PDA

View Full Version : New Forum Member & Ascend Owner



Nicholas Mosher
02-19-2005, 08:17 AM
Thanks to the guys at Ascend for helping me complete my forum registration. I was having trouble receiving eMails.

My name is Nick and I should receive my order for five CBM-170s (w/upright center) in a few days. Over the past few months I've been slowly piecing together my first big HT setup (components are in my signature). Previous to this I've been using a self-built Home Theater PC. With all the rave reviews at audioreview.com and independant magazines, I figured I'd give them a shot. The flat response curve also was a factor in my decision. Spending time at local music stores, I found my favorite speakers to be Thiels and Paradigm Studio 20s. The Thiels were $3000+/pr and the Studio 20s were $750/pr. My decision to go with five 170s was influenced by my room size (18' x 11') and intended application (Home Theater and Multichannel Audio). I'm looking for equal sound all the way around.

Anyhoo, I'll be sure to post initial impressions along with a review once they're broken in. Pictures will be included as well. Nice to be here!

Lee Bailey
02-19-2005, 08:28 AM
Welcome Nicholas, I too am new to the Ascend World. I recently replaced my L/C/R Polk Audio Speakers with a set of 340's. I love the sound. I'm sure you'll enjoy yours as well.

Quinn
02-19-2005, 08:45 AM
I went from Paradigm Mini-Monitors to Ascend 170s. I think outside of the bottom end extension the 170 can hold it's own with the Studio 20. I now have 340s and think with a sub like the STF-1 from Hsu it would be fair game to have them in a listening comparision with Studio 100s.

Kpt_Krunch
02-19-2005, 08:55 AM
I went from Paradigm Mini-Monitors to Ascend 170s. I think outside of the bottom end extension the 170 can hold it's own with the Studio 20. I now have 340s and think with a sub like the STF-1 from Hsu it would be fair game to have them in a listening comparision with Studio 100s.

Quinn - I don't think that that would be very a very fair comparison. I've heard the Studio 100's, though did not get a chance to listen critcally (another person was demoing, I just kind of snuck in so to speak :)) and though it is a great speaker, I don't recall it having the detail that the Ascends offer due to the fact that the Ascend doesn't need to try to reproduce the bass that the 100 was doing. I believe that by reproducing that bass, the 100 then loses some of the detail it should offer. This was the reason I decided on bookshelves to begin with - a good bookshelf will beat a good floorstander for detail any day - and with an added sub (as you mentioned) you'll have the same bass as the floorstander and then some.

To me - I would compare the Studio 20 with the same sub to the 170's, and the Studio 40 with the same sub to the 340's, that would be a more apples to apples comparo - I have heard the 40's, and their wonderful speaker but IMO at their price point they are not as good as the 340's. That being said, if the 340's 'were' the same price as the Studio 40's, it would be a very tough decision knowing what I know now as to which speaker I would buy, but I am a biased person so I would still pick the Ascend ;)

curtis
02-19-2005, 09:32 AM
Kpt.....myself and three other guys got to compare my 340's side by side with Studio 60's a little over a year ago. With a sub, the 340's sounded better to all of us. The other speaker in the room was a B&W CDM7 NT....the 340 with a sub could hang with that guy too.

Lou-the-dog
02-19-2005, 12:10 PM
Welcome Nicholas! By the looks of your equipment list, you've done a fine job putting together a killer system.

Randy

Nicholas Mosher
02-19-2005, 03:34 PM
Thanks guys, I'm really hoping they work out. In my experience playing around at hifi stores, I also found that when set up right, you don't lose much of anything by going monitors/sub. I had to A/B Studio 100s+Sub with 20s+Sub to even notice the slight difference. The price difference wasn't "slight" at all though.

I started reading reviews back in August for speakers, amplifiers, pre/pros, and DVD-A players. I really wanted to make a "Bang for the Buck" seperates setup, and bought things piece by piece so I don't have to make payments on anything. Snagged most of the stuff on sale or on clearence. I also just got the Avia calibration DVD along with a decibel meter to get the most out of my setup. Kinda broke now :D, but sometime next month I'm going to pick up a sub. I'm looking at the powered cylinders from SVS, but my eyes are still open to other possibilities. Most important thing is that the sub is ultra accurate. Output and extension are second to accuracy.

I should get the speakers on Tuesday. I can't wait! :eek:

http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/rack1.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/rack2.jpg

Lee Bailey
02-19-2005, 03:46 PM
Being the proud owner of an SVS 25-31PC, I can tell you that not a day of use goes by without being happy about my purchase.

curtis
02-19-2005, 04:07 PM
Nicholas....great stuff...you are going to get lots of enjoyment from your system. I also just purchased a Denon 2900.

