Dual E15HP in 5200 ft3 space

Hi-

I'm looking for a sub solution for my 2-channel-only setup. My room is unfortunate, though. It's an open space with a partial wall (and a stairwell!) that I estimate results in about 5200 cu.ft. I'm considering dual E15HP subs to replace my current single ML Dynamo 700. I listen to all kinds of music, but some is definitely missing more than others, in terms of bass in my current setup. My system is far from high end, but I do expect it to sound great (Mac Mini > Schiit Bifrost > Bryston B100 > custom Tekton Lore Reference towers).

I'd like to make a buy-once-and-love-it purchase, but I'm concerned that dual E15's might not be enough? Anyone have any experience with dual E15s in this size of a room? Or recommendations for alternatives?

Any assistance would be appreciated.

And I searched. Honest. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bluehi

Hi-

I'm looking for a sub solution for my 2-channel-only setup. My room is unfortunate, though. It's an open space with a partial wall (and a stairwell!) that I estimate results in about 5200 cu.ft. I'm considering dual E15HP subs to replace my current single ML Dynamo 700. I listen to all kinds of music, but some is definitely missing more than others, in terms of bass in my current setup. My system is far from high end, but I do expect it to sound great (Mac Mini > Schiit Bifrost > Bryston B100 > custom Tekton Lore Reference towers).

I'd like to make a buy-once-and-love-it purchase, but I'm concerned that dual E15's might not be enough? Anyone have any experience with dual E15s in this size of a room? Or recommendations for alternatives?

Any assistance would be appreciated.

And I searched. Honest. :)

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I remember seeing someone on AVS comparing the E15 (maybe the HP) with the SVS SB13 Ultra. I did a quick google search and couldn't find it. It was a subjective review only with no measurement, but I seem to remember the reviewer thinking the two were quite close in performance. It doesn't matter really. Anyways, the SVS SB13 Ultra is likely similar in performance one would expect to the Rythimk E15HP. The reason I bring this up is because the SVS subwoofer was meauresed in detail by Josh Ricci on www.data-bass.com and a detailed writeup on Audioholics. They gave it the Bassoholic Large rating (http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer...fer/conclusion ), which means it is a good fit for a 3000 to 5000 cubic foot space.

If the Rythmik and SVS are similar in output capabilities, which I do think is the case, then the Rythmiks would be a good fit in about that same size room as well. If you underestimated your space and it is really closer to 7000 cubic feet, then the Rythmiks would be lacking a bit in your room. If you did a good job at approximating the size of the space or perhaps even overestimated it slightly, then you will likely have a pretty good fit. Even though you may be at the larger size of their rating, since it sounds like you are using this for a music only system, you might be just fine, since the demands on the subwoofer are much less in that application. The only problem with getting a subwoofer that is smaller than the necessary size for your room is that you will not pressurize the room, to feel and bass, and it will not be as enveloping as just hearing it.

I'm guessing you might have a good fit with those subs in the size that space, but I would check with Rythmik or call Ascend and talk with Dave to be sure. They might suggest a larger sub.

In terms of output, it may depend a lot on just how loud you like to listen. In my case, I'm running a single E15 that provides more output than I'll ever need with plenty of headroom to spare. My listening area is almost 5000 ft3 but is open at all 4 corners to (1) a kitchen, (2) a dining room and foyer, (3) the master bed, and (4) a small hall with guest beds and bath. Since we never close any doors, the total volume of the open area is pushing 20,000 ft3. Even as open as my house is, I have no problems having enough bass.

That said, room acoustics and speaker placement options may impact your need for 2 or more subs in order to achieve a more uniform sound field without peaks and nulls in the room. In spite of, or maybe because of, the very open floor plan of my home I get quite good results with only a single sub. I think a smaller, enclosed, rectangular room with increased reflections would cause more problems with peaks and nulls and require additional subs to smooth out the frequency response through the listening area. Based on most of the discussion I've seen around here, I started with a single sub fully expecting to have to buy a second. Once I found a good location for my sub, which included raising it about 18-20" above our tile floor, the room integration was so good I never even considered going back for the second sub.

My experience may not align with everyone's and we may not listen as loud as some (although we do frequently crank up the volume for whole house casual listening) but, FWIW, I did want to share that multiple subs are not always required. But again, there are so many variables from personal listening preferences to home acoustics that any feedback you get online is merely a recommendation at best. If you really want to know what is going to work best for you, be prepared to experiment. Start with a single good quality sub like the Rythmik and see how far that gets you. If you aren't happy with the output or room integration, add additional subs until you are. That's the approach I took and I was actually quite surprised to find that I was happy with only a single sub.

Have fun and be sure to follow up and share what setup you end up with!

Thank you both for the insightful replies. It's very helpful to hear that a single E15 works in a space like that. Aside from my house being split-level, it is also open to the kitchen, entry way, a family room, halls, etc. I have limited options in terms of placement just due to the layout of the space, so that is also part of why I'm contemplating getting dual subs.

Actually, I have a few drivers (haha) for getting dual: the possibility of taming some of the room issues, perhaps needing the output, and significantly, my wife wants a symmetrical solution and has given the green light.

Odds are high I'll go with the E15. I'll reply back with what I decide.

Thank you for your real-world feedback.

It is possible to go with too little sub for some applications. I currently have finished basement, where my theater area is open to about a 10,000 cubic foot space. I originally bought a single Outlaw LFM1 for a theater room in a previous house and was very happy with how well it worked. However, in my new much larger space it really is lacking. My main application is home theater, so it is very lacking in providing much impact or feel to the bass, when a scene calls for it. I even just recently moved it into a corner to give more output, but it is still lacking. I can hear the bass frequencies just fine, but don't get any tactile feel.

I am planning to put up a wall in the near future to get the space down to a smaller and more manageable 5500 cubic feet, to where I can maybe get a pair of Rythmik FV15HP subs to pressurize the space. I would guess that my Outlaw subwoofer has close to the output capabilities of the Rythmik LV12R. So in my case, I think the LV12R would be too little of a subwoofer, in terms of output. As white_darren said above you may be able to just get one subwoofer if you are only interested in balanced bass in one seat. But, often if you have multiple seats that you care about though you may need to get a pair to get similar performance in multiple seats.

I tried to get the wife to agree to a FV15HP for our tiny little theater downstairs, but that's a no-go right now, so that's where I'll be moving the ML to. At least until next year. But, with the go-ahead for dual subs in the living room, I'm stoked. :)

If it is a tiny sealed theater downstairs, then you may not need the FV15HP. It is recommended for large spaces 5000 cubic feet and up. You can use it in smaller spaces, but it is overkill, meaning you could probably accomplish similar results spending less money and not having such a big sub.

That's the mandated plan. For now. I've never encountered "too much sub", but maybe someday. :)

Anyhow, I ordered the dual E15s, so now it's just anticipation...