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CraigT
02-22-2005, 08:47 AM
I have 340 mains with HSU VTF-2 and H/K AVR 430. I listen primarily to 2ch music. I am finding that I prefer listening to 2ch without sub due to a perceived clarity that is not present with sub...which is what DaveF mentions in another thread. I am convinced, however, this is more due to processed vs. unprocessed audio. For the AVR 430 to filter out the bass it digitizes(D/A) the signal and then converts it back to two analog(D/A) signals. Can anyone (hint, DaveF) comment on this?

curtis
02-22-2005, 08:55 AM
I think DaveF mentioned he didn't like the bass in some of today's CD/mixes. There seems to be more and more emphasis on bass in music nowadays.

That said, the performance of a sub has a lot to do with placement and calibration. I know in my room, there are listening areas where the bass sounds spot on, and others where it sounds off.

Many people of told me that EQing the sub for a particular listening area is a "revelation". Because there is more emphasis on bass, I think the EQing of the sub is going to be more and more important for great sound.

Just my 2 cents.

bikeman
02-22-2005, 10:37 AM
"Many people of told me that EQing the sub for a particular listening area is a "revelation". Because there is more emphasis on bass, I think the EQing of the sub is going to be more and more important for great sound."


As some of you know, I've just EQ'ed my inexpensive 10" Dayton sub with a BFD. The difference is night and day. Run a sweep of your sub in it's current location and see if there are any peaks. I had one that was 14db higher centered around 60hz. Once I tamed that one, it was a whole new sub. I plan to fine tune the freq. response when I have more time. I don't expect any earth shaking change in the sound like I experienced with the 60hz flattening however.

David

curtis
02-22-2005, 12:14 PM
I'm lazy.....

My Sherwood/Newcastle P-965 is suppose have a firmware upgrade that will enable auto-EQ. Although, I am skeptical about auto-EQing the speakers, I do want to do the sub, and the firmware upgrade is suppose to allow for that. So I am in a wait and see mode.

Velodyne also has a standalone auto-EQ for the sub coming out this year as well.

More than one person has tried to talk me into getting a Behringer unit.....who knows, I still might.

BradJudy
02-22-2005, 12:58 PM
I thought about picking up a BFD, but am considering R-DES once it is available. I have played with the corresponding software and it's very well done. Unfortunately, it's a good bit more expensive than the BFD.

I think the VTF-2 is a very capable and good sounding sub (I'm biased since I own one) and I have been happy with it for the past 2+ years. Once I actually do some more in-depth measurements, I may be inclined to EQ it one way or another.

Abhi
02-22-2005, 02:55 PM
I am enjoying my CBM-170s and VTF-2 with BFD. Before and after BFD is a night and day difference, as bikeman has already pointed out. I can't think of a system without sub-frequency room correction now. BradJudy, R-DES may be a better equipment than BFD, but it has just 4 bands of PEQ, where as BFD has 11 (or 12?) filters available which let you fine tune the response very accurately. I think BFD is just good enough for the bass equalization. Now there is HK 635 which does this and more with its EZ-Setup/Eq automatically.

curtis
02-22-2005, 02:57 PM
R-DES is going to be nice, but the Velo unit will only be $100(retail) more and much more capable.

curtis
02-22-2005, 02:59 PM
One thing about that HK 635 and its EQ abilities.....there are no specs available....so you don't know what it is doing or how many bands/filters it has.

BradJudy
02-22-2005, 03:18 PM
The Velo item has some benefits (not having to connect to a computer and having a remote - I don't expect R-DES will ever have either of these) and I think each will have their fans. I like the R-DES software and being a computer guy I prefer using computer software over the TV interface of the Velo (couldn't they do something to make it look less Atari like?). Admittedly, the ability to throw a stone and hit either AV123 offices or Mark's house gives R-DES a benefit for me that other people don't get from it.

Hopefully R-DES will follow up with nice measurement and auto-EQ functions, although future features shouldn't be primary factors in purchase decisions.

Personally, I'm curious where SVS and Hsu will fall in selling/recommending EQ products. I know SVS already sells two pro EQ options, but I bet they are playing with these new generation EQs intended specifically for subs.

curtis
02-22-2005, 03:42 PM
That's like me with Ascend and Hsu......if I wanted to, I could go bug James and David at lunch.

I'm a computer guy too.....and think the R-DES interface looks slick....but I don't want to hook something up to my system to be able to tweak it. Now if I had an HTPC, hooking up R-DES to it would be a no brainer, as well as something like TrueRTA.

Isn't Pong making a comeback? :D

CraigT
02-24-2005, 05:23 AM
What I'm talking about is not related to balancing the the speakers as you guys are talking about. I run the sub pretty lean. The changes I notice are more in the mids and highs and is somewhat hard to describe but I'll try: a little less reverberation, vocals are a little less "breathy", soundstaging is diminished.

