Planning Basement HT...what did I forget?

[Jonnyozero3]

Well guys, the time has arrived for me to throw down my hard earned cash and finally get my home theater started. I feel like I've been on this and other forums forever (read:lurking) doing too much reading and too much planning (as if there is such a notion). My girlfriend thinks I'm a crazy obsessed geek and I think I agree with her. But, I would like some of you who are much smarter than me on this audio/visual stuff to take a look if you have time and see if I've missed anything or if you have any better ideas.

To follow along please see the jpg diagrams and photos in th HT folder at:
http://community.webshots.com/album/109804667bgmVCV
(Photos should be live within 30 min)

Anyhow, my room is approx. 17.75'x24.5' with walled areas in two corners (one is a storage area/stairs other is reserved for a bathroom), leaving me with a main area of 24.5x12.5-ish. There is a big built-in in front that I am removing. There is also a 3'7" wide low part of the ceiling that houses some pipes and vents. The ceiling is finished with a office-type foam rectangle deal. Also, there is a 5.5"x5" wood post and a metal 3" pole located alongside the seating areas. I will have a couch, loveseat, and chair with ottoman to shuffle around.

Equipment:
Projector (either Panny AE700, Tosh MT700, or BenQ 7700 most likely)
DIY 96-100" Screen
Asend CBM-170s x 4, CMT-340C
SVS PB10-ISD
Harman Kardon AVR-435 (depending on the price I can find)
Other stuff DVD/Xbox/PC etc.

Since this is the wonderful audio forum, I am really asking for help in placing the speakers. I tried to plan it so the fronts can image well for as many seats as possible (3ft forward and 2ft from the side walls). I employed the "golden triangle" rule (1-1-1)...I hope that was a correct way to go. I will upgrade to 7.1 eventually but the side surrounds will be doing 5.1 duty for now (few months). I have no idea where the sub will go. I am also curious if the 170s with the PB10 will be fine in a room this size, I am assuming yes.

I am having a hard time deciding where to place the rears to best fit the room & provide the best sound. I'm thinking a few feet above the listeners on the wall (omnimount?), and for the surround backs a ceiling option would be fine b/c the ceiling light foam blocks that pop upwards (if that makes sense) and I can cut them easily. I am just not sure what distance would be best for the 4 surrounds. I'd like to get the surround backs as far back as possible (back wall) for 7ch stereo while playing darts :), but the HK-435 manual says no more than 6 feet. DOH! And the for the side surrounds I'm not sure how close to the seating to put them and how wide to place them (See diagram).

Anyhow, if anyone can shed some light on what I should do, and what would be best, I would greatly appreciate it. I want to do this right the first time.

Thanks a ton,
Jon O.

PS: wow I wrote a lot, sorry - and there was a lot of questions in there. Do I need to write an outline? heh.

[curtis]

Hey Jon.....good to see you post!

A friend of mine just bought a Panny AE700...she loves it, but I have not seen it yet.

Just looking quickly at the layout, I think it looks good, I would just move the rear surrounds closer, and possibly a bigger sub. Maybe even go to all 340's along the front. Other than that, I am very envious! Heck...even without those suggestions, I am envious!

[bikeman]

Hey Jon.....good to see you post!

Just looking quickly at the layout, I think it looks good, I would just move the rear surrounds closer, and possibly a bigger sub. Maybe even go to all 340's along the front. Other than that, I am very envious! Heck...even without those suggestions, I am envious!

I agree with Curtis. The only thing I might change is 340's accross the front if music is important to you. A bigger, better sub is always a fun way to spend money. Nice layout, Jon.

David

[Jonnyozero3]

Thanks guys - I appreciate the kind words.

If the 170s can carry the room fine right now, I think I will do a 5.1 setup with them, and then maybe later I can scratch the money together for 340s if I feel the need. I listen to a bit of music now...but I'm guessing I'll be buying more CDs once I get setup and it'll become more important :)

As for the sub, I hope its big enough...like you say its a great way to spend money. I've loved my Klipsch Promedia Ultra dual 8" sub (hey they're computer speakers back from when I lived in dorms), so we'll see.

For the surround backs, I wonder if I can get/make an adjustable ceiling mount so I can turn them 180 degrees when its time for a party. Hmmmm...

