SUBWOOFER Questions out the wazoo!

[Eddie]

1. Are most subs either better for music or for HT, rather than being equally good for both?

2. What qualities/specs/features would you look for in a music-oriented sub?

3. What qualities/specs/features would you look for in a HT-oriented sub?

4. I get the impression there is some sort of rivalry between SVS and Hsu on many audio forums, and that the SVS is said to be better for HT and the Hsu better for music. Agree/disagree?

5. Comparing specific models and pricepoints, it does appear that SVS offers subs that are bigger, heavier, more powerful, and go lower than Hsu within the same pricepoint. For example, the SVS PB-10 ($429, 20Hz, 60lbs, 300w) seems like a much better value than the Hsu STF-2 ($400, 25Hz, 44lbs, 200w) esp. if one accepts the conventional wisdom of weight being an indicator of quality in most things electronic. Or am I missing something here?

6. For a 80% music (jazz, classical, vocals) and 20% HT user like myself, just how good of a sub do I really need? My HT is 80% low-LFE stuff anyway such as "Sideways," "I Heart Huckabees," "Eternal Sunshine..." dramas/cult/foreign films, for which I often won't even bother plugging in the surround speakers (long WAF-related story on that which I won't go into, LOL).

7. Given #6, also factor in that my listening space is fairly cavernous (700 sq. feet) with 18 foot vaulted ceilings and the sub cannot be placed in any corner. So would the PB-10 or STF-2 suffice, or should I increase my budget?

8. Are there any other subs you'd recommend in this price range, given #6 and 7? I'm currently running Ascend 340s across the front, on a Marantz 5400, with an atrocious JBL e150 sub.

[ClutchBrake]

In a room that size I'd go for a bigger sub. Then again, I'd rather have more than I need. I can always dial it back.

As for SVS vs. Hsu. Eh. I've heard both. They are both a good value for the money.

The first thing I would do would be to choose the output you need. Next decide if you want a tube or box sub. Then look at what both Hsu and SVS offer and choose the one you find most aesthetically pleasing. As long as you properly calibrate the sub you choose you'll be pleased.

For my home theater I have an SVS 20-39 PCi. I have 340s for my L/C/R/Surrounds. Eventually I want to replace this with an infinite baffle subwoofer. The SVS does magnificently in the room (14x20x8) and is incredibly flat since use a Behringer Feedback Destroyer for EQ. The IB is just something I want to do.

Once I redo my bedroom I'll be putting a small sound system there. A pair of 170s and a Hsu STF-1 is the plan.

[Quinn]

You need to look at box size too. Bump the Hsu STF-2 upto PB-10 size enclosure(4800 cu inch v 6330 cu in) and lengthen the port of it you'd get similar performance I'm guessing. Also as Mark Seaton explained to me a large magnet is a sign of poor driver design being "compensated" for. So you need to see if the weight difference is in the box and/or elsewhere. You hear of transient speed as in how fast a driver can start and stop, do two quick back to back bass notes came out as two separate notes or one long one?

Watts- If all else stays the same it takes doubling the watts for every 3dB increase in volume. You put that 300 watt amp on the Hsu you'd get a barely perceptable volume increase of 1.5 dB. Design is much more important than watts for how loud a sub can get.

I'd wait 2-3 months until the new Hsu and Rocket subs come out and see what happens to the market before buying. Also see what hits the used market then.

I'm finding my personal preference for a "music first" sub is a sealed sub. My STF-2 when it was in the living room would rattle the windows but not shake the couch and get down to 21-22hz before rolling off. You've seen how open that space is to the rest of the house. For what you are saying about your listening habits. I'd lean toward the Rocket ULW-10(or UFW-10 used) and the Acoustic-Visions MRS10 in that price range. Both are sealed subs.

[Eddie]

Clutch,

So what's the advantage of a tube sub over a box sub? I had the impression that people usually run the tubes in pairs, is this true?

Hmm, I wonder if the Behringer Feedback Destroyer could salvage my lousy JBL sub...

[Eddie]

Quinn,

Yeah I definitely noticed the box size difference right away. Who is Mark Seaton? I was always told that heavier speakers = bigger magnets = better quality. On the other hand I know that Cerwin Vegas certainly weigh more than Ascends, and I'm sure the Ascends would toast them in a millisecond.

What new Hsu and Rocket subs are supposed to come out in 2-3 months, and how might that change the marketplace? Has there been some big innovation in subwoofer design?

So what is it about a sealed sub that makes it better for music listening? I have a sealed Infinity sub in my car, can't quite remember why I chose that design unfortunately. Does it favor accuracy and speed over SPL and lowness? I guess I don't really get your comment about how your STF-2 would "rattle the windows but not shake the couch"...is that a good thing or bad?

I'll look into the Rocket and Acoustic Visions subs too, thanks.

[Eddie]

BTW, what do you all think about the Outlaw LFM-1 sub? Someone on another forum recommended that to me; the website and reviews look good too.

[curtis]

The advantage a tube has over a box is its structural rigidity. It take less material and work to make a tube more rigid/less resonant than a box.

As for running tubes in pairs, I don't think that is true. It could be the fact that they take up less floor space, so people may be more inclined to have more than one.

[Eddie]

Curtis,

so are you saying that a tube probably provides tighter, more accurate bass tha a box? That's an interesting angle...would seem to be more appealing to a music-oriented listener like me.

[curtis]

No...I am not saying that.

I am saying it is easier to make the tube more rigid. A well engineered tube and a well engineered box, all things being equal, should sound the same.

That said, the Hsu TN1220 is probably the best sub I have heard....and it is a tube, and I have heard some box subs that sound better than some tube subs.

[Eddie]

Hmm, for some reason the Hsu website isn't showing their tube subs any more...