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Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
I am running 5.1 system using Pioneer SC55. Watching TV, Movies, Music.
Center - Sierra Horizon (RAAL)
Left/Right - Sierra 2EX
Surround - Old Pyle in wall speakers.
Sub - PSA Audio F15SE.
I have no issues with the setup. I guess soon its time for a AVR upgrade. Here are the options:
Option1: Keep the Pioneer SC55, add an external amp, and upgrade the Pre later
Option2: Buy another AVR.
A couple of years ago my AVR stopped working with ue22 error. Onkyo fixed it for free.
Option1- Emotiva XPA5, Outlaw5000x, Monolith
Option2 - No idea yet
The equipment go into an enclosed space. For the airflow, I can open the door of the enclosed space, otherwise, no option. I never had any heating issue with Pioneer SC55. Nothing will be placed on top the the new equipment with at-least 5 to 6 inch of space above.
Thanks for the suggestions!
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Budget for new AVR? What are you looking to improve?
My thoughts on the AMP - I'd place the Monolith as first option, Outlaw as 2nd, Emotiva last. Have you also considered class D? Some good options there (D-Sonic, VTV), although with RAALS, there have been recommendations to stay with a good A/B amp.
That said, I believe your Pioneer is based on Class D amplification. So, you may be fine with Class D and RAALs if it's not bothered you to date. Also, class D likely explains why no heating issue with the Pioneer. The 3 amps you listed will generate more heat.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
I guess the goal is to improve the overall dynamic. At times, while watching movies and listening to music, I feel the sound is overly bright. Over time, I got used to it, but now and then it feels tiring. I don't know if this is because of the particular receiver I use or class D characteristic in general.
The goal is to build a system that I can live with for another ten years, so the budget is flexible.
I don't think I will get a decent AVR under $3000.
With pre/pro, I guess I can stagger the purchase overtime to save the upfront cost.
The Outlaw5000x or 7000x looks very promising.
My only concern with heat if the thing is going to burn down the house or stopped working altogether.
I guess I can take a chance with Outlaw and return if heating becomes an issue, the return policy is 30 days, which is enough time to test the equipment.
Thoughts?
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Do you use MCACC on the Pioneer? Have you compared the sound with it on vs off?
I would also recommend the Monolith. It is a solid A/B class amp built by ATI, and should last many years.
I have an ATI 1505, which is an ancestor to the Monolith amps. I bought it used about 15 years ago. Still solid as ever. I always think about replacing it, but don't have a good reason to. I will probably replace it with a Monolith when I finally go to Atmos.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
I have used MCACC. To be honest, it never worked for me. I ended up doing manual adjustments. How do you turn the MCACC off? I will give it a try.
Yeah, I like to invest in an amp that can last many years.
not now, but any suggestions on pre?
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Suggest you look at some cooling for your enclosed area. Something like this:
https://www.acinfinity.com/component...SABEgKH1_D_BwE
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
If you'd like to stick with a one box solution and can swing the budget, look at the new Arcam AVR10 & AVR20. I had a chance to hear the AVR20 and it is impressive. Built like a tank. Dirac live room correction.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Also, you CAN get a decent AVR for under $3k. The Denon AVR X3600H was tested as excellent. (but it seems no longer available. Other similar models may be as good, not sure)
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Agree with QMAN - cooling is a good idea. They also make less expensive models, like single fans with a manual switch. I use 4 of these in my entertainment center - 1 with main tube amp, 1 with phono stage, 1 with MRX720, 1 with power conditioner/sugar cube (mainly because I've not yet got an extension to put it on the shelf with my surround/atmos channel amp. Work really well - even with the tube amp.
ARCAM are nice, as is Denon. Dirac is the better room correction, though. I'll add Anthem as a recommendation. If you are staying 5.1, MRX520. Also has preouts so can use external amplification. Usually have 20% off a couple of times a year. Rumor is they are coming out with new models later this year, so may be able to pick up a current model used at a discount. Anthem's room correction is nearly as good as DIRAC based on comments from folks who have used both.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
I have had Dirac and now have Anthem's ARC/Genesis. I can attest that in my system, in the very least, they are comparable. I was worried about giving up Dirac, but that is no longer the case.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
But......
