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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Ranger
I have not yet heard the NrT in person although I've done extensive research on it. I decided to wait on upgrading my Sierra-1s for two reasons:
1) I really needed to replace other equipment in the signal chain
2) The Sierras already sound very darn good
I would eventually upgrade (probably next year), but now I will hold off to see what Dave has cooking. I have a Horizon with RAAL tweeter. When I was planning the center channel upgrade, I originally settled on the NrT. Dave's measurements and feedback on the RAAL's incredible performance caused me to seriously consider the ribbon upgrade. I'm glad I did, it's really quite special.
Your amp I'm guessing? Amps don't make a huge difference in my experience... The NrT upgrade is exponentially more significant than having a non-overdriven decent amp and replacing it with an expensive one. Speakers basically make all of the difference.
But yeah now since a new upgrade was announced, might be a good idea to hold off on an NrT upgrade... (maybe Dave can weigh in on the matter to see if this is indeed the case? I'm guessing probably...)
Quote:
True, one could use a different midrange transducer. Perhaps SEAS or another OEM just finished baking a brand new midrange woofer with the exact sensitivity Dave needs for a 3-way Sierra-1. :p
I guess developing or modifying an existing woofer would be viable for for a minimum number of orders... As the NrT tweeter was used for the Sierra NrT upgrade and the towers, it makes more sense than a maybe very limited of custom midrange driver for a Sierra-1 upgrade... Costs add up especially with the cabinet, so maybe finding an existing mid (and maybe modifying slightly?) might be the solution...
Quote:
To be honest, I'm kinda out of ideas, so I probably won't say too much more...that is until Dave gives us another bone to chew on. :D
Fact is, there are only a few possibilities since this is a DIY upgrade. It has to be reasonably simple (for customers), but offer "significant" improvements. If you're right GirgleMirt, I'm sure there will be a lot of happy customers. I just haven't decided to toss the proverbial coin yet...
Heads: new tweeter/crossover
Tails: "SE" type upgrade
Edge of coin: mid-range upgrade :D :p :cool:
hehe SE for woofer might be tempting too... Not sure how doable/practical it would be, or the performance gain... But I think most modifications would require crossover modification, which would mean a crossover for the regular Sierra and one for the NrT... The mid cabinet too I would guess for the original Sierra, but at that point, a NrT upgrade might be necessary, so maybe would be the same for this 'SE' woofer upgrade...
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bigg35
Can somebody please explain to me, what, or if, are the new upgrades going to be for the Sierra-1's? There seems to be some joking around in this thread, but I can't tell who is being serious and never received an email from Dave regarding any Sierra-1 upgrades???
Did Dave really send out any emails with details about the Sierra-1 upgrades?
Does anyone know what, or if, the upgrades are going to be?
I think it's clear at this time that the upgrade will be pure oxygenated and cryogenic silver internal wire, these wires, unlike regular wire, allows to conduct electricticy without adding any sort of garbage or distortion, the result is a pure, oxygnated sound, free of any sort of garbage or distortion, easily audible by the human ear. Cryogenic really adds a new layer of technology on top of this wire, which makes it even more awesome and purer sounding than ever it could be without this cryo. This cryo isn't the regular type of cryo, it's done with very special cooling in a very special place that adds even more layers of information to this wire. The result is an even better wire that improves the sound unlike any other wire can improve the sound, really adds nuances and make a blacker background than ANY wire ever black backgrounded music... So black some have said it reminds them of a black hole, which is the name of the wire, black hole silver wire cryo wire, also creates a black hole effect in your wallet, if you can believe it... :eek: Surely the best 499.99$ you could spend for upgrading the Sierras, and the most awesome part, works with both original Sierra and NrT Sierra, even the 340SE or 170SE... Can be applied to ANY speaker... Hurry, quantities are limited... Order now and you'll also get a special green marker to upgrade all of your CDs by drawing on their edges... Really takes it to the next level. This is a level 1 upgrade, level 2 upgrade coming soon ;)
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Sierra 1's with RAAL's ... sweet!
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bigg35
Can somebody please explain to me, what, or if, are the new upgrades going to be for the Sierra-1's? There seems to be some joking around in this thread, but I can't tell who is being serious and never received an email from Dave regarding any Sierra-1 upgrades???
Did Dave really send out any emails with details about the Sierra-1 upgrades?
