Sierra Towers w/ RAAL or Siera-2EX for (very) nearfield fronts?

I'm currently in the planning phase for a nearfield surround sound "entertainment center". After looking through several different threads, it seems my use case is a bit different from most people here. Hence, my situation.

This will be a desk configuration of sorts with a 49" 32:9 monitor taking the center piece.

Example image from the internet of what one looks like to give an idea of the scale of what I'm working with:

Attachment 1787

Exact dimensions of speaker placement and listening position are tentative (and therefore a bit flexible), but would still prefer to be in a certain range. Ideally, fronts will be placed 5' to 6' apart, tweeter to tweeter. Listening position, being one seat, would be 3' to 4' away from either speaker. I plan on moving out of my current home before setting up this whole thing, so rest assured that I will find a room where it will all be placed in the the center of the room where it can breathe. Not in the corner like the image above.

Gaming is my primary use case (which I know is pretty rare here), so imaging and soundstage are both quite important to me. But I also do critical music listening pretty often as well, and do watch movies occasionally and will marathon shows. So I do everything, but by and large gaming and music is my concern.

Crux of the situation is that, price being no object whatsoever, would the Towers or the Sierra-2 2EXs be better as fronts from that distance? I'm sure the Sierras would be just fine there, but my concern is that the Towers' drivers would align "behind my head" and that I wouldn't get the full experience of them at that distance. This would still be fine, as long as it still proved to be better than the Sierras in the same position. I also intend to use a Sierra Horizon as a center channel as well.

I'm fully committed to buying Ascend's. But again, price is no object for which on I'd choose; only which would perform best in this scenario. I'm a 'buy something once' kinda guy, so I'd rather invest in getting the best I can once instead of leaving things to uncertainty.

Would really like a response from Dave for obvious reasons, but I appreciate any help or expertise!

Thanks Guy for starting this thread. I'll be following it closely as I too am in the early stages of figuring out a desktop based 5.1 system. One concern I have that I haven't seen addressed is the limited vertical dispersion of ribbon type tweeters. In a mid or farfield situation it apparently is no problem, but if our heads are only 3 feet away does that mean we can't move up or down even a few inches without loosing some of the highs? I would love to know this as there are times I'm sitting up straight working and other times I'm kicked back, feet up on the desk enjoying the music. The difference in ear height is probably more than 6 inches. Any thoughts?

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Originally Posted by doctors11

Thanks Guy for starting this thread. I'll be following it closely as I too am in the early stages of figuring out a desktop based 5.1 system. One concern I have that I haven't seen addressed is the limited vertical dispersion of ribbon type tweeters. In a mid or farfield situation it apparently is no problem, but if our heads are only 3 feet away does that mean we can't move up or down even a few inches without loosing some of the highs? I would love to know this as there are times I'm sitting up straight working and other times I'm kicked back, feet up on the desk enjoying the music. The difference in ear height is probably more than 6 inches. Any thoughts?

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At 3 feet, 6 inches is less than 10 degrees of change. You may barely hear a difference.

FWIW, at 3 feet, 6 inches in any direction will throw off imaging with any set of speakers.

Thanks for responding, Curtis.

I wasn't too worried about the vertical dispersion by looking at the measurements, but it's nice to have confirmation nonetheless. Does that mean that I wouldn't lose any detail from the Towers at that distance as well, especially versus the Sierras? Not entirely sure how to know this information from just looking at the graphs and measurements.

Thanks for that Curtis. So does that mean people who listen nearfield have to keep their heads in almost an exact position? Would a speaker with a well designed wave guide be preferable?

Sorry to hi jack your thread That One Guy, but I find this info interesting and helpful.

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Originally Posted by That One Guy

Thanks for responding, Curtis.

I wasn't too worried about the vertical dispersion by looking at the measurements, but it's nice to have confirmation nonetheless. Does that mean that I wouldn't lose any detail from the Towers at that distance as well, especially versus the Sierras? Not entirely sure how to know this information from just looking at the graphs and measurements.

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Towers at 3 feet? Because of the number of drivers and their spacing, there would be more variance at 3 feet with Tower than the Sierra-1, 2, EX.

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Originally Posted by doctors11

Thanks for that Curtis. So does that mean people who listen nearfield have to keep their heads in almost an exact position? Would a speaker with a well designed wave guide be preferable?

Sorry to hi jack your thread That One Guy, but I find this info interesting and helpful.

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I am not sure how much a waveguide would help at that distance.

Just getting closer to a speaker changes the SPL balance. If I am closer the right speaker...the right speaker sounds louder. A waveguide is not going to help with that.

6 inches in any direction at 3 feet makes much more difference than at 10 feet.

BTW, I’d be concerned about reflections off of the desk more than the position of my head.

Not too worried about reflections since the monitor will be mounted on an adjustable arm, and I can move things around how I want. But you would say that the Sierra-2EXs are a better choice overall versus the Towers due to the multiple drivers?

