the bad bologna.

[Nicholas Mosher]

Measurements are definetly important, as opinions vary widely as to what sounds "clean", "deep" and "loud". Unfortunately most companies don't release measurements like Dave does with his speakers.

[curtis]

Yes...measurements are important.

But did you know that nobody has equated measurements to sound quality for subwoofers like Floyd Toole has done with speakers?

I'm not saying it is the same thing, but it is interesting that it hasn't been done.