Try and get out to listen to subs. While a lot of them look similar on paper, they sound different. Quite interesting when you get the subs in the same environment and compare them...nuances beginning to become clear.

Nicholas Mosher
02-19-2005, 04:33 PM
Lee, I've heard the SVS PCi 20-39, and definetly thought it was one of the better subs I've heard. I bet the 25-31 must be equally impressive.

I've listened to some of Paradigms lower end subs along with their Seismic 10. I didn't like any of them. Chatted via eMail briefly with Dr. Hsu, and he said to wait for his VTF-3HO. I should mention I'm a 22yr old apartment dweller, so I'm not looking for something that will shake the house off its foundation (I have the 1st floor, my landlord has the second). What I do want is very tight, responsive, and accurate bass at moderate output levels for multichannel DVD-A and SACD. I definetly plan to audition some of the servo controlled subs, but their prices are usually out of sight. My budget will be in the neighborhood of $1000. Nothing has really clicked 100% with me as it did with my other component choices... :confused:

curtis
02-19-2005, 05:02 PM
then I would suggest looking into a nice sealed sub. For $1K, you will find something for sure. I have heard many subs, and I am extremely happy with my VTF-3.

Nicholas Mosher
02-19-2005, 06:09 PM
Any suggestions curtis?
Sealed subs without port tubes have less output right? Does this increase response or something?

Throw me some brands that make sealed subs if you could.

curtis
02-19-2005, 09:45 PM
Sure....subs from ACI www.audioc.com, Adire www.adireaudio.com, AV123 www.av123.com.

Does it increase response? I don't think so.....just a different characteristic.

You really need to hear subs to understand their differences...not just ported and sealed, but brands as well.

Nicholas Mosher
02-21-2005, 07:06 AM
Thanks for the links curtis. I checked all the links out.

Adire seems to be DIY subs, unless I missed something. Already know about av123 (Rockets). They use 10" woofers which from what I hear don't really dig all that deep. The subs from audioc.com look interesting though. I'm going to check out their reviews.

I'm actually leaning towards the SVS 16-46 PCi. I was considering the PC-Ultra (still am), but I don't think I'll need a 525W amp for my room. The driver in the ultra certainly looks nicer, and the EQ is a nice touch, but I think the PCi series will be borderline overkill in themselves. $675 shipped vs $1200 shipped for the Ultra. I've heard the PCi series as I mentioned above, and it had what I was looking for.

I should get my CBM-170s tomorrow... I Can't Wait! :eek: :D

Mag_Neato
02-21-2005, 07:41 AM
I recently had the opportunity to listen to a Rocket UFW-10.

Let me tell you, I was impressed with the quality (and quantity) of bass from this little 13" cube! For a sealed 10" sub, the bass is fast and articulate.

it had NO problem with the "Darla" scene from Finding Nemo. It actually made my pants "flap"! Is it the last word in bottom end response? No.

For 90% of movies and music it is all most people would need. I'd trade some extension for the quality of bass this thing produces.

That said, maybe it is the sealed design that delivers the bass quality I seemed to like, and you could certainly find a sealed design that offers lower extension AND higher output......but at what cost?

Two of these would certainly increase the SPL, and av123 offers a twin UFW-10 package.

Quinn
02-21-2005, 07:59 AM
That said, maybe it is the sealed design that delivers the bass quality I seemed to like, and you could certainly find a sealed design that offers lower extension AND higher output......but at what cost?

Two of these would certainly increase the SPL, and av123 offers a twin UFW-10 package.

These from ACI would do it. http://www.audioc.com/speakers1/speakers.htm#acisubwoofers

Two identical subs co-located only raises the output by 6dBs.

The UFW-10 sub is my favorite AV123 product that I've heard.

curtis
02-21-2005, 08:27 AM
Nicholas, if you are after sound quality, move up the SVS line to the Pluses and Ultras.

The Adire Rava is not a DIY....their site is weird...you have to hit the home button for their products to show up.

Nicholas Mosher
02-21-2005, 11:41 AM
Definetly not looking for huge output, so two subs would be overkill.

While accuracy is my goal (I'm currently judging this by a flat frequency response, and level of distortion when I can find these charts), extension that dips below 20hz for orchestral and pod race type scenes is another consideration.

I do need it to blend well with my Ascends too, don't want any frequency gaps.

Check these out...
Frequency response for SVS 16-46 PCi
http://www.svsubwoofers.com/images/performancecharts/1646pci.jpg
Frequency response for Adire Rava
http://www.adireaudio.com/images/RavaFR.jpg
Both are exponentially compressed.

