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Alternative to Ryhmik
I am here to ask what would be a great alternative to Rythmik? I owned the F12 with my Sierra 2 and I am looking for something different. I have nothing negative to say about the Rythmik. I just prefer a little more boom sound. I know it's not right to have it but I like the bloom/boom. This is for a 2.1 audio only system in a small 11-15 room.
Speakers are RAAL towers.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Have you adjusted the Rythmik...you can adjust the damping to give you more bloom/boom. Play with the extension/damping switches to see if that will give you what you want.
Also use the PEQ to give you a boost in the 60-100hz range.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
curtis
Have you adjusted the Rythmik...you can adjust the damping to give you more bloom/boom. Play with the extension/damping switches to see if that will give you what you want.
Also use the PEQ to give you a boost in the 60-100hz range.
I don't have the Rythmik anymore, as I sold it off a while ago. I have been using my Martin Logan Grotto. I wouldn't mind getting a sub that I can use either ported or closed. Maybe SVS etc..
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ematthews
I don't have the Rythmik anymore, as I sold it off a while ago. I have been using my Martin Logan Grotto. I wouldn't mind getting a sub that I can use either ported or closed. Maybe SVS etc..
Ahh...got it.
It will be interesting to see what you find to your liking because sub companies are mostly aiming for clean and accurate vs bloom/boom.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
What about the ported Rythmiks? I don't know if they are boomy but they might be better for stupendous theater effects.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
I would recommend giving the Rythmik LV12R a try...
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Hey ematthews,
I currently have the Aperion Bravus IID 10". I think it may have what you are looking for.
Here is a link from Audioholics and their review:
http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/bravus-10d
On the last page for measurements, you can see the bloom you're looking for.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
davef
I would recommend giving the Rythmik LV12R a try...
Thanks Dave. I know I spoke with you many times when I owned my last Rythmik. Maybe I just like a non accurate sub.;)
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dtsequoia
Hey ematthews,
I currently have the Aperion Bravus IID 10". I think it may have what you are looking for.
Here is a link from Audioholics and their review:
http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/bravus-10d
On the last page for measurements, you can see the bloom you're looking for.
Thanks. I will take a look.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ematthews
I am here to ask what would be a great alternative to Rythmik? I owned the F12 with my Sierra 2 and I am looking for something different. I have nothing negative to say about the Rythmik. I just prefer a little more boom sound. I know it's not right to have it but I like the bloom/boom. This is for a 2.1 audio only system in a small 11-15 room.
Speakers are RAAL towers.
I suggest reading the recent article over at Audioholics. It might help you articulate, for yourself and others, what you are really looking for.
http://www.audioholics.com/room-acou...ation-of-sound
Just don't start reading the forum posts that follow, as there are people that get into nonsense about bragging about hitting 120 dB + in their room, etc.
I am guessing that you might want more impact that you feel in some way that is described in the article. If that is the case then get a capable sub in your room and you can boost certain regions to give you the tactile sensation you are looking for, while still having an accurate sub with good transient response and low distortion, etc.
Is your room 11 by 15 sealed, or open to the whole house? Many newer homes have an open concept layout. For the room to be pressurized you need to take the entire space that the listening area is opened to. It could be your sub was way too small for the space.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ematthews
Thanks Dave. I know I spoke with you many times when I owned my last Rythmik. Maybe I just like a non accurate sub.;)
That is a big maybe. Maybe it is the setup. What type of music do you listen to? Since it is a 2.1 system, how do you do bass management? Phase and crossover adjustment is important. In particular phase can cause energy cancellation between front speakers and subwoofer. If you are looking for the kick drum bass impact, that is in the midbass frequency band (60hz to 150hz). That is different from "boomy" though. Boomy also means slow. So the key question how to you think the sound can be improved and we can help better based on that information.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dtsequoia
Hey ematthews,
I currently have the Aperion Bravus IID 10". I think it may have what you are looking for.
Here is a link from Audioholics and their review:
http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/bravus-10d
On the last page for measurements, you can see the bloom you're looking for.
Based on the measurements for this sub, I would not recommend it. It would be a significant downgrade from the F12.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
davef
Based on the measurements for this sub, I would not recommend it. It would be a significant downgrade from the F12.
