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dae3dae3
04-28-2005, 04:53 AM
I got my SVS 25-31PC-Plus yesterday and hooked it up. I can say without a doubt that my pants did not flap and all of my dental work is safely in place. :rolleyes:

I didn't have time to really do any configuration at all so I am not even close to passing judgement. I also have a new receiver so I may not have something in the receiver set properly. It does go deeper than my old sub. No doubt about that. I will have a couple of hours tonight before my wife gets home to configure it so hopefully I will get it figured out.

Lee Bailey
04-28-2005, 06:44 AM
Placement of your sub is critical. So is using test tones and an SPL meter to figure out how well your placement is performing. Last but not least may be the purchase of a parametric equalizer if your room is causing problems. SVS recommends corner placement of their subs. Though your mileage may vary.

dae3dae3
04-28-2005, 07:05 AM
I have the sub corner loaded at the moment. I will play with placement more after my 340's arrive. My placement options are limited at the moment because of the bipolar nature of my current speakers.

Like I said, I am not even close to passing judment yet. It is funny though that if you read all the SVS posts over at AVS you half expect the lights to dim when you plug the sub in and the windows in the house to blow out when you play it the first time. :p

dae3dae3
04-28-2005, 05:12 PM
Well, I got things fixed quite a bit this evening.

I moved the sub away from the corner and got the sub level much better. The stupid automatic setup on the receiver had the sub turned way down. :confused: I had to track down a light fixture that was rattling real badly and tighen it down. :p So far it is belting out the low bass and rattling everything in the house but I still haven't got it to provide the tight punchy bass that I am looking for.

I'm not going to try to tweak any further until I get my 340's because the entire setup will change anyway. I should get them in 3 or 4 days.

Nicholas Mosher
04-30-2005, 09:59 PM
but I still haven't got it to provide the tight punchy bass that I am looking for.Sounds like you might want to invest in a BFD pEQ.

Lee Bailey
05-01-2005, 06:48 AM
Just an idea, but can you plug all the ports on that sub, and try it as a sealed unit? Some people prefer the sound, especially for music.

dae3dae3
05-01-2005, 06:55 PM
Just an idea, but can you plug all the ports on that sub, and try it as a sealed unit? Some people prefer the sound, especially for music.

I would have to get a third port plug for that. It only comes with two.

I may try putting it in 16 Hz mode tomorrow just to see what happens. I doubt I would bottom it out as it was rattling my house in 20 Hz mode with the gain turned up less than half-way. On the other hand I also would bet I would get "punchier" bass if I put it in 25 Hz mode. According to the SVS website the 25-31PC+ can produce the highest SPL of any of their tube subs except for the PC-Ultra in the 25Hz and above area. I will play around with the different settings until I find which one I prefer. Whatever I decide, the sub isn't going back. This thing destroys anything else that I've had so badly that it is not even worth comparing them. :cool: Who would have guessed that that a 32" tall Sub with a 12" driver and a 550 Watt amp would beat up on a 10" 100 watt sub? :p

The BFD will have to wait until at least my birthday in August or maybe Christmas. I have officially purchased the maximum for now that won't get me sleeping on the couch. :)

dae3dae3
05-02-2005, 07:03 AM
The biggest difference that I have found is trying to get used to the sound of clean undistorted bass. I think I have grown used to the distortion present in my previous sub. The bass doesn't really call attention to itself, it is just present. It will probably be much better once I really sit down and tweak the levels and get them level matched properly. I haven't taken the time to do it yet because it will all change when I get my 340's tomorrow. :D

dae3dae3
05-02-2005, 07:14 AM
On a semi-related note. I am curious where my 25-31 PC+ would fall in line when compared to the SVS box subs. The cylinders seem to be the ugly stepchildren of SVS's line right now at least in the marketing department. A big plus of the tube subs in my opinion is that I can easily move my sub by myself. I think if I got a box SVS sub with comparable performance I would have trouble moving it around.

dae3dae3
05-02-2005, 10:39 AM
I e-mailed Ron at SVS with my previous question and this is what he said. Please also remember that his response is with the knowledge that I am running the sub in 20 Hz mode.

"It’s very close to the new PB12-Plus. The PC+ you have will actually be a bit stronger from 25hz and up, but the PB12-Plus will have a slight edge below 20hz."

The PB12-Plus weighs 110 Lbs so I was right in thinking I would have had trouble moving it around myself.

bikeman
05-02-2005, 12:03 PM
"It’s very close to the new PB12-Plus. The PC+ you have will actually be a bit stronger from 25hz and up, but the PB12-Plus will have a slight edge below 20hz."