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Originally Posted by curtis

BTW, I’d be concerned about reflections off of the desk more than the position of my head.

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Understood. I was thinking of something like Isoacoustics stands for the front L and R. The center presents a problem. Either on the desk angled up, using a flexible monitor mount as Guy has shown in the above picture, or a shelf above the monitor with the speaker angled down. I have no idea which would be better.

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Originally Posted by That One Guy

Not too worried about reflections since the monitor will be mounted on an adjustable arm, and I can move things around how I want. But you would say that the Sierra-2EXs are a better choice overall versus the Towers due to the multiple drivers?

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Where would you put the Towers??

I think I am getting confused with your application.

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Originally Posted by doctors11

Understood. I was thinking of something like Isoacoustics stands for the front L and R. The center presents a problem. Either on the desk angled up, using a flexible monitor mount as Guy has shown in the above picture, or a shelf above the monitor with the speaker angled down. I have no idea which would be better.

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The vertical dispersion for mids/bass will reflect off of the table unless you angle them to the point where highs then become an issue.
As frequencies get lower, dispersion becomes wider.

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Originally Posted by curtis

The vertical dispersion for mids/bass will reflect off of the table unless you angle them to the point where highs then become an issue.
As frequencies get lower, dispersion becomes wider.

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So all desktop set ups are with compromised sound? What about audio mixing engineers? How do they get around the desk reflections?

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Originally Posted by doctors11

So all desktop set ups are with compromised sound? What about audio mixing engineers? How do they get around the desk reflections?

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In the quality rooms I have seen or have been in, the speakers are not sitting on tables. Rarely do they sit on a flat surface with a lot of flat real estate/table in front of them. They also tune/EQ the rooms, as well as use headphones to check their mixes.

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Originally Posted by curtis

In the quality rooms I have seen or have been in, the speakers are not sitting on tables. Rarely do they sit on a flat surface with a lot of flat real estate/table in front of them. They also tune/EQ the rooms, as well as use headphones to check their mixes.

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Interesting, thanks. Any advice for those of us that really want to do a nice 5.1 with a desktop?

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Originally Posted by doctors11

Interesting, thanks. Any advice for those of us that really want to do a nice 5.1 with a desktop?

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Just realize there are always compromises in any setup or room. You just have to figure out which ones you are willing to make.

Also realize the people doing engineering/mixing work, they are not listening for pleasure.

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Originally Posted by curtis

Just realize there are always compromises in any setup or room. You just have to figure out which ones you are willing to make.

Also realize the people doing engineering/mixing work, they are not listening for pleasure.

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Are you aware of any product that can be put on the desk that would absorb reflections?

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Originally Posted by doctors11

Are you aware of any product that can be put on the desk that would absorb reflections?

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Probably the same stuff you can put on walls, but that would not look great.

Also, the lower the frequencies you are trying to mitigate, the thicker the material needs to be.

What will you be using to drive the speakers? Will it have any kind of room correction/EQ capabilities?

BTW, it may seem like I am overly critical of reflections, but it is really something that you need to experience/experiment with.

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Originally Posted by curtis

Probably the same stuff you can put on walls, but that would not look great.

Also, the lower the frequencies you are trying to mitigate, the thicker the material needs to be.

What will you be using to drive the speakers? Will it have any kind of room correction/EQ capabilities?

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I plan on an A/V receiver with room correction.

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Originally Posted by curtis

BTW, it may seem like I am overly critical of reflections, but it is really something that you need to experience/experiment with.

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Not overly critical at all, I appreciate the advice. When I finally do this it will be quite an investment so I'm doing due diligence now.

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Originally Posted by doctors11

I plan on an A/V receiver with room correction.

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Good. That should help with emphasis caused by reflections.

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Originally Posted by doctors11

Not overly critical at all, I appreciate the advice. When I finally do this it will be quite an investment so I'm doing do diligence now.

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Yes, it is an investment, and a learning curve.

Everyone’s situation is at least a little different. I have found that a basic understanding of physics and listening to different setups/systems goes a long way.

Sorry, one of those things that's different in my particular setup. As it currently is (and where I plan to keep things), is my monitor is on an arm and pushed up to the edge of the desk closest to me. Therefore, reflections are already not an issue.

I use a Couchmaster and a comfy seat in front of the monitor. The desk is more of a table, really. So I'd either get the Sierras on stands or have the Towers stand on their own. Depending on which is better, of course.

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Originally Posted by That One Guy

Sorry, one of those things that's different in my particular setup. As it currently is (and where I plan to keep things), is my monitor is on an arm and pushed up to the edge of the desk closest to me. Therefore, reflections are already not an issue.

I use a Couchmaster and a comfy seat in front of the monitor. The desk is more of a table, really. So I'd either get the Sierras on stands or have the Towers stand on their own. Depending on which is better, of course.

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So if you got the Towers, there would nothing between listening position and speakers?