Does anyone know what, or if, the upgrades are going to be?
Bigg,
All these guys making posts are goofing around and speculating.
In all seriousness, all Dave has posted, is that he is working on something, but he has not said what it is.
No emails have been sent out.
Unless you see a post from davef, take everything that is posted as being speculation or a joke. Go back to post #35 in this thread to see Dave's original post.
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
^^^ What Curtis said!
We are just attempting to entertain ourselves;)
Until you see something from Dave himself take everything here with a grain of salt.
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
curtis
All these guys making posts are goofing around and speculating.
Guilty as charged! :D
Bigg,
We're just having some fun tossing around possibilities from a customer's standpoint. As curtis said, this is only speculation and fun. Dave will post an update when he can disclose more info, and I think we all understand that. :)
@ GirgleMirt,
I'll get back with you later tonight. Heading out for the afternoon and evening. ;)
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Ranger
I decided to wait on upgrading my Sierra-1s for two reasons:
1) I really needed to replace other equipment in the signal chain
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GirgleMirt
Your amp I'm guessing? Amps don't make a huge difference in my experience... The NrT upgrade is exponentially more significant than having a non-overdriven decent amp and replacing it with an expensive one. Speakers basically make all of the difference.
Yes, upgrading my electronics was part of the plan. I don't want to derail this thread too much by talking about my gear, but let me clarify.
I wanted to replace my mains, subwoofer, and center speaker first, because I knew the biggest improvement would come from that. However, I was using a $250 Denon receiver I picked up on clearance 5 years ago. That's all I could afford at the time and it fit my needs just fine. Today, however, it's a different story entirely: no HDMI, no support for lossless formats, not rated for 4 ohm loads, and certainly cannot do 75 watts x 7 into 8 ohms all channels driven.
Anyway, I debated for months on the best option for upgrade. Ultimately I decided to go with "separates" instead of a high-end receiver (I was considering the Yamaha RX-A3010 among others). I assure you that upgrading my electronics (pre/pro, amps, & DAC) from a low-end AVR provided nearly the same improvement as the speaker upgrade itself. It was literally night and day.
With that said, I completely agree with you that speakers are the biggest determining factor with sound quality, followed by room acoustics/treatment. However, electronics like processors and amplifiers are also important. The audio signal must travel through many devices before reaching one's ears. The weakest link in the chain, whether a speaker, amp, or DAC can affect the entire outcome. In other words, achieving optimal synergy in a given system creates a sum that is greater than the parts.
For example, most people would look at me funny if I dropped $2,700 on a pair of Towers, and then powered them with a $250 receiver. A more appropriate pairing would be a mid-range to high-end receiver, or a nice pre/pro and amplifier.
However, what I think you're getting at is this (correct me if I'm wrong): if one already has decent electronics, amps, etc., than any upgrades will be incremental at best. I believe this follows the principle of diminishing returns. This is one reason that I (and probably most of us here) believe in Ascend's mission. It's not about obtaining the last 5% of audio perfection (because that costs $$,$$$), it's about the 95% before it.
At this point in the game, I'm basically done with my system upgrades except for one other component I'm waiting on. I've got a nice balance of quality and performance in every area, and the bottlenecks are now extremely small. Any further performance gains with electronics will likely cost more than I'm willing to spend.
Oh, by the way...I just totaled up the cost for my two amps, DAC, and pre/pro and it's actually less than what I paid for my STC/Horizon with RAAL upgrade. I got all the electronics on sale or on clearance over the past two months. :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GirgleMirt
But yeah now since a new upgrade was announced, might be a good idea to hold off on an NrT upgrade... (maybe Dave can weigh in on the matter to see if this is indeed the case? I'm guessing probably...)
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. I'd rather just put the money towards the new uber performance upgrade instead of going NrT, and then upgrading again in less than 6 months.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GirgleMirt
hehe SE for woofer might be tempting too... Not sure how doable/practical it would be, or the performance gain... But I think most modifications would require crossover modification, which would mean a crossover for the regular Sierra and one for the NrT... The mid cabinet too I would guess for the original Sierra, but at that point, a NrT upgrade might be necessary, so maybe would be the same for this 'SE' woofer upgrade...
I could be wrong on the "SE" upgrade, it was just one idea I had to fuel the rumor mill. My thought was that it would replace the entire guts of the Sierra-1: tweeter, woofer, and crossover. Honestly, I'd be surprised considering how good the Sierra-1 woofer really is.
