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View Full Version : Ok, I got a cheapie 563a on eBay...



jimsiff
03-24-2005, 06:50 PM
I got a refurb from Pioneer off eBay. It ended up costing me $100... a bit more than I wanted, but at least I've got a warantee that I can use to update the firmware if not already done at a Pioneer service center.

I need to know if the Pioneer 54tx will do bass management on the analog multichannel inputs. I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath. The manual is pretty vague about bass management, but it does say the following:

"You canít use any signal processing features (for example, the MOVIE or MUSIC modes or the tone controls) with the multichannel analog inputs."

That doesn't sound promising, but they may not include the bass management crossover in their definition of "signal processing features."

Kpt_Krunch
03-25-2005, 01:43 AM
I'm not familiar with the inner working of the pio 54tx. I hope for you sake there is BM - as at the small setting the crossover on the 563a is set to 200 hz on DVD-A and 120 hz for SACD.

If you don't mind spending double on an external bass manager (if your Pio doesn't do it that is) I would highly reccommed the Outlaw ICBM. You may even get lucky and get a B-stock item for $199 with free shipping. Believe me, it will be the best $199 you ever spent!

If your not familiar with it - you cable from the preouts of the Pio 563a into the ICBM, then from the ICBM to your receiver's inputs. The settings on the 563a must be set to large - you want a full range signal for every speaker sent to the ICBM. You then set the crossover point for your front L/R, Center, Surround L/R, and a back center option as well if you have it. The crossover settings start at 40hz, and move up in 20 hz increments until it reaches 120 hz. All bass below your setting, plus the LFE of course, is sent to your sub. You also have two settings for your sub, an LFE gain and a volume gain. This is great - especially when listening to some DVD-A's that run a hot bass (Metallica's Black Album has a hot bass track), so you can turn it down (or up) without ever monkeying with the gain on your sub (which is presumably already calibtrated for DD and DTS).

The only drawback(?) with the ICBM is that you cannot set up a delay on any speaker. Apparently, if you do the ICBM will not work properly. I tried it and did not notice any difference in perfomrance, but I also have a relatively small room. In a larger room, this may be a problem and potentially a deal killer for some people.

jimsiff
03-25-2005, 12:27 PM
I'm not familiar with the inner working of the pio 54tx. I hope for you sake there is BM - as at the small setting the crossover on the 563a is set to 200 hz on DVD-A and 120 hz for SACD.

Yeah, that's the big issue with the 563 is the BM. I was planning to set the speakers as large in the 563 to keep the SACD signal in DSD format before it's converted to analog by the DAC. I'm really hoping the 54tx does BM on the analog inputs. All I want is an 80 hz crossover frequency and speaker distance.


If you don't mind spending double on an external bass manager (if your Pio doesn't do it that is) I would highly reccommed the Outlaw ICBM. You may even get lucky and get a B-stock item for $199 with free shipping. Believe me, it will be the best $199 you ever spent!

I'd rather not need an ICBM, but I'm sure it's worth the $199. I'm just kicking myself a bit because now I've sunk $380 into two DVD players to net the same functionality as one HDMI upconverting uniplayer. If I get a B stock ICBM, I'm near the same price as a new Denon 2910. Oh well... not every decision we make is perfect. :D


You also have two settings for your sub, an LFE gain and a volume gain. This is great - especially when listening to some DVD-A's that run a hot bass (Metallica's Black Album has a hot bass track), so you can turn it down (or up) without ever monkeying with the gain on your sub (which is presumably already calibtrated for DD and DTS).

That is a nice feature. Since the 563's LFE output is down 10 db, I can bump the LFE by 10 db, then use the volume to trim the combined >80 hz+LFE signal to the correct level without monkeying with my receiver or sub gain.


The only drawback(?) with the ICBM is that you cannot set up a delay on any speaker. Apparently, if you do the ICBM will not work properly. I tried it and did not notice any difference in perfomrance, but I also have a relatively small room. In a larger room, this may be a problem and potentially a deal killer for some people.

This is interesting, but understandable. I would guess that if you set speaker delay in the DVD player, then processed the 5.1 signal with the ICBM, you could end up with subwoofer signal problems like time misalignment and muddy response. The LFE channel would have >80 hz signals from the 5 main channels, but at slightly different time alignments combined with the LFE track at a potentially different alignment.

That said, I don't see why you couldn't do speaker delay at the receiver, post ICBM processing. If you let the ICBM process the signal first, I can't see why there'd be any time alignment problems. I would imagine that receivers with BM and time alignment do the BM processing prior to time alignment to avoid this same issue.

Thanks for the great information. I hope to get by without an ICBM, but if my receiver doesn't do BM on the analog 5.1 inputs, I will look at the Outlaw.

jimsiff
03-30-2005, 02:55 PM
Well, it looks like the ICBM is on my short list of new components. My 54tx doesn't do any bass management, EQ, or speaker delay for the 5.1 analog inputs.

I can't put my 5 main channels equidistant from me in my current room. The surrounds will be about 5' closer than my L/C/R. How adverse will the effect be on SQ? I eventually plan to move my HT gear to a 15x20 semi-dedicated room downstairs, but not for 6-9 months at least. My speaker placement issues will be greatly diminished.