If you end up with a Denon, etc. that has Audyssey XT32 you MUST purchase the editor app for your mobile device. I took the opportunity to use it with my Denon X3300 and it definitely made things better with its ability to let you tweak the EQ curves and other attributes.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Quote:
Originally Posted by
parmodmehta
not now, but any suggestions on pre?
I love my Anthem AVM 60.
Like racrawford has been teasing me and saying, Anthem's new A/V receivers/processors look to be just around the corner, so a deal on the current stuff might possibly be available at good prices. I was able to get my Anthem during one of those 20% off sales.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mag_Neato
But......
If you end up with a Denon, etc. that has Audyssey XT32 you MUST purchase the editor app for your mobile device. I took the opportunity to use it with my Denon X3300 and it definitely made things better with its ability to let you tweak the EQ curves and other attributes.
They really need to make that app free.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Quote:
Originally Posted by
curtis
I love my Anthem AVM 60.
Like racrawford has been teasing me and saying, Anthem's new A/V receivers/processors look to be just around the corner, so a deal on the current stuff might possibly be available at good prices. I was able to get my Anthem during one of those 20% off sales.
You know you want a new one when it comes out :-)
Just kidding, Curtis.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Quote:
Originally Posted by
parmodmehta
I guess the goal is to improve the overall dynamic. At times, while watching movies and listening to music, I feel the sound is overly bright. Over time, I got used to it, but now and then it feels tiring. I don't know if this is because of the particular receiver I use or class D characteristic in general.
The goal is to build a system that I can live with for another ten years, so the budget is flexible.
I don't think I will get a decent AVR under $3000.
With pre/pro, I guess I can stagger the purchase overtime to save the upfront cost.
The Outlaw5000x or 7000x looks very promising.
My only concern with heat if the thing is going to burn down the house or stopped working altogether.
I guess I can take a chance with Outlaw and return if heating becomes an issue, the return policy is 30 days, which is enough time to test the equipment.
Thoughts?
You could always try the Outlaw for 30 days. Not a bad looking amp. Outlaw has changed their site quite a bit. I seem to recall the 5000 may have had an internal fan in pics on the old site. Not sure who makes the Outlaw model now. Kind of reminds me of the old UPA series from Emotiva (except for the fan question as the UPA's were silent).
I still like the Monolith better, though. A bit more money, but made by ATI, who are well regarded company for amps. also 30 day trial period and 5 year warranty (ATI branded are generally 7). Designed and assembled in the USA.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
In the past, I went cheap and ending up buying speakers that I didn't want to buy. I sold them but ended up losing money. I ended up spending more money than what the ascend would have cost me in the beginning.
Monoprice sound's like a good investment. It looks like a significant upgrade over my current setup, and I think I will be happy with the purchase for a long time.
Heating is a concern for me. I am going to talk with monoprice next week to go over my setup. A possible suggestion from this forum is to use AIRCOM T10 to reduce the heat.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
The t10 is nice.
You could also try something like their stand-alone fans. You could probably lay it on top of the component so it pulls heat out (blows up) to the top of your enclosure. They work pretty good - particularly sucking heat from a tube amp out of my entertainment center.
https://www.acinfinity.com/component...an-dual-120mm/
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Quote:
Originally Posted by
racrawford65
You know you want a new one when it comes out :-)
Just kidding, Curtis.
Ha!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
racrawford65
You could always try the Outlaw for 30 days. Not a bad looking amp. Outlaw has changed their site quite a bit. I seem to recall the 5000 may have had an internal fan in pics on the old site. Not sure who makes the Outlaw model now. Kind of reminds me of the old UPA series from Emotiva (except for the fan question as the UPA's were silent).
I still like the Monolith better, though. A bit more money, but made by ATI, who are well regarded company for amps. also 30 day trial period and 5 year warranty (ATI branded are generally 7). Designed and assembled in the USA.
FWIW, I believe Outlaw’s bigger amps are still made by ATI too.
If I had the money, I think I would go for the Monoprice HTP-1 pre/pro, and a Monolith amp. It’s too bad they don’t have a package deal.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Quote:
Originally Posted by
curtis
Ha!
FWIW, I believe Outlaw’s bigger amps are still made by ATI too.
