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dae3dae3
02-16-2005, 05:57 AM
I currently have Def Tech BP6B speakers with a Denon DRA-395 stereo receiver and a Paradigm PDR10 subwoofer. What do you guys think the best upgrade path would be. I can't afford to upgrade the whole setup at one time so I have come up with two possible upgrade paths that eventually lead to the same setup but have very different intermediate results.

Option 1:
340's for left right and center in front, move BP6B's to the back for surrounds, get surround receiver. Keep same sub (not much output in my room) and get a better one in a year or two.

My analysis: In this scenario I upgrade to surround sound from stereo but my sub still is poor for my room.

Option 2: Stay in stereo. Get 340's for left and right front. Get HSU VTF3-II sub. Put BP6B in attic until upgrade to surround later. Sell Paradigm sub to someone with a smaller room. In a year or two get the 340 center channel and a surround receiver.

My ananlysis: In this scenario I get much better stereo sound (from what you guys tell me,) I get a real subwoofer :D , but I don't get surround and I put $600 worth of speakers in storage. (that's kind of painful for me) :(

I use the system for both music and movies. I know I am asking for opinions but please let me know what you think.

Lee Bailey
02-16-2005, 06:09 AM
I would go with Option 1. You can live with the subwoofer.

bikeman
02-16-2005, 06:32 AM
I think you have two good options. I had a similar situation and I went with the 340M's and bought a BFD to help my Dayton (the inexpensive one) sub smooth out it's response. I've been very happy with the results. So I voted for option one. It's a tough call. I went back and forth for some time.

David

Quinn
02-16-2005, 07:46 AM
Sell the Def Techs, Denon, and PDR that should add $6-700 to your budget. Then pick up this used Hsu VTF-2 http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homesubw&1113494635 or if this is music first HT second set-up. It would be difficult to beat this deal http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=stock&product=69.1 . Then grab a digital Panny receiver, or see what kind package deal Ascend can give you on a HK, and watch for some used 170s to come up for the surrounds. Used Paradigms go for stupid money.

dae3dae3
02-16-2005, 04:51 PM
Quinn,

We'll have to call that super secret Option # 3. :)

Actually, I am trying to talk myself into Option #1 except that every time I almost convince myself, I start thinking about the cool low bass scenes I have been missing in movies. Believe it or not I also do have some Organ music in my CD collection. Also, the idea of being able to knock a picture off the wall with my sub (when my wife isn't home) appeals to the manly he-man "more power" strain in me. :cool:

Still, I am leaning towards #1 right now. That will probably change within the next five minutes though.

Any other opinions out there?

Lee Bailey
02-18-2005, 09:59 AM
You'll have to use option 1 if you want to hear the real kick in the movies, even with your current sub, since you currently do not have an LFE signal being fed to your current unit. Where do you have the sub placed at in the room?

dae3dae3
02-18-2005, 05:25 PM
I have the sub in the front corner next to the right speaker. I have moved the sub around alot and this has proved to be the best spot.

So if I am listening to movies in stereo I am totally missing the low frequencies on the DVD? I thought that since there is no bass management on the receiver it would just send out full range to everything.

curtis
02-18-2005, 05:50 PM
I really depends on the DVD and how the DVD player is hooked up to the receiver.

The .1 channel or LFE channel on Dolby Digital and DTS encoded discs is dedicated. If you are just listening in stereo, this channel may or may not have been mixed into the stereo channels.

Now if you are hooked up to your receiver via a digital connection, and allowing the receiver to decode the Dolby Digital or DTS stream, you have the receiver setup to no sub, then most AV receivers will route the LFE information to the mains. But since you are using a stereo receiver, I doubt this is the case.


I have the sub in the front corner next to the right speaker. I have moved the sub around alot and this has proved to be the best spot.

So if I am listening to movies in stereo I am totally missing the low frequencies on the DVD? I thought that since there is no bass management on the receiver it would just send out full range to everything.

dae3dae3
02-18-2005, 06:49 PM
With that information in mind I am leaning even more heavily toward option #1. I didn't realize that LFE was a discrete channel. With that in mind, even if I got a better sub I still would not hear the full advantage of it unless I had a surround receiver. :(

If you just heard a large clunking sound, that was a few pieces of the puzzle falling into place for me.

curtis
02-18-2005, 07:19 PM
Oh yeah...in 5.1....every channel is discrete and mixed that way.

GodsMadClown
03-24-2005, 07:53 AM
If you setup your DVD player to send the outputs a ful range signal, and have the subwoofer between your signal and the speakers, you will get the LFE information. On any decent DVD player, that is...

dae3dae3
03-24-2005, 10:02 AM
If you setup your DVD player to send the outputs a ful range signal, and have the subwoofer between your signal and the speakers, you will get the LFE information. On any decent DVD player, that is...

I have a good Sony DVD player but it is about 5 years old. My receiver doesn't have any digital inputs so I will have to look to see if the DVD player has an option for sending LFE out though the analog outs. I didn't see it before but it can't hurt to look again. I know that it is currently not sending the LFE info out because when I play the LFE test tones on my DVE test DVD no sound comes out of the speakers.

Thanks,

Darren

Mag_Neato
03-24-2005, 10:10 AM
If you don't have a digital signal to the receiver, you are only sending a standard analog stereo signal to it.

What this means is, the receiver treats it like any other analog stereo signal. So if you run Pro-logic, there is not a seperate .1, or LFE, signal being produced. You must have Pro-logicII or IIx to simulate that aspect of discrete digital surround from ordinary analog sources.(At least that's my understanding). Any experts please feel free to make corrections!

tjennings
10-06-2005, 07:32 PM
Definitely option 1 - I remember being in the same boat about, hmmm, 15 years ago now? When I went from stereo to surround... wow... you are in for a real treat! Enjoy!

dae3dae3
10-07-2005, 04:54 AM
Man, you dredged up an old question I asked. :)

I actually went for super-secret option x.

I was upset at my wife one day and ordered 340's all across the front, a Pioneer 1015, and an SVS 25-31 PC+ and have been rockin out ever since. :D

Now I am looking at getting an EQ for the sub since my room is very acoustically challenged. I'm probably going to get a BFD since it is inexpensive and gets the job done.

tjennings
10-07-2005, 04:27 PM
Wow, you are right, I thought it said 9/24/05, not 3/24/05! Thats what I get for trying to read right before bedtime with bleary eyes. Well, at any rate, sounds like you've a great system now - CONGRATS! I can't wait until my three 340's for the front arrive in about 2 weeks.

Drew.Ri
11-22-2005, 06:01 AM
OK, I'm newly registered on this forum, so please forgive the simple stupidity of my question. But, what is a BFD? I am currently waiting on the funds to come in and the final permission from the wife to get a 340C and 170 mains, along with probably a VTF2. I am just starting to look into room acoustics and stuff so that I can really get the best sound. I was conecerned about an uneven bass response from the sub if I couldn't find a good spot for it. From your posts it seems that you are looking at using an inexpensive (cheap, yeah!) BFD to help the sub. So, that brings me back to my question, what is it?

Mag_Neato
11-22-2005, 07:11 AM
This (http://www.snapbug.ws/bfd.htm) is a BFD.

It's a parametric equalizer people use for taming their subs in-room frequency response to flatten it out.

Drew.Ri
11-22-2005, 07:25 AM
Ah, I see. Thanks. Hopefully when I get my sub I will get lucky with weird room acoustics that all work in harmony perfectly cause I think my wife would kill me if bought another piece of equipement just to get the latest toy to work right. Can't wait to get started on this. I think taking care of room acoustics is gonna be a lot of fun.