Just confused I guess. Almost everything I listened to in the hifi stores sounded like, well, crap. I'm real sensitive to boomy-ness, and that warm-fuzzy quality some subs have. I like everything cold and sharp if you can decipher my babble. Not sure how to explain it.

Nicholas Mosher
02-21-2005, 12:25 PM
Well for some reason I received one speaker today (WTF?).
The other four along with my stands should arrive tomorrow. However, this gives me the chance to have a good look at the build quality. Some pictures...

http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/cbm170-1.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/cbm170-2.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/cbm170-3.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/cbm170-4.jpg

Package was single boxed with foam corner braces. No damage. I was immediately suprised at the density of this little speaker. Cabinet is rock solid, with rounded corners and a textured black laminate of some sort. Binding posts are gold plated and of good quality. The grill is cheap (like most speaker grills I've seen), but I plan on using them without the grills anyways. The 6.5" driver has a very nice rubber surround. Actually quite impressed by it for the money. Phase plug seems to be solid using the finger tap test (can anyone verify this?). Everything is secure, and there is nothing loose internally. Build quality is definetly on par with speakers such as the Studio 20. Definetly not a furniture grade appearence, but I kinda like the simplicity of it. Hopefully I'll have everything hooked up tomorrow for my initial review of how they sound (before they're broken in), the real reason why I bought them...

So far so good though!

Mag_Neato
02-21-2005, 12:29 PM
Nice to see that Ascend put the new logo precisely where I located them :D

Quinn
02-21-2005, 01:18 PM
I think you'd be very happy with the UFW-10 from AV123 from the the bass desires you are describing. If not you're only out shipping.

S_rangeBrew
02-22-2005, 06:11 AM
Could you open up the back and make sure they are not using some kind of crappy single-cap crossover?






:D

Mag_Neato
02-22-2005, 07:00 AM
I don't think you need to worry about the caps used in the UFW-10.

From what I heard I think you would be happy with it.

Nicholas Mosher
02-22-2005, 07:29 AM
Hey Mag-Neato, that wasn't me asking about the crossover.
And I think he was asking me to take apart my 170, in which case I would have to decline :D

The real test is how they sound. I should have them hooked up today, and I'll post back with a note on how they sound right out of the box. Then of course I'll post my feelings as they break in.

Mag_Neato
02-22-2005, 07:49 AM
Oops! Sorry Nick.......n..e..e..d m..o..r..e c...off..eee!!

Nicholas Mosher
02-22-2005, 04:42 PM
Received all my speakers and stands today. Just finished assembling everything, and I'm ready to place/hook-up/calibrate.

Also picked up a little 13" TV to display menus and what not until I have the bucks for a nice projector.

http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/aa5.jpg

Dropped a 100' spool of wire on my big toe. :eek:

curtis
02-22-2005, 05:23 PM
Dropped a 100' spool of wire on my big toe. :eek:
OUCH!!!

jermy4
02-22-2005, 06:42 PM
Are those StudioTech SP speaker stands? I have a pair of the 36" models and they do look really nice with the 170s.

Nicholas Mosher
02-22-2005, 10:52 PM
Oh man, just finished positioning eveything, running wire, and initial calibration using the pre/pro setup menus. I had the Outlaw 950 volume at +10dB when the first tone went off at 11:30pm. My landlord must have soiled his sheets upstairs. I inhaled a cheez-it and almost passed out. :E

Couldn't turn it up too much this late, so it will have to wait until tomorrow.

Yeah they are Studio Techs. The 30" version. The tweeters are at perfect ear level from my seat. MAN is my big toe sore! :p

curtis
02-23-2005, 11:27 AM
looking forward to your impressions!

Nicholas Mosher
02-23-2005, 02:54 PM
Oh man, I love it! Makes my old PC setup seem like a HT-in-a-box. There is so much more definition and clarity in the music and soundtracks. I can also easily recognize poor DD5.1 mixing from good mixing.

Using the AVIA Disc, I got all the outputs for my five monitors within 1dB of each other from my sweetspot. Calibrated them to 85dB of output at the -20dB setting on my Outlaw 950. Using the sine wave output tone, I found the Ascends had an audible low frequency extension of 55Hz in my room. Thats pretty good when the reported anechoic response bottoms out at 69Hz.

Even though the Ascends aren't fully broken in yet, I'll give you guys an initial review of how they sound. The mid-bass/midrange is absolutely spectacular! The piano in "Rhapsody In Blue" from Fantasia 2000 sounds near perfect. I hope that tight accuracy doesn't burn off as it breaks in. I love it. The tweeter sounds very neutral as advertised. Combined with the accuracy of the midrange, the speakers sound great. Drums hit without any warmth or fuzzy decay. Can't emphasize enough how clear the midrange is. I think I ultimately prefer the edgy sound of metallic tweeters, but the neutral accuracy of these speakers so far is winning my heart.

