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Anyone here planning on picking up the Toshiba? As soon as my local BB has more in stock, I'm going to go ahead and jump in. From what I've read on AVS, they seem to mate well with 1080 displays. My 1080 CRT RPTV need a new friend, so what the heck. Don't know when they'll get more in, but I'll post back when it's up and running. Hopefully won't be more than a week or so. Just wanted to know what the rest of you guys were thinking about it.
It's Beta vs. VHS all over again. I don't think it'll take as long to declare a winner this time. Beta lost the war long before Sony took it off the market.
I expect Blu Ray will come out on top this time but I thought Beta would prevail so what do I know. I'm waiting for the winner to become apparent and prices to fall (as they always do). Maybe by 2008.
David
It may be Beta vs. VHS again, but I want to watch some HD content now that it's available. If HD-DVD wins, I'll upgrade to a next gen. player in a year or two. If and when we reach a point when Blu-Ray appears to be winning, I'll dump the Toshiba and get a Blu-Ray player. It's just a price that you have to be willing to pay if you want to jump in early. I'm also planning on picking up a HDMI 1.1 receiver to rid some of the clutter behind my equipment rack. It may well be rendered obsolete when 1.3 comes around, but if you wait until everything in A/V is stable, you'll wait forever.
I'm going to wait this one out a bit.
Waited a bit too long, it seems. All my local BB's were out of stock, Crutchfield was out, Onecall is out. Ordered it from ValueElectronics and they e-mailed me today saying it would ship out today or Monday. I'll let you know how it goes once it gets set up.
http://www.latimes.com/technology/la...ies-technology
Quote:
DVD in High Def? The Difference Is Not Eye-Opening
April 20, 2006
As it rolls out the first high-definition DVD player, Toshiba Corp. is boasting: "Image is everything."
After testing the so-called HD DVD machine on three TVs of various dimensions, I hit on a more appropriate slogan: Size matters.
Last week, a milestone in viewing was reached with the debut of the Toshiba HD-A1, which costs just shy of $500. (A deluxe model, the HD-XA1, goes for $800).
Should you care? Probably not. Because unless you already have a state-of-the-art high-definition television at least 40 inches in size, you won't notice much of a difference.
Here's my advice: If you've got a spare $500, use it toward an upgrade to a bigger set instead. In the time it takes to save up another $500, the price of HD disc players will probably drop and a pending format war may well be decided.
Early this week, when the first movies in HD DVD format were released, I watched NBC Universal's "Serenity" and Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.'s "The Last Samurai."
I started on a 32-inch Sony HDTV that was about two years old. It had no capability to accept the most current digital hookup technology — HDMI — so I used the analog audio and video cables included with the player.
Then I popped in "Serenity" and waited. Then, I waited some more.
It took the better part of a minute for the machine to recognize the disc and ready it for playing. Not a huge amount of time in the scheme of things, but frustratingly long compared with standard DVDs.
Indeed, many functions on the Toshiba player seemed to take forever to complete. This was probably due, at least partially, to the huge volume of data on HD discs. But that didn't make it any less irritating.
Matters were not helped by the fact that the Toshiba remote didn't always work. And it was labeled so poorly that it was barely readable except under bright light (not true of the fancy model, whose buttons are backlighted).
When the movie finally appeared, it was squeezed, causing shapes to be distorted. The globe in the Universal logo was more egg-shaped than spherical. Actresses in the first scene appeared even more emaciated than the norm.
I later found in the manual that some HD DVD discs would not play properly without HDMI.
Next, I switched to an almost new, 23-inch Samsung LCD set with HDMI hookup. The HD DVD image looked great. But a plain, old DVD of the same movie looked just as great on the set. In fact, the images looked almost identical.
Sure, during bright, outdoor scenes, the HD DVD image looked a tiny bit cleaner, as if barely a day's worth of dust had been wiped from the screen.
Finally, I tried the player with a 37-inch Sharp LCD set, also with HDMI. Again, the regular DVD and HD DVD images were quite good. But on a set of this size, I could see more differences.
The overall image appeared richer, more dense. At moments, especially during scenes in which the camera was in motion, it felt more like watching a film projected on a screen.
Using a DVD player hooked up to the same TV, I tested my perceptions by switching between the two formats. I asked a colleague to close his eyes while I chose a version, then had him open them and guess: DVD or HD DVD?
He got it right only about 75% of the time.
So, yes, it's better. But don't expect the dramatic leap in quality that came with the transition from VHS to DVDs in the 1990s.