The real test would be to turn the cross-over on the H/K to its lowest setting and then turn the sub off. I could A/B between no sub/no crossover and no sub with crossover engaged. Haven't had time to play like that lately.

curtis
02-24-2005, 07:01 AM
ahhh....OK.

What crossover setting do you use?

Eddie Horton
02-24-2005, 08:04 AM
Well, after all the talk lately about EQing subs on the various forums, I'm going today to pick up a BFD. It's cheap and it will give me something new to play with for a while. My Yamaha HTR-5790 will do EQing of the main speakers, but I never liked the sound. It reminds me of THX processing with the highs rolled off. Maybe I like a brighter, more forward sound, but the YPAO system that Yamaha uses never did much for me. I do have some nasty humps in my sub response, so I'm hoping I'll get the same "night and day" result that others have with the BFD.

Eddie Horton
02-24-2005, 08:39 AM
After calling every place in Birmingham, Alabama, no one has one in stock. I'll have to order one.

CraigT
02-25-2005, 05:29 AM
Curtis,

Normally I use 80HZ crossover on the H/K 430. I'm not sure what the lowest crossover is on that. For the purposes of the test I propose it is hopefully be much lower than the 55Hz -3db point of the 340's.

jermy4
02-25-2005, 09:03 AM
After calling every place in Birmingham, Alabama, no one has one in stock. I'll have to order one. partsexpress has them at a really reasonable price.

Derek
02-25-2005, 09:45 AM
This velodyne eq sounds interesting. Anyone got any links to specs/teasers/etc?

Derek

curtis
02-25-2005, 09:49 AM
This velodyne eq sounds interesting. Anyone got any links to specs/teasers/etc?

Derek

There is a thread on it at AVS somewhere. When I get a chance, I will search for it.

Eddie Horton
02-25-2005, 10:59 AM
Yeah, PE has the BFD for 99 bucks right now. I'll get one from them.

jermy4
02-25-2005, 11:13 AM
Yeah, PE has the BFD for 99 bucks right now. I'll get one from them. You'll need two of these too: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=090-285

ClutchBrake
02-25-2005, 11:28 AM
It is $99 everywhere now. I love partsexpress but their shipping can be ridiculous. If you have a favorite toy store that offers free shipping you can probably save a few bucks.

bikeman
02-25-2005, 01:00 PM
I don't have the invoice in front of me but the shipping from Parts Express was quite reasonable on the BFD. I like their customer service so I tend to buy from them when I can. Shipping on my sub was only $12.

David

BradJudy
02-25-2005, 01:46 PM
zzounds.com has it for $99 with free shipping.

Eddie Horton
03-07-2005, 02:22 PM
Finally got around to ordering my BFD yesterday, so it should ship today. I'll post back when I get everything up and running.

CraigT
03-07-2005, 05:51 PM
Nothing against BFDs (what's a BFD?) but there hasn't been much response to my original post. Am I out in left field or do I have valid observations? I'm in the process of moving so I haven't done any serious A/Bing yet.

jermy4
03-07-2005, 05:58 PM
Nothing against BFDs (what's a BFD?) but there hasn't been much response to my original post. Am I out in left field or do I have valid observations? I'm in the process of moving so I haven't done any serious A/Bing yet. If I were to guess, your sub was probably boomy because of where it was placed in the room. If you have a SPL meter you should run a FR graph.

Instructions can be found here: http://www.snapbug.ws/bfd.htm

Quinn
03-07-2005, 06:28 PM
I have 340 mains with HSU VTF-2 and H/K AVR 430. I listen primarily to 2ch music. I am finding that I prefer listening to 2ch without sub due to a perceived clarity that is not present with sub...which is what DaveF mentions in another thread. I am convinced, however, this is more due to processed vs. unprocessed audio. For the AVR 430 to filter out the bass it digitizes(D/A) the signal and then converts it back to two analog(D/A) signals. Can anyone (hint, DaveF) comment on this?

What is your crossover setting when using the sub? How did you calibrate your sub? You have a VTF model have you tried the other setting for music?

CraigT
03-09-2005, 04:17 PM
Quinn,

I run at 80Hz crossover. For calibration I use the MC 900 Foot Jesus method. That is, I put on the most bass heavy music I have and adjust the sub level to where it is not overpowering. I'm guessing from all the talk about balancing with meters and such I'm going to have to invest in one so that it rules out level balancing as a possible culprit. So after I've done that I'll check back in and report my findings. I'm convinced it is related to signal conversion but I have been wrong at least once before :)

curtis
03-11-2005, 11:34 AM
Craig,

Last night I was listening to one of my favorite CDs, something I had not listen to much in a while.

My pre/pro has an auto speaker setup function....sets the levels of the speakers (not EQ)....and I had not listen to the CD since I ran the auto-setup.

Anyways...the bass did not sound good/right....no definition and bloated/boomy. I lowered the sub channel by 1dB......and it sounded great again. I was amazed that 1dB could make that much difference.