The stuff I'm down to figuring out (and definately accepting suggestions) now are:
1) Speaker Stands (where can I get just three matching ones of two sizes for less than $80 a pair?)
2) Cables (thinking Soundking 12ga w/bannanas, and maybe AR Pro's from ac4l.com for the interconnects etc)
3) Cheap room treatment solutions - I want to put up theatre-style curtains, so maybe I can put ugly but effective foam behind them. Of course, I need to find cheap cloth first :confused:
4) Power Conditioner (under $100) - only a few ideas so far, and it looks like I may need 8-10 outlets. No monster. They're evil.
5) Need some positive reinforcement on the 435 choice - I'm hoping the EQ and the TI chip are worth the extra dough
6) And the video side is a whole 'nuther can o' worms :rolleyes:

...and I complain about how complex and confusing this hobby can be, but that's what makes it fun!

I think I may call Ascend tomorrow to place my initial order - extended plan I think....that's what I get from going up to the Toshiba MT700 from the Panny AE700 ;)

[Lou-the-dog]

Johnny,

Did you get moved to Omaha? I believe I read that you were going to relocate there. I live an hour to the north.

Randy

[Jonnyozero3]

Randy -

Yup, I just got up here on the 18th. I moved into a house in Papillion about 12-15min from Offutt AFB - hence the reason I now have a basement to put a home theater in :D

So now that there's two of us here we can organize an Ascend get-together right? haha!

Seriously though - in case you can't tell by my incessant....er unceasing...typing in posts I am very excited! (And I try never to use exclamation points)

!

[Lou-the-dog]

Welcome to the Midwest. I assume you'll be operating out of Offut. Have a friend of the family that used to fly on LookingGlass missions there. Interesting stuff.

If you need anything let me know. I've got a cousin (retired military)in Bellevue and my bro-in-law in Elkhorn (owns a light construction/remodel biz).
We try to get down to the "big city" once a month or so.

Randy

[Jonnyozero3]

Yup, you've assumed correctly. I'm an EWO (Electronic Warfare Officer/rated Navigator) and I'll be flying as soon as I get trained up on the RC-135. Luckily I have some down time waiting to get into a class so I can enjoy getting my new setup together. Those LookingGlass missions were pretty neat - I can't believe they always had a plane airborne from '61-90. Very cool.

Thanks for the welcome and the offer - people are nicer up here than in Texas ;) Any chance your brother-in-law does electrical and would like to quote me on how much it would be to wire in a couple new outlets for my basement?

ps: I like these smaller forums...nobody minds the personal discussions...pms are extra work...

[Furypitcher]

Did you get a military discount when you bought your speakers? It was mentioned by one of the members that Dave gives military a discount. I fixing to buy the 23-23 system and have it shipped to Keflavik, Iceland. Boy shipping up here is expensive.

[Jonnyozero3]

I haven't ordered just yet, but I will be sure to ask since I've heard he does offer one. I may do some ordering today since its payday :)

Heh, I can't figure out which system is the 23-23....is that a 7.1 CBM-170/340C setup?

And you're in Keflavik huh? I definately don't want to know what the shipping is to there. What do you do?

[Furypitcher]

The 23-23 system has 170 x 4, 340C and HSU -2MKI sub. Shipping is over $200.

My career field is aircraft electrical/environmental systems, but right now I'm a security manger. Don't mind it, making big COLA up here (almost $2000 last month).

[Jonnyozero3]

Nothing like a nice big COLA ;) You could get all 340's for that!

[Furypitcher]

Base housings not big enough! :(

[Jonnyozero3]

doh!

[Lou-the-dog]

...Any chance your brother-in-law does electrical and would like to quote me on how much it would be to wire in a couple new outlets for my basement?

I'll ask Joel (bro-in-law) about the wiring. I know he does some electrical repair work. I'll let you know.

I see you have surge protection on your list. I just scored a power-buy on an eight outlet Brickwall unit...$199 shipped. Reg $249 and then add shipping. If your interested in this I can see if I can get you in yet. Alot of people jumping on the the pro Furman units too... like the PL-8 Series II. Can be had for around $100, maybe less in E-Bay and such. Either unit would be good I think.

Randy

[Jonnyozero3]

Thanks for the advice - I think I'm going to pick up one of the Furman PL-8 II's - They look very very nice :) I don't have a rack but I'll screw it right into my Audio Pier from Target...OH YEAH! I was going to get a Tripplite HT10DBS, but this is better. I may have to get something else to shield the cable line, but that comes later.

About the wiring - no biggie, but thank you. I'm just curious how bad its going to be to run a 15A line from the box in the garage ~30ft away to the HT area. I appreciate the inquiry.