Haha, Dave you are totally right. I just threw it out there. After hearing my father-in-laws LV12R...I have been dying to upgrade. I have the worst buyers remorse buying that Aperion. It was literally the day after the return period that I found out about you guys and Rhythmic...:(.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RythmikAudio
That is a big maybe. Maybe it is the setup. What type of music do you listen to? Since it is a 2.1 system, how do you do bass management? Phase and crossover adjustment is important. In particular phase can cause energy cancellation between front speakers and subwoofer. If you are looking for the kick drum bass impact, that is in the midbass frequency band (60hz to 150hz). That is different from "boomy" though. Boomy also means slow. So the key question how to you think the sound can be improved and we can help better based on that information.
I listen to Prog Rock like Porcupine Tree. Devin Townsend Project, Riverside, Rush. I am using a Preamp from Parasound.. The P5 which has bass management. I am looking for kick drum but also the impact of the bass guitar on low notes. A lot of my music is more bass guitar driven than Elec guitar. My last Rythmik was good, it just didn't seem to get loud enough. I am open to trying another one and get it right here from Dave. Any suggestions? I am running them with RAAL Towers.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ematthews
I listen to Prog Rock like Porcupine Tree. Devin Townsend Project, Riverside, Rush. I am using a Preamp from Parasound.. The P5 which has bass management. I am looking for kick drum but also the impact of the bass guitar on low notes. A lot of my music is more bass guitar driven than Elec guitar. My last Rythmik was good, it just didn't seem to get loud enough. I am open to trying another one and get it right here from Dave. Any suggestions? I am running them with RAAL Towers.
Go with the best, the FV15HP :)
What are your room dimension?
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
davef
Go with the best, the FV15HP :)
What are your room dimension?
Really??? Ported? Is it wise to do this with an audio only system? Can this sub run with the ports filled and make it non ported/sealed?
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ematthews
I listen to Prog Rock like Porcupine Tree. Devin Townsend Project, Riverside, Rush. I am using a Preamp from Parasound.. The P5 which has bass management. I am looking for kick drum but also the impact of the bass guitar on low notes. A lot of my music is more bass guitar driven than Elec guitar. My last Rythmik was good, it just didn't seem to get loud enough. I am open to trying another one and get it right here from Dave. Any suggestions? I am running them with RAAL Towers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ematthews
Really??? Ported? Is it wise to do this with an audio only system? Can this sub run with the ports filled and make it non ported/sealed?
Ported vs sealed is just a general guideline. It does not mean sealed subs always sound tighter than ported subs. Some sealed subs are just downright boomy. Your Sierra-2 is also ported. Does that make it less good than a selaed version? Do we suggest customers to plug the port to make it sealed? No. Dave had spend a lot of time to get the frequency response to the damping setting that he think is neutral. The decision of ported vs sealed also affects efficiency. In short, the debate btw sealed and ported goes beyond just labelling. What we need is find out what you really like.
Dave suggest FV15 becasue you mention the output is not enough. So we assume you just need more output and assume you play pretty loud. If you don't play loud, you can just boost the sub volume and that should give you the output. Another question is when you had F12, had you experimented with different damping setting and found what you liked? High damping sound of FV15HP is similar to the mid damping of our F15HP/F12. If you like the "full body" bass of F12 in mid damping or even low damping, then FV15HP or ported subs can actually give you that and at the same time plays 9db louder. It has this flexible damping control. You can create the type of bass sound you'd like.
Lastly, the midbass kick. I know you have said that is not what you are really after. But I think it may be and you just didn't realize. I once went to a demo of PA subwoofer and found that kick drum bass were much stronger and impressive. But as I listened more, I can tell the sound does not have the detail that we normally hear get from a home system. In addition, the midbass is so strong that it has become one-note and lack of texture detail. It is a euphonic form of one-note bass. The way to create that type of sound is 1) cut out low bass becasue low bass not only takes power and less audible, it distracts your brain as unnecessary nuances/background noise that you don't really care, and 2) boost midbass. Midbass is far more audible than low bass. Strong midbass fools a lot of listeners into thinking they hear more bass. To take advantage of that fact, there is a patent from SRS on how to make small subwoofers sound big bass. The trick is to intentionally create a lot of harmonic distortions in the midbass frequency range. The second trick speaker designers use when the bass is limited is to make the roll-off contour low damping. Low damping has a hump in FR before it starts to roll off. So on our F12, if you pick 28hz, then you almost want to use low damping. Again that is a trick to give you one note bass because low damping has more ringing.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
i was a hsu sub fan , and with my new house, it wouldn't pressurize the room.I tried a Mark Seaton sub, and have never regretted it.He has a upgradable path to add a second if you need it.The 2 -15" sealed enclosure ,will bring a smile.ht is fabulous !