That's a trade-off that I'd be more than happy with. I want below 20hz for sure but everything above 25 is a heck of a lot more useful. Thanks for the info.

David

Eddie Horton
05-02-2005, 02:01 PM
Glad you like the new sub. A couple of posts back you mentioned that it may take a while to get used to clean bass from a quality sub. I agree 100%. Before I got the HSU, my sub was an older P.O.S. JBL. It was loud and boomy and turned up waaaaay too hot as I later found out. After setting up the VTF3-MkII and properly calibrating it, I was underwhelmed at first. A good sub that is properly set up will not call attention to itself at all with music, but will fill in the last octave. If your sub sounds like a teenager's Honda Civic, then you need to turn it down. When it comes to movies, a good quality, properly setup sub will not call attention to itself until it needs to. If the background music to you wife's soap operas is bumping like a 70's porno flick, then you need to turn it down. It does take a little while to get used to clean, effortless bass.

dae3dae3
05-02-2005, 04:20 PM
I just tried the sub in 16 Hz mode. :D

That was cool.

I definitely noticed more infrasonic stuff coming through at the detriment of the "higher" bass. Not really too bad though. I was watching Star Wars Phantom Menace and the scene where Obi Wan finally kills Darth Maul has some cool low end stuff. It is hard to A B very quickly because of having to take out the port plug but I was able to get it close enough to get a good test. I can see why Nicholas digs the infrasonics. I may leave it in 16 Hz mode. I doesn't seem to be bottoming out and my ears are ringing a little right now from having it cranked much louder than I usually would watch a movie trying to see if the sub would throw out its wallet and hit the ejection seat. :D

I will try this again after I get my 340's and throw in some music with the test as well. I usually don't listen to music with my current speakers because they annoy me. :rolleyes: If the music suffers too much with the lower tune I may run in a higher mode. Actually, it really only takes a minute or so to change the tune so I may just switch it to a lower tune for movies. My receiver will save custom speaker levels configurations so I could just set one up for the different tune levels.

Edited: for grammar. It was bothering me. :rolleyes:

GaryB
05-02-2005, 07:04 PM
IMO, you're asking for trouble by leaving it in 16 Hz tune with two ports plugged. You will almost certainly bottom the driver at some point with an unexpected burst of strong infrasonic information. Try it at moderate volumes for fun, by all means, but don't leave it like that. You're safer at 20 Hz with one port plugged, but even then, you'll be taking a risk if you like things loud - and once you get your 340s, that will likely be a real temptation.

If you decide you really like the deeper tune, you should consider eating the return shipping charge and exchange the sub for a 20-39 PC+ (my first choice) or even a 16-46.

dae3dae3
05-02-2005, 07:27 PM
I think a 32.5" tall sub is as much as I can ask my wife to tolerate for now. I will definitely play around with it before I decide. I just think it is cool having options. I won't be disappointed if I end up in 20 Hz mode. Ron at SVS didn't seem too concerned about 20 Hz mode. I think going from 25 to 20 Hz mode on a 25-31 PC+ is not as big a deal as going from 16 to 12 Hz on a 16-46 PC+. The 16 to 12 Hz change is half an octave. The same half an octave drop from 25 Hz is 18.75 Hz so there is more head room. Also, IMHO the 25-31 PC+ is a beast in 25 Hz mode and has some headroom to give away.

On the other hand, from what I have read of some peoples listening habits they would bottom this thing out in about 5 seconds in 16 Hz mode. It took me about 2 years to get around to ordering the sub so I'm having fun with it so far. :p I will make some decisions based on my preferences and experiences with the sub after I have had it for a while. However, I doubt very much that the final choice will be 25 Hz. mode ;)

dae3dae3
05-02-2005, 07:31 PM
Sorry if the "band geek" in me came out in that last post talking about octave ranges. :D

I have had the unfortunate luck of being mentally scarred by both ear training and music theory classes in college and Microsoft certification tests after college. I now over analyze everything I hear and read. :D

GaryB
05-02-2005, 07:52 PM
No need for apologies. I am quite comfortable with and very much appreciate lucid technical analysis, and yours is dead accurate as far as it goes. I'll take that any day of the week over vague subjective emotion-laden attempts at describing sound quality... ;)

Nicholas Mosher
05-02-2005, 07:54 PM
Glad to hear that it's not bottoming out. :cool:

Try "The Incredibles" (if you have it).
0:37:45 to 0:39:00 or so, the first robot battle.
About 1/2 way through the scene the robot turns into a ball and rolls to the side. The very next roll where it shows him dropping to the ground as a ball caused my 1646+ to bottom in 12Hz mode. I think it comes awful close even with all ports free in it's native 16Hz tune (this is at 105dB).