Yup... I'm waiting.
I don't like war and I won't be a party to this one. There may be no winners. :D
cheers
shane
Curtis, that review you linked to doesn't really tell much. The guy hooked it up to a older TV with the analog cable that came with the player. Probably composite video. Hell, he didn't even realize he was running it in 4:3 mode. I take more stock in reading peoples experiences on the forums. At least you can be a little more sure about the reviewer hooking it up properly. That being said, the bigger your display, the more HD is gonna give you the Wow factor.
Got my player yesterday. In short, it's spectacular. The main thing that always bothered me with OTA or satellite HD was pixellation. You know, that bit-starved look that stems from lack of bandwidth? This displays none of that, even on complex scenes. My pet peeve on standard DVD was the dreaded macroblocking in dark scenes. Glad to say that it's absent, as well. All in all, the video is better than Discovery HD on satellite, or PBS HD via OTA antenna. The audio is a wee bit strange via analog multi-channel. Mainly it's due to Warner titles having an encoding problem. Seems the audio was encoded about 10dB too soft. Also, the remote looks like it's straight from the 80's, but I use a MX-700 so that's not a problem. It's got it's warts and looks and acts like a first generation machine, but it definately delivers on my big CRT. Oh, I got the black HD-D1, not the silver HD-A1. Other than the color they are identical.
Good thing they do not do SACD and DVD-A.....might be more tempting. :)
Still going to wait until the format war shakes things out.
Nope, no SACD support, but it does do DVD-A for 2 channels. Supposedly a firmware fix could enable multi-channel DVD-A support because Dolby TrueHD uses the same MLP technology that DVD-A does. Dolby TrueHD is only good for 2 channels also on this player, however it will do Dolby Digital + and DTS-HD multi-channel.
Gonna sit this one out too. But while at a BB recently (BB near Inner Harbor in Baltimore), was quite amazed by the Toshiba.
went to BB this morning before they opened to make sure i got the only toshiba hd-dvd player they received yesterdayQuote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Horton
i have been saving to upgrade my classics so i was a little apprehensive if this is going to be a good move
eddie is right! this player is spectacular... audio, video. is a noticeable improvement from my panasonic s77...listening to boz scaggs concert dvd now and it looks and sounds better than before...this is on a dvd +...i haven't even played the 3 hddvd i got along with it yet...so far this is the best upgrade i made next to the ascends...setup was a cinch, startup is slow but not that bad
i just blew my upgrade budget on the se, sorry about that davef...anybody want to buy a slightly used s77?
One thing that ended up really surprising me was the sound from DD+. Switching back and forth between the DD+ via analog and DTS via Toslink, the DD+ is not hard to spot. The surrounds are so much more enveloping than standard DD or DTS. They should be, though, with that high a bit rate. After much tweaking, I have the levels exactly matched between the Toslink and analog inputs. The analogs with DD+ win hands down. BTW, Rosa, I agree on the way it handles standard DVD. I now have a Zenith DVB-318 for sale.
I just came from a tour of a sound mixing stage.
Before saying the new formats sound better, you have to find out if what was put into the DD+ stream was the same mix, or if it was re-mixed.
Why? If it sounds better to me, then it sounds better to me. Whether a possible re-mix is making it better, or a higher bit rate, or both, the end result to my ears is the same. It is without a doubt more full and enveloping. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but sometimes I think we let the "it must be apples to apples" debate get in the way of what this hobby is all about - finding what gives each of us the best experience. For whatever reason, the DD+ gives me an improvement in the sound.Quote:
Originally Posted by curtis
What I am saying is that you can not assume that it is higher bitrate that is giving you the better sound....it could be that someone did a different job mixing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Horton
I agree that DD+ is more capable, but because it is more capable, you can not assume that whatever is recorded in DD+ is going to sound better than any other format.
There is a thread over on AVS where "thebland" said the DD+ track on a particular movie sounded worse to him.
Maybe in a sense, I am also trying to justify not being an early adopter. :D
Now that I have an HDTV, I am tempted to pick up the HD-A1 at the closeout pricing. Guys with the A1, any new info to share after having the player for a few months?