Will the monitor be in front of the speakers? If that’s the case, then you would be impeding sound to your ears.

Sound radiates 180 degrees from the speaker. This is what creates the soundstage and imaging.
Bass even comes from the rear ports (but this is less directional.

I think Guy is thinking of visual reflections from his monitor on the desktop...? I was talking about the audio reflections from the front three speakers.

Any input on the placement of the center speaker? On the desk tilted up or on a shelf tilted down?

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by doctors11

I think Guy is thinking of visual reflections from his monitor on the desktop...? I was talking about the audio reflections from the front three speakers.

Any input on the placement of the center speaker? On the desk tilted up or on a shelf tilted down?

Thanks.

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Yeah, audio is what I’m referring to as well.

For a desktop system, I think I would try shelf pointed down. With the speaker so close, I think I’d get distracted with sound seemingly not coming from the monitor. I think a phantom center would be fine since there is only one listener.

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Originally Posted by curtis

Yeah, audio is what I’m referring to as well.

For a desktop system, I think I would try shelf pointed down. With the speaker so close, I think I’d get distracted with sound seemingly not coming from the monitor. I think a phantom center would be fine since there is only one listener.

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Yeah I thought about a phantom but in our living room where we have our home theater (Sierra 1's LCR) I love being able to raise and lower the center on both movies and multi channel music. I think I would miss that in our office.

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Originally Posted by doctors11

Yeah I thought about a phantom but in our living room where we have our home theater (Sierra 1's LCR) I love being able to raise and lower the center on both movies and multi channel music. I think I would miss that in our office.

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Ahh.
I’ve never had the need to do that. Balance,balance,balance :)

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So if you got the Towers, there would nothing between listening position and speakers?

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Correct.

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Will the monitor be in front of the speakers? If that’s the case, then you would be impeding sound to your ears.

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I drew up a very terribly drawn image to clear things up a bit (monitor is curved):

Attachment 1788

The L and R would be the Towers or the Sierras on stands, aligned horizontally on either side of the screen. Speakers don't need to be that close to the screen, and the toe-in is optional but probably preferred. The desk is basically a glorified "home entertainment center" that you'd typically see in most homes. Could probably be switched out for one to be honest. Wouldn't change much.

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Originally Posted by That One Guy

Correct.



I drew up a very terribly drawn image to clear things up a bit (monitor is curved):

Attachment 1788

The L and R would be the Towers or the Sierras on stands, aligned horizontally on either side of the screen. Speakers don't need to be that close to the screen, and the toe-in is optional but probably preferred. The desk is basically a glorified "home entertainment center" that you'd typically see in most homes. Could probably be switched out for one to be honest. Wouldn't change much.

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I’m just not sure about using Towers in such close proximity. Sierra monitors would be fine.
I’d get Dave/Dina’s input.

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Originally Posted by curtis

Ahh.
I’ve never had the need to do that. Balance,balance,balance :)

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This will be about 90/10 multi channel music/movies and concerts. So I'm not too worried about the center/monitor issue.

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Originally Posted by curtis

I’m just not sure about using Towers in such close proximity. Sierra monitors would be fine.
I’d get Dave/Dina’s input.

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Why not the Sierra Luna's? Seems like they might be better at that close range. Just add a good sub.

Curtis can you get Dave to take a look at these posts? Would love to hear his input.

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Originally Posted by doctors11

Why not the Sierra Luna's? Seems like they might be better at that close range. Just add a good sub.

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Lunas would be fine, but the EX woofer is great. Not all about the bass.

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Originally Posted by doctors11

Curtis can you get Dave to take a look at these posts? Would love to hear his input.

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I’m sure he’ll see it sooner or later. A call to them would not be a bad idea.

Yeah, I'd at least go for the EXs if the Towers aren't more viable. Out of curiosity, is there any intention of having the option to add the new EX woofer to the Towers or Horizon? I know you guys are willing to fulfill certain requests to an extent. Or would there be too much time money involved to make it work unless it was sold as an upgraded product, like the Sierra-2 and Sierra-2EX?

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Originally Posted by That One Guy

Yeah, I'd at least go for the EXs if the Towers aren't more viable. Out of curiosity, is there any intention of having the option to add the new EX woofer to the Towers or Horizon? I know you guys are willing to fulfill certain requests to an extent. Or would there be too much time money involved to make it work unless it was sold as an upgraded product, like the Sierra-2 and Sierra-2EX?

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I don’t think so.
Remember, Tower and Horizon have dedicated midrange drivers. I think Dave posted that there wouldn’t be anything to gain.

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Originally Posted by doctors11

Curtis can you get Dave to take a look at these posts? Would love to hear his input.

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Hi doctors11, please feel free to email me directly. I would be happy to offer my recommendations.

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Originally Posted by davef

Hi doctors11, please feel free to email me directly. I would be happy to offer my recommendations.

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Thanks David. email sent to "sales".