If I had the money, I think I would go for the Monoprice HTP-1 pre/pro, and a Monolith amp. It’s too bad they don’t have a package deal.
I think you are correct in that the bigger amps are still made by ATI.
Now, who's kidding who :-) ?. I have my eye on the HTP-1 also. Of all the 16+ channel pre-pros, seems to be the most stable and has lots of support from Monolith/ATI (who I believe makes it) in working out any bugs.
Set for amps at the moment, although I have considered either a Monolith or D-Sonic in 7 or 9 channels.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Quote:
Originally Posted by
curtis
Ha!
FWIW, I believe Outlaw’s bigger amps are still made by ATI too.
If I had the money, I think I would go for the Monoprice HTP-1 pre/pro, and a Monolith amp. It’s too bad they don’t have a package deal.
If I HAD the money, I'd go with a Bryston SP4! ;)
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Qman
If I HAD the money, I'd go with a Bryston SP4! ;)
Nice unit, but a pretty hefty price jump to get that fancy casework and long warranty!
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mag_Neato
Nice unit, but a pretty hefty price jump to get that fancy casework and long warranty!
Yeah...for $17k...it opens up another world of options, and I also believe it shares the same chassis/design as some other processors that cost a lot less.
Bryston has great warranties, but how long of a warranty do you need on a pre/pro. The 20 year warranty on their amps is awesome!
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Quote:
Originally Posted by
racrawford65
I think you are correct in that the bigger amps are still made by ATI.
Now, who's kidding who :-) ?. I have my eye on the HTP-1 also. Of all the 16+ channel pre-pros, seems to be the most stable and has lots of support from Monolith/ATI (who I believe makes it) in working out any bugs.
Set for amps at the moment, although I have considered either a Monolith or D-Sonic in 7 or 9 channels.
Yes...the HTP-1 is also made by ATI. Support on pre/pros and AVRs is important...as you know! (cough...Emotiva...cough).
I used to be all-in with class D, especially when thinking multi-channel. Nowadays, I am kind of wavering, although I would like to experience an amp based on nCore.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
ATI AT52XNC is another one. D-class with very good reviews for $2995.00 at amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Amplifier-Tec...-items&sr=1-13
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Quote:
Originally Posted by
parmodmehta
Nice! That is an nCore based amp.
Geez...ATI sells on Amazon?
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
The ATI class D's are nice and use torroidial transformers. There two 2-channel on usaudiomart.com for sale. This one is a steal. I'm tempted but must resist as just ordered 2nd Rythmik a few days ago.
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/...3-ati-at522nc/
I'd like to hear an nCore amp as well. VTV amplifiers have several models at reasonable prices, as does Nord. I've heard a D-Sonic with Paschal modules and they sound fantastic. I've read that some think these are better than the nCores.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Quote:
Originally Posted by
racrawford65
The ATI class D's are nice and use torroidial transformers. There two 2-channel on usaudiomart.com for sale. This one is a steal. I'm tempted but must resist as just ordered 2nd Rythmik a few days ago.
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/...3-ati-at522nc/
I'd like to hear an nCore amp as well. VTV amplifiers have several models at reasonable prices, as does Nord. I've heard a D-Sonic with Paschal modules and they sound fantastic. I've read that some think these are better than the nCores.
I try not to look at ads...hard to resist some times.
Off-topic...
Did you see the pair of Towers w/RAALs on sale on Audiomart a few weeks ago for $1300/pr???
After communicating with the seller, long story short, when I decided to pull the trigger, he had local buyer visiting him that night, and sold them. Crazy!!
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Yes, I did see them. Sorry you missed the opportunity. I missed a deal on a Soundsmith Hyperion about a month ago on audiogon. Low hour 9K cartridge for under 3k. Plus Soundsmith rebuilds for 850 when needed. Should have pulled the trigger, but with a new in the box Paua that I got for 1/2 retail, too much indecision. Now I'm tempted to pick up that ATI amp. Even if I don't use it, could probably flip it for more than they are asking..... but saving up for next upgrade (VPI Fatboy) after the next sub gets here.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Quote:
Originally Posted by
curtis
I try not to look at ads...hard to resist some times.
Off-topic...