After living with mine for almost 5 months, I don't regret the purchase one bit. HD-DVD's look mind blowing, the upscaling of standard def DVD's is right up there with the current best, and playing audio CD's through the analog outs of my D1 sounds great. The good thing about audio CD's through analog is that the player's bass management still does its thing. I've upgraded the firmware every time it has been available and have had no glitches or hiccups that have been reported from a few users. Yeah, it's slow and yeah the remote sucks, but I don't mind the wait and I have a MX-700 that works nicely. I don't know who'll win the format war, but so far, HD-DVD has lived up to and exceeded the hype for half the cost of the problem plagued Blu-Ray player. Blu-Ray is still using mpeg-2 for the most part, and DD+ and TrueHD are nonexistant on the BR players. $500 for the best hi-def I've ever seen? Quite a bargain.
I saw HD-DVD using the HD-A1 on a nice big 1080p display at the HE Show here in LA last June.
Stunning! I wonder how it would look on my 720p display.
I have an upconverting DVD player now, and I think it it looks best at 480p. Would love to try the HD-A1. Maybe look for a used one to try out.
What is also interesting is that second generation HD-DVD players are coming to market where first generation Blu-Ray players are not really here yet, or just barely.
For those of you interested, I got this in the email today from eCost.com
HD-A1 for $395...brand new.
http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?DPNo=707060
Saw that. Things should really get interesting during the holiday shopping season. I'm expecting the HD-A1 to become a loss leader at some point.Quote:
Originally Posted by curtis
David
I'm sitting still at the moment, but I have to say - if I had the extra cash I'd think about doing it. I will have a very hard time resisting once a real solid player comes out (Looking forward to see if Oppo comes out with something).
I wish I could have joined this earlier but I have owned the toshiba since the first available day, in Alaska I think we were 4 days off launch . But I have a toshiba 720 p dlp and with all the firmware upgrades the video and the audio have been an extreme difference . Now the audio does support 5.1 DD+ but you must use the analog cables and you must have a supported movie and after the movie starts you must go to the audio setup and change it to + . The upscaling is actually better than my friends $3000. Denon he is quite upset he didnt take the time to wait for it . The only glitch I have had is that the LFE is a bit lower on some movies and you must simply add a couple dbs to your levels and be sure to move them back for any other source . And for the new lower price you cant beat this deal , and with the PS3 release next month you will have Bluray and HD-DVD for less than the price of the cheapest bluray now . So I really dont care who wins because If you have both then you always win .
Another thought - when TV shows on DVD (like Battlestar Galactica, all those HBO shows, etc) start coming out on hi-def optical....then I definitely won't be able to resist.
I'm also very curious how competent of a player the Xbox 360 dongle will be...
Eddie and Scottkelly,
Thanks for the replies. I just scored an open box RCA HDV5000 for $159.00 from Walmart, thanks to a post on AVS forums. Had to drive to Reading, PA to get it, but it should be worth it. I hope to hook it up tonight, no HD-DVD's yet to test out so I'll just check out the upscaling.
I did some comparisons the other night to test out the upscaling ability of the player with a few discs that we have 2 copies of in the house. RCA hooked up via HDMI and upscaled to 1080i and my old Toshiba 3950 hooked up via component at 480p. I synched the players to quickly compare the same scenes and I really like the upscaling for SD-DVD's on the RCA. I have read some people calling it an "HD lite" effect and I agree. The upscaled pic had more depth and sharper colors. The Toshiba looked washed out. Still waiting for an HD-DVD from Netflix, first one will be "Goodfellas".
So this last past week I have seen some HD-DVD demos. I went to the AVS after party at the EHExpo in Long Beach, CA where they showed the new high-end JVC projector and the acoustically transparent SmX screem with the Toshiba HD-DVD player. Since I don't know video that well......all I can say is "WOW!!".
Tonight, I went to Microsoft's HD-DVD demo they had a The Grove in Los Angeles. They had a special two-hour event for AVS members. They talked about the technology as well as showed demos.....the sound and video were very nice. The sound was all Harmon Company stuff...Lexicon, Revel....very nice. Video was a high-end Marantz projector and Toshiba player. Again, the quality of the video was scary good.
I am ruined as far as video is concern.....I won't be able to have stuff like that for a long time...if ever.
The HD-A1 shows a fabulous picture, no doubt.
Mine is acting up right now, it'll play DVDS and CDS, but it won't recognize HD DVDS (says- No Disc ).
I need to call Toshiba and get an RMA... :(
Its a quirky machine, but sound is great through the 5.1 analog outs.
Open Box RCA for $159 !! :eek:
If that thing works properly, that is a SERIOUS steal, even if it has problems, ya still have the warranty, so in essence you got a $500 player for 159....
Sweet!!