L12 Questions

hello!

a couple of questions about this new subwoofer model,


1. My room is about 1680 ft^3. Would the L12 be loud enough for that volume?
Any estimation of how loud it could get at the lower octaves?

2. Would it be true to assume that the only difference between the L12 and the F12 (other than materials) in terms of their performance would be loudness and extension, while both being equally accurate with same transient response? or am I missing something else?

3. I have Sierra-2 speakers, are these a good match for them? Can the L12 keep up with them?

I cannot answer all of your questions, but I think I can help a bit:

1. My room is 17x13x8, therefore around 1768ft^3. In addition to that, it has two fairly large openings to the kitchen and the foyer (it is our family room). My L12 is positioned between the right front speaker and the opening to the foyer. With this setup I find the output of the L12 to be plenty, both for music (more important to me) and movies. To level match the sub output with that of the mains I had to set the volume knob of the L12 to the 1 o'clock position, keeping the sub trim of the AVR (a Emotiva Fusion 8100) to 0dB, so that I can use that to do adjustments on the fly depending on what I am listening or watching.
The L12 FR response is rated down to 18Hz at the -3dB point. Athough as all sealed sub it is not superflat as it goes down, based on my listening experience it does have significant output in the 20Hz or so region. Keep also in mind that you can play with the response vs output balance via the three-way switch, which changes the damping and the cut-off of the HP filter. I usually keep it at "Low Music", which offer the greatest extension, but "Low HT", which limits the response below 20Hz, sounds pretty good too and increase the output, flattening the response a bit. You can see all of this on the L12 product page on the Rythmik website. Compared to others, they do a good job in showing the FR curves at different conditions. If you want higher output, a ported sub might be your ticket. Rythmik has a comparison of their sub's output on their website:

Output comparison

At 20 Hz, our subs vary in their maximum output capability. The output at 20 Hz is shown relative to F12.

F12: 0db (baseline)
F8: -1.5db
L12: -1db
LV12R: +2.5db
E15HP: + 3.5db
L22: + 4db
F15HP: +4db
FVX15: +6.5db
FV15HP: +9.5db
F25: +8db


2. This is something that either Brian at Rythmik (super-nice guy, super-knowledgeable and super-smart, not a common combination :) ) or somebody who has both can answer for sure. IMHO, the servo technology used by Rythmik sort of levels the playing field in control of the cone, regardless of the material. Like you said, I would think too that the F12 has the same or very similar "dynamic" characteristics as the other 12" Rythmik subs, with an advantage in output and extension. If you like to learn more on your own, this is a good reading on this subject:

http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeak...hragm-material

3. Given the volume of your room, I'd say yes, but again Brian at Rythmik or somebody who owns the Sierra can certainly provide you with a more authoritative answer. I am sure DaveF from Ascend has also hands-on experience in pairing the Sierra 2 with Rythmik subs and in terms of niceness, smartness and knowledge he is Brian's twin!! :D

Thank you very much for your reply!

I know I need new subwoofers! Two new subs would be my ideal! (Thank you First Reflect for hammering that in my brain!) and this new L12 seems to be in a nice point in between the svs sb1000 and 2000 offerings in terms of price, but wouldn't know abt performance. Sb-2000 is definitely a good sub and the one I was considering after a long time researching, but this new sub has me thinking. Cabinet volume is similar, amp power is a little bit less, but Rythmik technology is supposed to be more efficient, thus less power needed to achieve same result and it's actually less expensive than sb-2000.

That's why I'm curious and of Rythmik or Dave could answer my question it would be even better since I would love to have a more affordable Rythmik sub with the same accuracy/speed/transient charactersistics of the larger and more expensive F12 and also be powerful enough to give me good bass down to 20 in my room size!

Given the price, it is actually not that much of a reach to maybe getting two, but that would totally depend on shipping costs. I live in PR so shipping cost will be a bit more expensive and these subs are also heavier than sb-2000s as well. I asked for shipping quote, let's see how that goes.. Meanwhile I wait for Dave to chime in regards to the technical specs of the sub

If your budget and available space allow it, I believe that two L12 would be better than one F12.

Playing with the relative position of two subs will make much easier to tame the room modes, having a cleaner and higher output.

The L12 price and Rythmik servo technology is what drew me to it. I too was looking at the SB-1000 and SB-2000 and almost purchased the SB-2000.

On paper the L12 is much closer to the SB-2000 while costing only few bucks more than the SB-1000.

I do not have direct experience, but I have read over at AVS forum a posting by someone who had both, the L12 and SB-2000. To his ear, in the same room and position, they sounded virtually identical.

good to know, thank you! I just saw that thread and posted a question there too.

Now i wonder how is the premium for a gloss black sub. One would go behind the couch... so that one won't matter.. but the one up front next to my Sierra-2s... hmmm well... u know.. looks.

I'm still waiting on shipping quote though.. now i see an "outside US" option to calculate shipping... I used it and put PR as my country and it showed free shipping from UPS.. so we'll see if that turns out to be true.

Uhmmm, Puerto Rico is an interesting case. On their web site Rythmik write shipping is free to the 48 continental states, of which PR is not part. However, they indicate specific shipping fees only for Canada and Alaska. They do not say anything about PR, or Hawaii.

Gloss black is not an option for the L12 (or even the F12). As accommodating as Internet Direct companies are, not sure you can get that finish. But, hey, it does not hurt to ask!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MusicHead

Gloss black is not an option for the L12 (or even the F12). As accommodating as Internet Direct companies are, not sure you can get that finish. But, hey, it does not hurt to ask!

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The gloss black F12 is the F12SE.

Ah, right, sorry, I stand corrected. I had just looked at the finishing options available for the "regular" F12. I had not realized that the SE came in black gloss.

Well, I guess it would be nice if there were a L12SE :D

It is such an outstanding value sub that paying a little more for the black gloss finish would not be a big deal, for those interested in it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MusicHead

Uhmmm, Puerto Rico is an interesting case. On their web site Rythmik write shipping is free to the 48 continental states, of which PR is not part. However, they indicate specific shipping fees only for Canada and Alaska. They do not say anything about PR, or Hawaii.

Gloss black is not an option for the L12 (or even the F12). As accommodating as Internet Direct companies are, not sure you can get that finish. But, hey, it does not hurt to ask!

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You might be right about shipping cost..but we'll... holiday season is close and this could be my Christmas gift!

1. Is your room sealed or open to other rooms?
2. Based on what I've read from Brian and Enrico, the F series subs have better transient response than the L series but the difference is very small. I agree with this based on my experience of going from one F15 to two L12s.