I would like to hear the rhymik .i am doing a second room and the price of one is very attractive !
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
I am just going to buy another Rythmik from Ascend. This time a 15. Thanks everyone.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RythmikAudio
Ported vs sealed is just a general guideline. It does not mean sealed subs always sound tighter than ported subs. Some sealed subs are just downright boomy. Your Sierra-2 is also ported. Does that make it less good than a selaed version? Do we suggest customers to plug the port to make it sealed? No. Dave had spend a lot of time to get the frequency response to the damping setting that he think is neutral. The decision of ported vs sealed also affects efficiency. In short, the debate btw sealed and ported goes beyond just labelling. What we need is find out what you really like.
Dave suggest FV15 becasue you mention the output is not enough. So we assume you just need more output and assume you play pretty loud. If you don't play loud, you can just boost the sub volume and that should give you the output. Another question is when you had F12, had you experimented with different damping setting and found what you liked? High damping sound of FV15HP is similar to the mid damping of our F15HP/F12. If you like the "full body" bass of F12 in mid damping or even low damping, then FV15HP or ported subs can actually give you that and at the same time plays 9db louder. It has this flexible damping control. You can create the type of bass sound you'd like.
Lastly, the midbass kick. I know you have said that is not what you are really after. But I think it may be and you just didn't realize. I once went to a demo of PA subwoofer and found that kick drum bass were much stronger and impressive. But as I listened more, I can tell the sound does not have the detail that we normally hear get from a home system. In addition, the midbass is so strong that it has become one-note and lack of texture detail. It is a euphonic form of one-note bass. The way to create that type of sound is 1) cut out low bass becasue low bass not only takes power and less audible, it distracts your brain as unnecessary nuances/background noise that you don't really care, and 2) boost midbass. Midbass is far more audible than low bass. Strong midbass fools a lot of listeners into thinking they hear more bass. To take advantage of that fact, there is a patent from SRS on how to make small subwoofers sound big bass. The trick is to intentionally create a lot of harmonic distortions in the midbass frequency range. The second trick speaker designers use when the bass is limited is to make the roll-off contour low damping. Low damping has a hump in FR before it starts to roll off. So on our F12, if you pick 28hz, then you almost want to use low damping. Again that is a trick to give you one note bass because low damping has more ringing.
Great info. Thanks a bunch. I am going to order another Rythmik.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RythmikAudio
Dave suggest FV15 becasue you mention the output is not enough. So we assume you just need more output and assume you play pretty loud. If you don't play loud, you can just boost the sub volume and that should give you the output. Another question is when you had F12, had you experimented with different damping setting and found what you liked? High damping sound of FV15HP is similar to the mid damping of our F15HP/F12. If you like the "full body" bass of F12 in mid damping or even low damping, then FV15HP or ported subs can actually give you that and at the same time plays 9db louder. It has this flexible damping control. You can create the type of bass sound you'd like.
I use my L12 in a similar way. I keep it in "Low Music" for 2-ch listening because that is what sounds best to me in my room and then boost +3dB for multichannel HT via sub trim control in my AVR. It works well for both 2-ch music and movies in my 13x17x8 room.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RythmikAudio
Ported vs sealed is just a general guideline. It does not mean sealed subs always sound tighter than ported subs. Some sealed subs are just downright boomy. Your Sierra-2 is also ported. Does that make it less good than a selaed version? Do we suggest customers to plug the port to make it sealed? No. Dave had spend a lot of time to get the frequency response to the damping setting that he think is neutral. The decision of ported vs sealed also affects efficiency. In short, the debate btw sealed and ported goes beyond just labelling. What we need is find out what you really like.