Did you see the pair of Towers w/RAALs on sale on Audiomart a few weeks ago for $1300/pr???
After communicating with the seller, long story short, when I decided to pull the trigger, he had local buyer visiting him that night, and sold them. Crazy!!
This is how I purchased my RAAL Sierra Horizon. Local craigslist, and I think paid $700.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Quote:
Originally Posted by
racrawford65
Yes, I did see them. Sorry you missed the opportunity. I missed a deal on a Soundsmith Hyperion about a month ago on audiogon. Low hour 9K cartridge for under 3k. Plus Soundsmith rebuilds for 850 when needed. Should have pulled the trigger, but with a new in the box Paua that I got for 1/2 retail, too much indecision. Now I'm tempted to pick up that ATI amp. Even if I don't use it, could probably flip it for more than they are asking..... but saving up for next upgrade (VPI Fatboy) after the next sub gets here.
Excellent! A lot of that is greek to me as I am not into vinyl. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
parmodmehta
This is how I purchased my RAAL Sierra Horizon. Local craigslist, and I think paid $700.
Wow...Craigslist? That's amazing!
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
I ordered the new Outlaw 5000x. During the 30 day trial, if heating is an issue. I can return. I have to pay return shipping. But I guess that's ok.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Quote:
Originally Posted by
parmodmehta
I ordered the new Outlaw 5000x. During the 30 day trial, if heating is an issue. I can return. I have to pay return shipping. But I guess that's ok.
Cool.
What made you go in that direction?
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Few reasons:
1. Outlaw 5000x is a newer version of 5000, which got great reviews. So I think it's a known quantity. I guess so is Monolith
2. Monolith is not available until sometime in August. So in between that time, I can at least test the idea of using an external app, which is a new concept for me, for ~$65, not a bad investment I think
3. 5000x weigh <50Lb. Good for my back
4. I will learn about the heating issues, so in case I need to return Outlaw and buy Monolith. I am better educated.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Ahh. Got it!
You might want to throw in comparing two different amps, along with the amps in the AVR, to see what differences you hear, if any.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
parmodmehta - let us know what you find out.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Awesome parmodmehta, it's (to me anyway) a big jump into this tier of audio. (and, in my case, so worth it!)
We would all love to hear your impressions, and thanks for sharing the journey!
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
So I have a new Outlaw 5000x hooked up in my setup. My immediate feedback was wow! Depending on the material, I hear the day and night difference between Pioneer SC55 internal amps and Outlaw 5000x, especially music. I never knew Sierra 2EX could sound this good.
The sound quality is dynamic and full. Before watching movies high were too high, and lows were too lows, problem solved!
The most surprising of all the Outlaw 5000x runs cool, very cool, in-fact believe it not cooler than my class D Pioneer SC55.
Now, for someone like me, who is new to pre/pro, it's not an easy setup, what made it more difficult is my setup (see the attached pics). Here's are some of the unresolved issues:
Ground loop. I was not aware of the ground loop issue. It took me a while to isolate the problem. The problem is the coaxial cable for cable TV. I have ordered an isolation transformer to fix the hum issue.
Binding posts on the outlaw are good. But I think they are bit loose, especially for the front right speaker, maybe I need better banana plugs.
12v Trigger doesn't work. Not sure it's an issue with the outlaw unit or my AVR.
Overall, I am happy with the setup. So the question is
Keep it? Or return and wait for Monolith 5-channel?
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Outlaw or Monolith really up to you and your budget. For whatever reason, can't seem to open the Outlaw page for this amp but believe it is around 600. The Monolith 5 channel is 1500, but 80 wpc more. So a bit more headroom, but do you need it?
May be a setting in your AVR to turn on the trigger. Also, may need a mono trigger cable and not stereo. If amp came with a trigger cable, use that one.
Yes, cable boxes are notorious for hums and other issues.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
I think the outlaw site is down. 5000x is indeed 600. I don't know if I need the headroom unless I guess I hear it! Monolith is undoubtedly within the budget.
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Re: Recommendation for new AVR, Pre/Pro
Well, I believe Outlaw has a 30 day return policy. Maybe you can try the Monolith before having to send the Outlaw back. Decide if it's any improvement over the Outlaw. Send one or the other back based on your auditions.