True. It would just be another piece of data.Quote:
Originally Posted by curtis
I would imagine that sensitivity measurements are somewhat influenced by the choice of measuring device. In this regard, Dave F or any speaker manufacturer probably has a home solution beat.
Jim
Right, and in the forums, it becomes another piece of data that gets argued about and someone will claim it is incorrect or bogus.Quote:
Originally Posted by wesley63
Heck...we now have the reseller that is involved saying that there is something technically incorrect about the level matching issue and is going to post it on his forum. Plain ridiculous.
Umm... how is this any different than Dave bringing it up in the first place? Doesn't everyone have the right to voice and defend their opinion?Quote:
Originally Posted by curtis
Absolutely he does....but how do you end it all? What do you do to get the "definitive" answer?Quote:
Originally Posted by wesley63
Jim....what is your opinion on the matter? Where do you stand?
For me, the attenuation issue with series resistance, I have researched this issue on my own. What I have found agrees with what Dave has posted in regards to it affecting crossover behavior.
The speaker sensitivity, I hope to find out for myself. Until then, it is a "he said", "he said" issue.
The best way to compare speakers remains the same as always.....in person, using the electronics you will use them with, in the room you will have them in.
I attended the G2G, listened to some of the speakers during the 1st few rounds, then resigned myself to just listening and not trying to keep score. I missed the middle and final rounds since it was a beautiful day, and I got to know some of the other attendees. The comments on the different speakers varied from person to person, which just illustrates how one person's idea of what sounds good is not everyone's.
The in-home trial is the best way with the ID brands. Your room and equipment cannot be duplicated in someone elses house, or a B&M store.
If I had any of the speakers from the shootout I'd be happy. On their own, of course. Once side by side comparisons start, I would be forced to choose based on what mix of sonic ingredients tasted the best to me.
As the designer of the 340SE's, Dave is the authority on it's flavor, and knows what can happen when you add a pinch here, or a dash there.
From the context of you mentioning that there is no definitive answer and then asking my opinion, I didn't know if it was a rhetorical question or not. But I'll offer something anyways:Quote:
Originally Posted by curtis
I think that Dave, caring so much for his art, was very disappointed in the comments from some of the reviewers on the 340SE. The series attenuation argument, although true, does not really apply in this situation. I am sure that he will continue the search for an explanation.
As for the magazine article, I think that it was unfortunate that they put the numerical scores in the article without more detail as to how they were calculated. I have heard a few speakers and know what I like in my room, so I would have read the strong treble comments about the Acculine and shied away from it. Regardless of score, I would still choose the 340SE because I know that strong treble in my overly bright room is intolerable. But, your average person, doing a google search and finding the article may glance through it, not reading, except for "76.18 to 66.38, that ones better." This would be a shame. The comments of the listeners are comments of listeners: everyone hears differently.
Of course, the google search would also uncover the many, many great comments about the 340SE also. So in the end it may be a wash.
I assume that we are going to go through all this again after the Stereomojo speaker review comes out. I have no idea the conditions under which that test was conducted. I can say some people will be very happy and others very annoyed.
Jim
Assuming that Dave did his due diligence before posting his statement that his findings do not match Craig's, it means you believe that statements of one party are true and the other false. Am I fair in saying that?Quote:
Originally Posted by wesley63
Also, one company is using the scores on their website.Quote:
Originally Posted by wesley63
Quote:
Originally Posted by wesley63
Hi Jim,
Of course I have measured the acculines. As I have mentioned, I do my due diligence. I will not, however, post those measurements. I made a promise to myself a long time ago that I would not cross that line. While the urge to post is there, I simply will not do it, it crosses a line that violates my own integrity.
I started this business nearly 9 years ago to get *away* from all of that BS, to bring a level of honesty and integrity BACK to audio.
I have not made any performance claims regarding any of the speakers, I posted a technical summary of the effects of series resistance on loudspeaker performance, brought about by my own personal curiosity because of comments I read regarding the performance of Craig's 340 SE. If you look deep into the forum, I have posted many similar technical discussions, since day one. This is what I do, it is who I am.
I am not a marketing person or a salesperson, nor do I even consider myself a businessman and because of this I have often been taken advantage of... I have been told by many industry guru's that what I am doing with Ascend is crazy --- forget the integrity and make money; build everything overseas; why test every loudspeaker; why use expensive components; why not use "stealth" marketing; you should offer people free product to post reviews, sponsor events.. etc. etc. It goes on and on.. I live humbly, Ascend supports my family and a few employees and I am fully satisfied with that. We keep rolling on without any of those games and, I will never resort to that -- it won't happen and I feel good about it.
Well, I guess I won't go quietly into the night:-)Quote:
Originally Posted by davef
I think your business model is great and the technical stuff is most appreciated. It is unfortunate that marketing stuff seems to be everywhere some of which is dubious in my opinion. Keep up the good work and keep bringing great products to market.
When I posted that, I only had the evidence from the posts and believed that Dave was comparing the 340SE to the Acculine's by published specifications only. I didn't believe anyone was lying about their results. I was just assuming that they were different comparisons. Now that Dave has confirmed that he has taken his own measurements I am at a loss. Dave has taken his own measurements and I believe what he has observed. I also can think of no reason why Craig Chase would lie about attenuating the Acculines by .5 dB rather than the 340SE during the test.Quote:
Originally Posted by curtis
Dave,
Thanks for the response. I have enjoyed reading your posts on other forums very much. You often bring a very level headed perspective to some outlandish conversations. Your integrity comes through in your posts. It was one of the reasons that I have been drawn to your products. I am looking forward to listening to the Sierras in the near future in my home (still saving money and fighting the uphill battle of convincing the wife that new speakers are the number one priority in our lives right now.)
Jim