Dave suggest FV15 becasue you mention the output is not enough. So we assume you just need more output and assume you play pretty loud. If you don't play loud, you can just boost the sub volume and that should give you the output. Another question is when you had F12, had you experimented with different damping setting and found what you liked? High damping sound of FV15HP is similar to the mid damping of our F15HP/F12. If you like the "full body" bass of F12 in mid damping or even low damping, then FV15HP or ported subs can actually give you that and at the same time plays 9db louder. It has this flexible damping control. You can create the type of bass sound you'd like.
Lastly, the midbass kick. I know you have said that is not what you are really after. But I think it may be and you just didn't realize. I once went to a demo of PA subwoofer and found that kick drum bass were much stronger and impressive. But as I listened more, I can tell the sound does not have the detail that we normally hear get from a home system. In addition, the midbass is so strong that it has become one-note and lack of texture detail. It is a euphonic form of one-note bass. The way to create that type of sound is 1) cut out low bass becasue low bass not only takes power and less audible, it distracts your brain as unnecessary nuances/background noise that you don't really care, and 2) boost midbass. Midbass is far more audible than low bass. Strong midbass fools a lot of listeners into thinking they hear more bass. To take advantage of that fact, there is a patent from SRS on how to make small subwoofers sound big bass. The trick is to intentionally create a lot of harmonic distortions in the midbass frequency range. The second trick speaker designers use when the bass is limited is to make the roll-off contour low damping. Low damping has a hump in FR before it starts to roll off. So on our F12, if you pick 28hz, then you almost want to use low damping. Again that is a trick to give you one note bass because low damping has more ringing.
Can you tell us a little more about your mid bass drivers ( FM-8) I have a pair of Raal Towers and (2) F12's and I would like to put a pair of FM8's in the room with them.. (12x 16 room) .. One on each side of the couch or maybe right behind it ... I listen to alot of Live concerts loud.. Though it might really add the impact I'm looking for ..Good idea...?
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wanger 714
Can you tell us a little more about your mid bass drivers ( FM-8) I have a pair of Raal Towers and (2) F12's and I would like to put a pair of FM8's in the room with them.. (12x 16 room) .. One on each side of the couch or maybe right behind it ... I listen to alot of Live concerts loud.. Though it might really add the impact I'm looking for ..Good idea...?
How do you plan to do the bass management? The key is to be able to move the signals between 50hz to 150hz from front speakers to MB modules. So it does take a bit of planning.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
How is the right way to do it? I have a Marantz 8801 as a pre ... Do I just run speaker wire from the subs somehow to the FM-8's ? .... What do I need to make it operational ..
.( My amp is Outlaw 7500) ...
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wanger 714
How is the right way to do it? I have a Marantz 8801 as a pre ... Do I just run speaker wire from the subs somehow to the FM-8's ? .... What do I need to make it operational ..
.( My amp is Outlaw 7500) ...
You will need at least two set of pre outs, one full range and one low pass and high filter for the front speakers.
I doubt you can do it on the 8801. But you can use the front preout for the FM module (Full range)and sub out for the F12. For speakers, i believe there are some high pass filter that you put in line with the wires.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Now that i think about it, you might actually be able to use just the bass management on the 8801.
Not sure if is a good idea to split your sub out to 3 though. You will need to use the adjustment on the sub woofer settings.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Thanks , I think I should give Dave and Dina a call .. I have 2 F12s and was going (possibly) with 2 Mid Bass Modules .. One on each side of couch .. What did you mean by "3".. Was you thinking I only had one sub?.. I would actually be splitting them out to 4 right? .
If its going to be a unwise move ,I am considering using 2 340s in the surround spots and taking my smaller satellites down .. I'm sure it seams like overkill, but video concerts (I think) would be killer ..If I go this route, I'm going with 4 subs...Well actually, I'm going with a couple more subs whichever way I choose to go .. I will pick up a couple F15HPs for the back of the room and then decide whether the mid bass'es are a good route or not .. This is probably the best way to put headphones in my living room ( LOL) for theses video concerts ..I already was talking to Rob... AKA FirstReflect, about setting up the 4 subs,,, but the 340s are something new I'm considering ..