In the meantime, I guess I'll sit tight for Dave's next post and buy some of that cryo wire you mentioned. The nice salesman told me I could achieve oneness with the universe by purchasing the $8,500 1-foot interconnect cable. :p
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
merrymaid520
Good news Dave! I'll admit, I am bit nervous.....will this "upgrade" effect the Towers? I really cant swing any more A/V purchases for a while:eek:
Hi Brandon,
No worries :) ... this will not affect the Sierra Towers.
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Dave, it may be too early to reveal this..but will the 'uber' upgrade be in addition to the nrt upgrade or instead of? any timeframe on the big reveal?
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
natetg57,
Dave mentioned in one of his posts starting with post #35 that this would be an upgrade for the standard Sierra-1 as well as the NrT. Which to me means either a ribbon tweeter or woofer change.
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
davef
Hi Brandon,
No worries :) ... this will not affect the Sierra Towers.
Thanks Dave! Congrats on the Sierra-1 upgrade, I am sure it will be well worth it for those interested.
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Dave, I have a couple of questions:confused:
Will this upgrade cost more than the NrT upgrade?
Is this upgrade non-dependant upon which version we have, i.e. standard Sierra-1 or NrT?
Thanks;)
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mag_Neato
Is this upgrade non-dependant upon which version we have, i.e. standard Sierra-1 or NrT?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
davef
While I can not post details just yet, we have made a rather significant investment into the future of the Sierra-1 / Sierra-1 NrT.
The way I read this, Dave is saying it applies to both versions of the Sierra-1. That tells me a thing or two about what the upgrade could be.
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mag_Neato
Dave, I have a couple of questions:confused:
Will this upgrade cost more than the NrT upgrade?
Is this upgrade non-dependant upon which version we have, i.e. standard Sierra-1 or NrT?
Thanks;)
Hi Mag,
I am quite aways away from final pricing on this upgrade but yes, I would estimate that this will cost more than the NrT upgrade.
Quote:
Is this upgrade non-dependant upon which version we have, i.e. standard Sierra-1 or NrT?
Both will be upgradeable :)
More than likely, this will be an entirely new version of the Sierra-1 and will be called the Sierra-2. Sierra-1/Sierra-1 NrT will be upgradeable to Sierra-2 and this option is my #1 priority.
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Thanks, Dave! I was hoping the cost would be similar to the NrT but suspected that it would be higher.
Sierra-2? Now there's something to chew on!
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
logicology
It's probably either:
- Bluetooth radio for wireless connectivity
- Waterproof enclosure that looks like a rock for outdoor use
:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dark Ranger
Emphasis mine. I think the hint is the DIY option, not to mention the "uber performance." That does narrow it down based on what we know from previously mentioned prototype designs.
Yup, Dave knows how to tease us. :D
Might I add additional possibilities to logicology's list:
- internal Class-H amplification of 2000 watts into 8 ohms (>120 dB SN @ 1 watt)
- chameleon finish options to automatically blend into any decor
- nano technology upgrade for improved sonic performance when evaluated in the realm of quantum mechanics
Whatever it is, I gotta have it! :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
merrymaid520
Wow, you guys crack me up! Won't you all be dissapointed when Dave announces the "uber" upgrade to be improved binding posts:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mag_Neato
I got it!!
A direct/reflecting tweeter array! Finally, licensing has become available from the inventor of this coveted technology, B*se, and now we Ascend customers will finally benefit!!
So when do we get the one-note bass Acoustamass technology to go with it?;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kwarny
Did you guys not get the email from Dave :confused:????
The first upgrade is the stand for the Sierra. This will host the Rotary sub for the low frequencies. The sierra woofer will also move down here in a separated compartment and be servo controlled.
Uptop on the speaker cabinet, a new beryllium midrange will fit into the hole where the woofer use to reside. The last upgrade will be a plasma tweeter (have not read about this technology but from the looks of it, it should keep those pesky little fingers away after the first touch).
You guys creating all these rumors. :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mag_Neato
Hmm.....rotary subs, Beryllium mids AND a Plasma tweeter? All we need now are Kryptonite caps in the crossover and we will have a genuine "Super" speaker!!
C'mon Dave, admit it.....we figured it out!:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kwarny
Oh I missed a part of the email. :cool:
-"You can also send your fiance/wife's engagement ring in for a custom made diamond tweeter".
