DVD-A/SACD player questions

I'm in the market for a cheap universal player to sample the world of hirez multichannel audio. I'd like to spend $150 or less. I don't care about video quality as I use a Panasonic DVD-S97 for video. So far there are three that I'm considering:

Pioneer DV-563a
Pioneer DV-578a
Samsung HD-841

From what I've read, many people prefer the 563 to the 578 because it has better DACs and it doesn't downsample SACD to PCM for bass management. That said, if I went with the 563 I wouldn't use an Outlaw ICBM for analog bass management. I'd end up doing D>A in the 563, then A>D>A with my receiver doing bass management.

I wonder if I'd be better off using the 578 since it has better bass management (albeit downsampled to 88k PCM). SACD music would then go D(DCD>PCM)>A with the 578 handling bass management and the receiver doing direct mode output. I've heard both the 563 and 578 have had some trouble playing back certain DVD-A discs. There are reports that many of these glitches can be fixed with new firmware.

I've heard mixed reviews of the Samsung 841, with audio skips/dropouts in SACD playback.

All these compromises make me wonder if I would have been better off sinking a bit more money into a decent universal player. I'd love a 2900 but I needed/wanted HDMI upconversion. To get that in a decent universal player would have been $600 minimum for the Denon 2910, which is a step down from the 2900/3910.

Would you be using the MCACC circuitry in the 54TX?

Such a simple question, such a difficult answer. :) I can see using MCACC if the speaker setup in the player doesn't measure up. If I end up using MCACC, doesn't the 54tx do an A>D conversion before the tweaking? If it does, what would my best option be? I'm really swimming in the details since I'm pretty new to multichannel audio. At this point, I'm really not sure. It would be so simple if we could all afford an I-link player and receiver. :D

That is exactly why I was asking.

If you are going to do MCACC, you might as well use bass management on the 54TX. If you don't use it, the sound may be "off" to you since you are using it now.

Ok that clears it up a bit. For reference, how do you have your 2900 setup? Are you using the 950's auto setup and bass mgmt, or are you relying on the 2900? You mentioned in your dvd thread that you noticed a definite improvement when listening to multichannel due to the better dac in the 2900. Was it a significant upgrade or more subtle?

Also, would you mind giving me your thoughts on my related surround speaker setup thread?

for multichannel, I am using bass management on the P-965....and it is more so because of a quirk with the 965 that makes it inconvenient to use the bass management on a universal. But still, it still sounds better than my 563a. The big improvement was with two-channel. In two channel, the P-965 has a nice analog bass management feature.

Hey curtis I'm going to have to read my 2900 manual when I setup my sub thats coming. I thought I remember reading that the bass management and speaker delays only function when using DVD-A and not SACD.

Unfortunately my pre/pro's bass management is a toggle switch on the back for analog in. One way is 80Hz, the other is none... :p

Nicholas,

I have not read that, I will have to look further. Let me know where you find it. I will look through the manual tomorrow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jimsiff

Are you using the 950's auto setup and bass mgmt

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I guess you don't have a "Sherwood 950" after all. :rolleyes:
Outlaw, Sherwood, 950, 965... all the names and numbers get mixed up after awhile.

Just checked the manual out Curtis. Page 32 says that delay times set due to unequal speaker distances from the listening position are not valid during SACD playback. My surrounds are 7.5' from me, my mains are 7' from me, and my center is 6.5' from me. Too be honest I haven't noticed this at all :)

I have to play with some of the other settings though when I get my sub such as bass filtering, etc. I think I'm going to turn my 2900 filter off which sets all my speakers as large and turns the sub on. Then I'll just have the bass management in my pre/pro cross them over at 80Hz. Only problem is, I just read that doing this gives the sub a 5dB SPL increase, and 15dB increase during SACD playback. Maybe I won't do this, as toning down the sub for SACD will make DVD-A bass to quiet, and coaxial DD/DTS even worse.

Oh the choices! :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nicholas Mosher

Just checked the manual out Curtis. Page 32 says that delay times set due to unequal speaker distances from the listening position are not valid during SACD playback.

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I wonder if they do this because they'd need to downconvert the 1 bit DSD output to some sort of PCM for the bass management/speaker correction to function? Interesting...

Here's a good read that addresses that:

http://www.hometheatersound.com/equi...on_dvd2900.htm

Odd. That guy said when he turned the filter off his sub was 15dB down, not up. Hopefully this will be my case. Then I can simply adjust the levels of my speakers down to match the sub on the 2900. Seeing as you can't adjust levels up with the 2900, I really hope my sub isn't hot with the filter off. If it is, I will have to turn the sub gain down to match the 170s in DVD-A/SACD. Then with digital out to my 950 (for DD/DTS) I will have to turn down the levels for my monitors to match the sub because its output will have been turned down for SACD/DVD-A. I think I have that right... :D

This way I won't ever have to play with levels in my 2900 or 950, and the sub gain can be left as is.

I think for DD/DTS output, he is refering to when the 2900 is doing the decoding. If the receiver or pre/pro is doing it...it is just a raw stream.

I think I went through all of this when I set up my 2900. I have the filter set to off and I have no issues with bass as far as I can tell. I will check again with a meter when I have time....but right now, it sounds excellent.

When using the 2900s processors for DVD-A/SACD with the Filter "Off", the manual says you will get a 15dB spike in the LFE channel (of course I will have to check this). Which means I would have to decrease the gain of the sub to match the 170s.

With the sub gain physically turned down to match the 170s in DVD-A/SACD, wouldn't it be too low when using the 950 processors for DD/DTS? Which means I woulsd have to turn down the levels in the 950 setup to match the sub with DD/DTS.

I guess I'll find out when I get my sub :D

Right....but what is interesting is this statement from the URL I posted:

Quote:

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The other issue with the DVD-2900’s bass management is in the speaker-level settings. Unlike the level adjustments in receivers and my Panasonic DVD-RP82S DVD player, a user can only reduce levels, from a default setting of 0dB to a minimum of -10dB. The trouble is that my subwoofer is down 15dB at the Denon’s factory default of 0, which makes matching subwoofer and speaker-level outputs impossible using the DVD-2900’s pink-noise generator. What I ended up doing was to reduce the speaker level to -10dB and adjust the bass down in respect to the recording until it sounded right. This was a major pain.

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Yeah I'm actually hoping the sub will be down rather than up. Then I can simply leave the gain knob on the sub alone, and adjust the 2900 settings for the 170s down (if the sub isn't down more than 10dB that is). If the sub is at all hot with the filter off for DVD-A/SACD, or it is down more than 10dB, I will have to recalibrate my 950 settings for DD/DTS because I will have had to adjust the gain knob on the sub. The 950 is fairly flexible though, so it won't be any trouble. While the 2900 will be sending full-range signals to the 5 170s, I'm going to use the analog base management in the 950 path to cross them over at 80Hz. That should take some stress off the 170s.

I'll have to play around with it too.

It will be interesting if I find something "wrong"....because it sound pretty freaking good right now! :D