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Yes i thought it would be three subs, in your case 4.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Would 2 LV12 work good with 340's lined up in front L,F,C in a 20x25 room or will I need 15 inch subs do the size of the room.
I don't want base that shakes the walls just want it to sound deep not punchy when it calls for it like in Day of Thunder, when the dragon talks in the Hobbit or the jets in Top Gun.
I was thinking of getting SIERRA-2s across the front but think I would need the Sierra Towers instead so I probably can't come up with the cash for the towers with the subs but the 340's make it more adorable.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
loopy
Would 2 LV12 work good with 340's lined up in front L,F,C in a 20x25 room or will I need 15 inch subs do the size of the room.
I don't want base that shakes the walls just want it to sound deep not punchy when it calls for it like in Day of Thunder, when the dragon talks in the Hobbit or the jets in Top Gun.
I was thinking of getting SIERRA-2s across the front but think I would need the Sierra Towers instead so I probably can't come up with the cash for the towers with the subs but the 340's make it more adorable.
I would actually recommend going with (2) LV12R over a single 15. Send me an email or PM and we can discuss in more detail regarding your room and Sierra-2 or CMT-340.
Thanks!
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Any one tried a sealed power sound audio sub with ascend speakers?
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Has anyone used both the SVS SB12-NSD and the Rythmik L12 with Sierra-2's, preferably in the same space and with the same gear? (Not at once.) I have read lots of glowing accounts of both subs, but for the moment I haven't read any relatively controlled impressions between the two. The SB12's have been on Black Friday sale ($400), so since that might evaporate at any time, that would be a factor that I should probably rule out. Not gonna rush a sub purchase!
This seemed like a good thread to ask and see if anyone with experience could weigh the strengths and weaknesses of the two speakers, specifically with the Sierra-2.
I would almost certainly not buy two subs up-front. This is my first rodeo and I am not gonna go big.
Please feel free to direct me to extant threads chez RTFM.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Octave
Has anyone used both the SVS SB12-NSD and the Rythmik L12 with Sierra-2's, preferably in the same space and with the same gear? (Not at once.) I have read lots of glowing accounts of both subs, but for the moment I haven't read any relatively controlled impressions between the two. The SB12's have been on Black Friday sale ($400), so since that might evaporate at any time, that would be a factor that I should probably rule out. Not gonna rush a sub purchase!
This seemed like a good thread to ask and see if anyone with experience could weigh the strengths and weaknesses of the two speakers, specifically with the Sierra-2.
I would almost certainly not buy two subs up-front. This is my first rodeo and I am not gonna go big.
Please feel free to direct me to extant threads chez RTFM.
Hi Octave,
I haven't heard both subwoofers. However, I too have had SVS and Rythmik towards the top of my list for subwoofers I am considering in my dedicated theater room. I had gone back and forth between the two over the past couple of years, but some of the recent posts by Dave and Brian have pushed me over into the Rythmik camp. Typically if you compare some of the Rythmik models to other competing brands, you get about as much output for those other comparable subwoofers. What makes Rythmik an especially good value, in my opinion, is that they are also servo subs at almost the same price. Here is a post from Dave that nicely sums up the difference between Rythmik's approach and most others that simply use DSP to shape the frequency response and others that also add limiters to make sure that it is not over-driven.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
davef
DSP is not comparable to servo. DSP is one method (actually, a lesser expensive method these days) for equalizing / contouring the subwoofer's response as opposed to equalizing by analog means. It means the LFE signal that is being sent to the sub is once again converted to digital - then various filters are applied to the digital signal, and then it is once again converted to analog so it can be amplified and then sent to the woofer.
Regardless of how good the DAC's are - each time an analog signal is converted to digital and then back again, information is lost.
Servo is a real time solution whereby the woofer sends a continuous signal back to the amplifier, so that the amplifier makes sure the woofer is properly tracking the signal being sent to it.
DSP does not have any effect on overall sound quality other than adding additional features and a simpler way of implementing eq. In fact, because of the additional A/D D/A conversions, it has a negative effect on the purity of the original signal being sent. These days, there are way to many A/D D/A conversions taking place in the audio chain. DSP in a sub would be more beneficial if the LFE output itself were digital.