I just read through all of these posts... Very funny!! I really like the one with Kryptonite caps and sending in your wife's engagement ring to turn into a diamond tweeter :D
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
davef
Difficult to say at this point, within a year though. I still have to work out some details but I believe the most challenging part is done. We are essentially designing and building custom parts from the ground up and committing to large enough purchase quantities to take maximum advantage of volume discounting to keep price points reasonable.
To be perfectly frank, the success of the Sierra towers has allowed us to make a significant investment back into our company and you, our customers, are going to be the beneficiaries :)
Hey, Dave. Is this upgrade going to be able to work for those of us who already own existing Sierra-1's? For example, the standard Sierra-1 tweeter that is upgradable to the Nrt. Or would we have to purchase a whole new pair of speakers?
I would personally like to see this upgrade for those who already own Sierra-1's.
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bigg35
Hey, Dave. Is this upgrade going to be able to work for those of us who already own existing Sierra-1's? For example, the standard Sierra-1 tweeter that is upgradable to the Nrt. Or would we have to purchase a whole new pair of speakers?
I would personally like to see this upgrade for those who already own Sierra-1's.
See post #94!
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
ive been considering buying your speakers for a long time but now i might wait even longer gahhhhh
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elmo
ive been considering buying your speakers for a long time but now i might wait even longer gahhhhh
If I remember correctly, Elmo, Ascend has a very generous upgrade policy for Ascend speaker owners. I think he said this upgrade could be made for current Sierra 1/NrT owners, too.
Of course, you could just go for the towers which may never be improved upon. ;)
Just a thought.
Sheep
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JustaSheep
If I remember correctly, Elmo, Ascend has a very generous upgrade policy for Ascend speaker owners. I think he said this upgrade could be made for current Sierra 1/NrT owners, too.
Of course, you could just go for the towers which may never be improved upon. ;)
Just a thought.
Sheep
Dave did mention the upgrade will be available for us current Sierra-1 NrT, and NON-NrT owners, in post #94.
I am waiting for new info on this and check here regularly. Dave said he has a lot of finishing up to do on the details, so don't expect any real details in the near future. I would feel safe in ordering the Sierra-1's now if you want to enjoy them, rather than make yourself wait, knowing that whatever Dave is cooking up will be available as either a factory upgrade, or as DIY down the road.
As for the towers, Dave is always exploring ways to improve his speakers, so don't think for a minute he is "content" with his flagship!
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elmo
ive been considering buying your speakers for a long time but now i might wait even longer gahhhhh
Hi Elmo,
Since you're posting in this thread, I figure you have more interest in the Sierra-1 monitors rather than Ascend's other products. As Sheep and Mag offered, the upgrade will apply for any current Sierra-1 owners. This means that you can buy now, enjoy, and then upgrade later if you want every last bit of performance.
Dave estimates this upgrade to be available within a year or so. If you're in no rush to purchase, then by all means, wait it out. However, if you're itching to try out the Ascends, I suggest purchasing a Sierra-1 pair now. If you decide to spring for the upgrade later, the financial investment will be spread out. You won't have to pay the full price for the Sierra-2 (tentative product identifier) all up front. The current Sierra-1 is quite remarkable.
You're welcome. :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mag_Neato
As for the towers, Dave is always exploring ways to improve his speakers, so don't think for a minute he is "content" with his flagship!
Blasphemy! The Towers embody perfection in every way, so how can one improve on perfection? :eek:
Actually, I'm more serious than facetious here. This is one reason I love Ascend: the passion for "Reaching the Peak of Audio Purity" is more than just a motto. :cool:
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
I ve been reading this post and my thoughts about next phase sierra1 and nrt would be a new woofer. A Raal upgrade doesnt really make much sense to me mainly due to the price though. I personally think the standard tweeter are great, they will let you listen to music for a long time without fatigue. Also, it doesnt make sense for those who upgraded to nrt from the standard sierra to upgrade the tweeter again. I think Dave might be focusing on the midrange this time. Since this a bookshelf, it is perfectly ok to loose a few HZ down low and focus purely on midrange with a better construction. Low end could be adressed by sub.
Just my thought.