Lee Bailey
05-02-2005, 10:29 PM
Since cylinder subs do not need all the internal bracing that a box sub does, it makes it lighter as well as less expensive. I for one also think it looks much better than a box sub. After all, I'm not listening to a piece of furniture! :)

I've yet to bottom my old SVS 25-31PC, even though the Incredibles scared me with the amount of low end coming out of the sub. Mine has the upgraded ISD driver and the replacement 300W Bash amp, which does utilize a subsonic filter below 20Hz.

dae3dae3
05-03-2005, 04:54 AM
If the background music to you wife's soap operas is bumping like a 70's porno flick, then you need to turn it down.

LOL :D

dae3dae3
05-03-2005, 05:03 AM
I will check out those scenes in the Incredibles. I should be getting my 340's today so I will be playing a bunch of stuff tonight to try them out. :D

I will probably buy The Phantom of the Opera today on my lunch break. I wanted it anyway and it has good music which also has pipe organs in it. :D This way I can have a good demo of the 340's and the sub at the same time. :cool:

dae3dae3
05-04-2005, 10:51 AM
I had the sub back and forth in all three modes last night until I finally got brain overload and stopped for a day. :rolleyes: I am having trouble making a decision which mode I like best.

What I have found is surprising. My room must have some major natural bass reinforcement. If I put the sub in 16 Hz mode and set the gain on the sub slightly less than half way up the sub level in the receiver ends up at -10 on the receiver. I need to find the gain setting where I can have a setting on the receiver of between -2 and -5. This seems to tell me that I actually have quite a bit of overhead with this sub even when I have it in 16 Hz mode. :D My next plan of action is to set it up as described and play some of those scenes that were bottoming out Nick's 16-46 PC+ at reference level (louder than I would normally play) on the receiver volume and see what happens.

I saw a report on the news this morning that there were unexplained loud booming sounds coming from the north side of town for the last week. I hope it isn't me. :eek: I don't want the police here. :cool:

Nicholas Mosher
05-04-2005, 03:50 PM
When you don't have the subs output equalized you typically have alot of peaks that give your SPL meter a false reading. You will actually be producing accurate sound around those peaks, but the rest of the response will be too low. Next to my Ascend Acoustics CBM-170s, my BFD pEQ is without a doubt the best value in my yet to be completed home theater. I highly recommend them to everyone.

shane55
05-04-2005, 05:00 PM
Well Nick...

Here's a dumb Newbie question...
What's the BFD and how is it used?
I googled it and got "Behringer Feedback Destroyer". Is this it?

cheers

shane

bikeman
05-04-2005, 05:30 PM
Well Nick...
I googled it and got "Behringer Feedback Destroyer". Is this it?


Hi Shane,
Yes, that's it. Here's a good primer on the BFD.

http://www.snapbug.ws/bfd.htm

David

shane55
05-04-2005, 11:15 PM
David...
Thanks so much. Lotsa reading and familiarizing ahead ;)

Cheers.

shane

dae3dae3
05-05-2005, 06:05 AM
I tried the scenes in The Incredibles and the sub did not bottom out. I wonder if the fact that my sub rolls off earlier than the 16-46 PC+ helps it keep from bottoming out with the infrasonics.

To my surprise I have found that the mode that sounds the best to me is the native 25 Hz tune. Music sounds much better in this mode. Of course, I will probably change my mind before the day is up. :o I haven't gone back and watched any movies in 25 Hz mode so I will have to do that to decide if I want to compromise and go to the 20 Hz mode. I may just end up keeping it in 25 Hz mode most of the time and changing it to 16 Hz mode for "special occasions." :D

I can change the tune and the speaker levels pretty quickly now that I have done it a few times. It wouldn't be too much of an inconvenience to switch it occasionally.

dae3dae3
05-05-2005, 06:32 AM
The biggest thing that I have found is that I love having a sub that you can adjust to fit your personal preferences. Now that I have had this feature I don't think I will ever buy another sub that does not have this ability.

I also unplugged my main speakers while I had a jazz cd playing and the bass coming from the sub was very nice and smooth without any noticable distortion. That was not the case with my previous sub.

dae3dae3
05-06-2005, 05:29 AM
I think I will be asking for a BFD for my birthday this year. :D