I'll take servo any day of the week when it comes to sound quality in a subwoofer.
This was taken from the following thread: http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/sho...udio-18s/page2. I suggest you look closely at the posts from posts 19 to 35 where Dave and Brian and discussing Rythmik's approach vs. others.
Here is another thread where Brian goes into more technical detail about some of the differences between SVS and Rythmik. http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/sho...VS-and-Rythmik. I must admit that some of it is still a bit over my head towards the end, but I have a rough idea of what he is saying. My takeaway was that there are multiple kinds of distortion that are more significant than THD. SVS does an exceptional job at getting THD very low, even when the subwoofer is close to its output limits. But, it does this at the expense of other distortions that are a bigger problems when the sub is close to its output limits. Most other subwoofers don't even address these distortions at all.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
N Boros
My takeaway was that there are multiple kinds of distortion that are more significant than THD. SVS does an exceptional job at getting THD very low, even when the subwoofer is close to its output limits. But, it does this at the expense of other distortions that are a bigger problems when the sub is close to its output limits. Most other subwoofers don't even address these distortions at all.
I think this is a pretty good summation of that thread and of what SVS and other companies are currently doing. Rythmik really stands out in comparison to them because of all of the distortions they are addressing.
From what I see through reviews and other forums is that some people prefer the added distortion of the many subwoofers out there, since so many people like bloated, overly warm, overly-long decay bass. I have met far too many people, especially those in car audio, that don't care for accurate reproduction of bass, they just want a lot of it, and they can't tell added distortion from accuracy. I read head-fi quite a bit as well, and the few guys that get into dedicated stereo have a huge problem with most subwoofers, because they're so used to extremely precise bass that high-end heaphone systems provide. It's really hard to get bass as accurate as the LCD-4 and HE-6 and other legendary headphones provide it. To my ears, Rythmik really nails it.
If you want accuracy and tight bass when called for, Rythmik should always be at the top of your list.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sludgeogre
From what I see through reviews and other forums is that some people prefer the added distortion of the many subwoofers out there, since so many people like bloated, overly warm, overly-long decay bass. I have met far too many people, especially those in car audio, that don't care for accurate reproduction of bass, they just want a lot of it, and they can't tell added distortion from accuracy.
I think that you are right. I have heard this same criticism from some people about Ascend speakers as well. Some have described them as "dry", where you don't get as much sound as you did before on other speakers. But, if Ascend and Rythmik are giving you more accuracy, less distortion and less overhang because the drivers can start and stop more quickly, which allows you to hear more detail in the soundtrack, then that is generally something I would prefer. So in fact, the criticism of them sounding "dry" is not quite true. Often you end up hearing more than you did before.
I was happy with my Sierra 2s when I first got them and most times they sound fantastic, but there are some instances where I didn't like extra detail I was hearing. For example, on the intro song to the HBO series "Boardwalk Empire" there is a guitar playing. I had listened to this many times on my old Axiom speakers and never before heard the guitar player's fingers dragging and sliding on the strings and he plays. Usually something like this would new and exciting because it is something new that I had never heard before on something I was quite familiar with. However, for whatever reason I found it distracting. That was something that jumped out front and center and I found it kind of irritating. This is the only case I have run into where the extra detail was not welcomed though.
I'm reminded of a couple of reviews that point out these traits of the Rythmik subwoofers ability to be more clean and yet maybe not be as in-your-face exciting as some other subwoofers might be:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...3-ultra-4.html
A little down from the top of that page is a review by Jim Wilson he compares the Rythmik e15hp to the SVS sb13 Ultra. Here are a couple of comments that stood out to me:
Comment when listening to music: "In contrast to the SB13U the E15HP almost seemed weak at times but it was just stealthy, providing a more distinct and clear sound for the most part. I could have "thickened" it up some by choosing the Low tuning configuration, but I chose not to. You could tell a music connoisseur designed this one, because the accuracy and precision were uncanny."
Comment when listening to movie: "The E15HP went about its business in a more low-key manner, but it was no less potent. Deep bass was sneaky; just as you start to think it could use a bit more oomph you realize that the floor is vibrating."