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Well, whatever it is I wish Dave could post more details about it:confused:
Anything......tease us Dave!!:D
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
OK, after some more thought about this upgrade, I am going to go out on a limb here and hazard another guess.;)
Seeing how this will be applicable to current Sierra-1 & NrT owners, as well as being available for direct purchase as the "Sierra-2", I am now beginning to think of this as a mini-tower, using the same drivers as the Sierra-1 & NrT but with a new, floorstanding cabinet which would extend the low frequency response as well as allowing the woofer, via the larger cabinet taking on more of the low end, to better handle the mids. Efficiency would most likely increase as well.
So how about it everyone......am I on to something?:eek:
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
I think the idea about upgrade sierra 1 and nrt, is that the current owners could enjoy without buying a whole new speaker. Dave had mentioned that the upgrade would be more expensive then the upgrade to the nrt.
If it is goint to be a raal tweetet upgrade, whats is the probability that people are willing to pay at least 700 or even more. What would be the probability that people are going to modify the internal cuout to fit the raal transformer plus changing the crossover? if is not a driver change, could it be possible to add a dedicated midrange cabinet on top of the sierra? i dont think this would yield a good setup. I still think a woofer change could be possible , with similar design as the midrange in the tower but are able to handle lower frequencies.
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mag_Neato
Well, whatever it is I wish Dave could post more details about it:confused:
Anything......tease us Dave!!:D
Hi Guys,
So sorry about the delay. I really wish I could post more details but nothing is 100% just yet. These are fully customized components for us and I am not comfortable posting public details until I have approved final samples and the parts are in production.
With regard to a timeline, I hope to be able to approve final samples within 2-months. From there I would estimate 3-4 months for production and delivery.
Great things coming... I promise :)
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Thanks for the update! :D
No worries, I think we all understand the prudence required at this phase in the project. Sometimes the close-knit community approach we have here makes it difficult to remember that you're still running a specialized business. It's just that we know something wonderful is in the pipeline. :cool:
Thanks for taking the time to post a little update for us. It is appreciated.
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
I know we are all anxious but good stuff usually needs time.
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Dave, don't sweat it. I know when the time is right you will give us the goods!
Sounds like early Spring to me?!!;)
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Thanks to everyone for understanding :)
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Just popping in at random to say.... Sierra-2??? :D :D :D :D :D :D YES!!!!!! Dave you da MAN!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!!! I'm okay. Just a little adrenaline. Whew! I love em little bookshelves. :D (happy dance happy dance)
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
j0nnyfive
Just popping in at random to say.... Sierra-2??? :D :D :D :D :D :D YES!!!!!! Dave you da MAN!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!!! I'm okay. Just a little adrenaline. Whew! I love em little bookshelves. :D (happy dance happy dance)
I think you are going to be very, very happy :D
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
davef
I think you are going to be very, very happy :D
Do tell, oh mighty speaker wizard!!:D
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
I have 2 home theaters planned for my future. :) "Beauty and the Beast." lol
Beauty: Beautiful TV, beautiful sound. Plasma-like picture with Sierra-2 and possibly a couple Rythmiks. Although that's debatable because the Sierra's bass is stupendous.
Beast: Projector with some gigantic high efficiency horn-loaded speakers featuring JBL 2226 woofers and a pair of subs with crazy output. (I can't resist lol). (This will sound beautiful as well, but a different type of beautiful.)
Heck, I'm still amazed by my CMT-340se's. So are my friends. I would have to say (and I've read this somewhere else before) that the CMT-340se is probably, pound-for-pound, the best bang-for-buck speaker you can get. I think it's the best 50/50 music/movie speaker you can get for it's price range. I sound like a fanboy/advertiser I know. Sue me. :p I don't care. I'm gonna go crank my CMTs. :) Mwahahaha
P.S. I have no subs either. Still sounds great. Very fun speakers.
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
would love to see a small 3-way bookshelf : )
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
parimento1
would love to see a small 3-way bookshelf : )
What would you consider small? It will have to be bigger than the current Sierra 1/NrT.
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Actually I was thinking of something similar in size to the NHT Classic 3 or the KEF Reference 201/2. Its just my opinion that most 3-way designs sound better than 2-ways, especially in the midrange, while not sacrificing bass as much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
curtis
What would you consider small? It will have to be bigger than the current Sierra 1/NrT.
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
I think a three way would be the size of the 340, at least according to Dave.
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Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?
Just popping in to give this a bump.
And hoping to see any kind of teaser from Dave!:D