[Jonnyozero3]

Just ordered 2x CBM-170s, 1x CMT-340C and a HK AVR-435 to get started. Should be here by friday and I may have the rest of the speakers ordered by then. I am very excited. Dave and James were very nice listening to me babble and ask questions. James and I also shared a "moment" haha when I paid up - I've been researching speakers since 2003 and a member of the forum since Dec of 2003, I've been waiting a long time and the experience was quite....sniff....emotional....

:D

[curtis]

Jonny...if I remember correctly, I first "ran" into you right after I got my Ascends.

[Furypitcher]

Cool. I ordered mine yesterday to, the 23-23 system. I just don't know when I'll get them, could be next week or two months from now. Shipping to overseas can be a real pain. Curtis was right, they do give a military discount and it was more than I was expecting. Great company to do business with. They may get more business once people here get a chance to hear my system.

[curtis]

Fury...how does something get shipped to you? I just had a Marine friend in town, and I know I send mail for him to a U.S. military address in San Francisco, and then it gets couriered over to him in Okinawa.

You mentioned how expensive shipping was to you....so I guess items such as these can not go the same type of route?

You have your receiver and disc player? I guess you can just get that stuff through the exchange...right?

[Jonnyozero3]

Jonny...if I remember correctly, I first "ran" into you right after I got my Ascends.

Yeah, that sounds right. How long ago was that? I guess I did delay actually joining the forum for a while...

[Jonnyozero3]

Cool. I ordered mine yesterday to, the 23-23 system. I just don't know when I'll get them, could be next week or two months from now. Shipping to overseas can be a real pain. Curtis was right, they do give a military discount and it was more than I was expecting. Great company to do business with. They may get more business once people here get a chance to hear my system.

Congrats on the order! Feels good doesn't it? The military discount was a great surprise - it was much more than I expected also. They also gave me a very good price on the HK AVR-435 which helped a ton. I'm sure I will be sending potential customers their way - (Can't wait to have a friend who has Klipsch Reference series and wants something more "comfortable" to listen to with movies - of course he has a dual 10" Sunfire sub....now I want to hear that!).

[curtis]

Yeah, that sounds right. How long ago was that? I guess I did delay actually joining the forum for a while...
It has been almost exactly two years since I first got Ascends. When doing the research, the two people, members of this board, that had posts or reviews that I read were BradJudy and Ben_Wood.

[Jonnyozero3]

Wow - that's probably around the time I was looking at Aperion and Axiom, only took me a few weeks to find ascend and I've been hooked ever since. Shipping email says they'll be here thursday...woohoo!

[Jonnyozero3]

Dia..Dia...Diagrams:
http://community.webshots.com/album/109804667bgmVCV?444

Okay guys - I need some help with a big decision regarding my front projector screen placement and the 340 center channel. I have two options (and note their +'s and -'s):

1) Original Idea: 340 Center sits on a 28" high stand for a total of 35.5" of height. CBM-170s are on 30" stands. 100" diag PJ screen starts at 36" and goes up 49" plus a small border right to the ceiling.

+ 340c lines up well with CBM-170s for great sound (4.25in difference b/t 340 tweeter & middle of the 170s)
- CBM-170s are closer to .80 than .73 on that placement ratio in the Ascend manual due to screen width which is dictated by the PJ placement.
- PJ screen starts high, could be fatiguing (18.2 degree viewing angle)
- PJ sits on desk 36" about 6 inches behind the head of the middle couch cushion - spews hot lamp heat and makes fan noise (I can sit and not slouch and be fine)

2) Drop 340 10 inches lower: Change 340 stand option to an 18" stand for a total of 25.5" of height. 170s are still at 30". 96-100" PJ screen starts around 28" and leaves about 7 inches of room before the ceiling. PJ gets mounted on underhang (remember photos) overhead the primary listening/watching position.

+ PJ screen is more to eye level
+ PJ isn't behind/just above the head of the middle couch person
+ More flexibility in screen size with a ceiling mount
+ I can get closer to the CBM-170 .73 placement ratio from the Ascend manual by lowering the screen size to 96" or 98"
- 340's tweeter is now 14.25" lower than the center of the CBM-170s.

Basically, I have a choice between audio and video here. I don't want to compromise either way but it looks like I have little choice. I really wanted to have an even soundstage across the front, but how much would it cost me sonically to have the 340 14 inches lower than the 170s?

[BGHD]

So far, how does it sound? Do you like the H/K?

[BGHD]

Disregard. Just saw your other "Review..." thread.