Jim Wilson also reviewed the Rythmik LV12R here:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...er-review.html
Comment when listening to music: "I have a confession to make; I think music on the LV12R sounds wonderful. Why am I saying it like that? Because I've always believed acoustic suspension designs trump bass reflex when it comes to music (and I still do). Rare is the ported subwoofer which can satisfy my demanding musical requirements, but the LV12R did just that."
Comments when listening to movies: "...the depth and clarity of the blast was spectacular. I both heard and felt a nice deep rumble."
"Whether it was the Balrogs roar, the crumbling staircases or the foreboding rumbles that are the underpinnings of this scene all of it seemed to be in the proper proportions, with excellent definition"
Quite a long time ago Ilkka reviewed a DIY version of the Rythmik 12" sealed subwoofer (http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...html#post48248 ) and said the following:
"I don't want to say a lot of subjective comments about its sound because the listening room and personal preference affect a lot to it. I can say that its sound is slightly drier than what we usually hear with other subwoofers. That might be a good or bad thing, depending what kind of sound one likes."
Since I use my home theater much more for movies than music, I am strongly leaning towards a ported version of the Rythmik. I haven't heard anyone say that they didn't like the sound of the ported Rythmik subs with movies and all have said they even think they are excellent with music. So they are likely more clean sounding than most other subs, not having all of that extra distortion. But, I still want the slightly fuller sound that the ported Rythmik subs with have in comparison to the sealed Rythmiks to give you, even if it is just a smidge less accurate in terms of transient response. The comment from Jim, "The E15HP went about its business in a more low-key manner, but it was no less potent. Deep bass was sneaky; just as you start to think it could use a bit more oomph you realize that the floor is vibrating", was what I am thinking about specifically here. I would prefer to get the slight bit more oomph and have the floor vibrating without losing too much accuracy. I think that the ported Rythmiks or adjusting the bass damping factor on the sealed will likely give you this. The other reason I think I would prefer the ported Rythmik over a sealed Rythmik is that many home theater soundtracks can be quite demanding and it is much more economical to get output from a ported subwoofer (above the port tuning) compared to a sealed design. If my priority was music, I would definitely lean more towards a sealed Rythmik though, just for the extra accuracy and because I wouldn't need the extra output headroom.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quite the post N Boros! I agree with you on pretty much everything, as well as the reviewers. It's especially crazy when you think "hey I could use some more output" and then realize your guts are shaking when you turn it up. Getting used to that tactile sound is really interesting. You expect the bloat and warm-ness to be there, so when it isn't, it takes you a minute to realize what just happened.
This reminds me of a post in the AVS forum, in the Ascend Acoustics thread, where a guy was used to his B&W speakers for many years and just couldn't get used to the way the Sierra-2 sounded because he was expecting the "smile shaped" EQ curve that B&W generally adheres to. He just couldn't live without it. The accuracy felt dry to him in the same way you mentioned. I've always been going for increasingly accurate and neutral sound, so that preference just didn't make any sense to me, but hey, to each their own.
I have dual F12's and use them 99% for movies. I went with sealed because it was just always something I've wanted since I've become addicted to musical and movie accuracy. In addition, you actually get more extension with a sealed design. The F12's can get down to subsonic frequencies with the rumble filter off. I'm also moving into a small theater room, so I don't need that much output. Even in the largish-open room that I'm in now, I still run them at half volume and down a few dB in Audyssey. I could see there being a problem if I only used one sub, but with two it's a dream.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
And this is why Jim now owns a JTR S1...just saying boys...:).
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
billy p
And this is why Jim now owns a JTR S1...just saying boys...:).
That JTR seems like a good value.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
If you ask Jim what he listens to, his reply has always been the unit he currently reviews. So for Jim, the definition of "owning" a sub is different from listening to it every day. My customers often ask me which model do I have in my system. My answer is similar to Jim: the one that I'd like to get long term evaluation of the sound characteristics.
BTW, we do have a plan to introduce F18HP. It is not going to have the same output as S1, but we can offer all 3 different finishes. The price will be $200 more expensive than F15HP. The enclosure will be heavily braced.
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Re: Alternative to Ryhmik
I appreciate the interesting replies, gents.
Sub acquisition is inevitable, though I might be upgrading some of my electronics first. I will be asking some noob questions about that elsewhere here, I'm sure.