I'm not sure how much of what I'm about to say is due to my equipment or the fact that I'm using five identical monitors placed in a semi-circle around me, but the soundstaging gives me a stupid grin. Closing my eyes and listening to Master and Commander in DTS almost made me lose my balance with the sounds of the ocean swelling back and forth. The use of the surrounds in Little Nemo is even further defined to my ears now. I think the AVIA calibration is an absolute must in acheiving a perfect soundstage. The gentle panning of the soundtrack like the sway of the anemone from the front mains to the surrounds and back is spectacular. I never noticed that subtle effect with my old setup.

I'd have to say that of everything I've bought so far, the AVIA/dB Meter combo was the best money I spent. Can't wait to get a sub to integrate with the Ascends. I'll probably be calling SVS in late March/Early April. More to come as the Ascends break in!

I should also note that low frequency response isn't flat, probably due to my room. I think an equalizer between my pre/pro and future sub will be a necessity for good DVD-A and SACD. I can see how a pre/pro like the Anthem AVM30 could make the experience even better.

curtis
02-23-2005, 03:20 PM
Outstanding!!


.....gives me a stupid grin.

that happens a lot around here.....

It only gets better......and just wait until you get a good sub integrated.

Enjoy!!

Nicholas Mosher
02-23-2005, 05:05 PM
I've found that running the center 2dB hot helps with making dialogue more intelligible when listening at volumes below reference. I also prefer the slightly forward nature this gives the center soundstage. Just enough to give the center onscreen action a little emphasis without ruining panorama effects.

I'm burning through my DVD collection re-listening to all my favorite scenes!

This is AWESOME!!! :-y

Lou-the-dog
02-23-2005, 07:39 PM
I'm pleased that the 170's are to your liking. IMHO the 170's really kick a$$.
Enjoy!!

Randy

Kpt_Krunch
02-23-2005, 10:11 PM
"sounds" like you have a nice setup Nick - I just hope when you get that sub you don't pi$$ your landlord off too much ;)

If I were you, I'd make sure to invite him over for movie night once in a while so he doesn't kick you out :D

In my lengthy review I had to cut out (it was originally over 17,000 characters, but max here on the forum is 10,000) my impressions of Finding Nemo and the swaying of the anemone. I never heard that on my original setup (just the water) and I found it unbelievable. And my setup before this was not exactly chopped liver (in fact, it cost me almost the exact same amount as what the landed cost of the Ascends were - but the Ascends are a huge upgrade to what I had before).

BradJudy had written a review a few years ago and he referenced the movie "A Thin Red Line" that also has some subtle sound effects that many speakers will not pick up. I just picked up that movie tonight and am looking forward to watching it this weekend. It's the little things that I am always impressed with (any speaker can play an obvious sound byte). The only thing I don't like about my speakers, is when watching a movie and my son sneaks out of bed. Sometimes I think it is the noises I hear are coming from the speakers, and the problem is when I go upstairs to check, 9 times out of 10 it is the speakers, but that 10th time :eek:

Nicholas Mosher
02-24-2005, 03:04 PM
Thin RedLine is a good movie (I own it as well). Many quiet scenes of reflection using gentle sounds from grassy fields, forests, and the sea. Really helps you to recognize the ability of your equipment too when you go from these tranquil scenes to explosions, machine guns, and lots of voices. I'm very pleased with my setup so far.

Nicholas Mosher
02-26-2005, 01:56 PM
I just posted my review of the CBM-170s in the review section of the forum. Hopefully the mods will post it for you guys to see.

Nicholas Mosher
03-03-2005, 06:04 PM
I've really been giving the HSU VTF-3 MK2 alot of thought. The more reviews I read, the better it looks. I guess the only way to find out how good it sounds will be to test it by purchasing one. Still saving up though.

jimsiff
03-03-2005, 10:29 PM
I'll vouch for the VTF3 Mk II. I'm in the process of building my Ascend/Hsu system. I just completed my 340 LCR front stage and have the VTF3 Mk II. Next step will be the 170 surrounds.

As to the Hsu, it's a great sub. I've played various music and DVD tracks using my 340/VTF3 in a 2.1 setup, and the speed and accuracy of the VTF3 is it's main asset in my book. That and it can play +/- 1db to 20 hz with prodigious output. :D I'm filling a 15x24 room with a vaulted ceiling, two open stairwells, and a large open door connecting to another 15x20 room. I don't feel I need a second sub at all.