Amplifier shopping...decisions decisions

[PersonalTriumph]

Greetings all,

Ascend newbie here and proud owner of a fabulous pair of Sierra 2EX's in gorgeous espresso finish.

I've decided the Ascends need an upgrade in the power department, so as the subject says I'm amplifier shopping. The source will be an NAD C658 streamer / preamp as well as a Tascam CD-200BT CD player. The Ascends are complemented by an SVS SB-2000 subwoofer.

Here are the amp contenders:

PS Audio Stellar S300
Nord One SE NC500 DM MKII
Class D Audio GaN FET monoblocks
Orchard Audio Starkrimson monoblocks
Nord Four SE (either monoblocks or stereo version)

Any strong feelings about the above list? My budget is $2000 or thereabouts. I'm reading really good things about the GaN FET amps, which is why the last three are on the list. Thanks!

[racrawford65]

D-Sonic is another option for Class D, as is VTV amplifier. I've heard the D-Sonic at Dennis' showroom - really nice. I use a VTV 4-ch Pascal for my ATMOS speakers and is nice for the price/application.

That said, Dave has generally recommended Class AB amps for RAAL tweeters on this forum. Many options here - Monoprice Monolith, ATI, Outlaw, Rogue (if you are into tubes, although they also have some hybrids), etc.

[PersonalTriumph]

Why A/B in particular? Just curious.

[Pogre]

What are you using right now? More power never hurts, but keep in mind that even doubling your power will net you only 3 dB gain in volume, and depending on what you have now I wouldn't necessarily expect any improvements or differences outside of that. If you're reaching the volumes you like now without distortion any additional power just sits on reserve unused.

Check out this spl calculator. A note about it, it's only accurate for 8 ohm loads, but it's a neat little tool I like to play with that does a good job of showing the relation between power, distance and volume.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Amplification is very mature tech and most of the major manufacturers have pushed the distortion figures so low that the minute measured differences are all inaudible so there's no need to dump big dollars into some of the more expensive options out there. Racrawford tossed out some great suggestions. I have a Monolith 7 (basically an ATI amp, a top manufacturer) and it sounds fantastic. Gobs of power on hand, and sota measurements. I've never heard it misbehave even at some pretty spirited volume levels.

[Pogre]

Why A/B in particular? Just curious.

More efficient than A, and it's a tried and tested design. Pure class A is nice if you have need for a space heater tho I s'pose... :p

Don't sleep on class D either. That tech is catching up to good A/B designs and is even more efficient. I've been reading good things about the Hypex amps.

[racrawford65]

Pogre's answer on a/b is spot on.

You may be fine with class D -- as I recall, the ability of the RAAL to reproduce extremely high frequencies + way class D amplifies had something to do with his recommendation. Not everyone is likely sensitive to it.

Hypex are nice modules. When I was researching class D, consensus was Hypex (good), Pascal (better), Purifi (even better). That was a few years ago and I'm sure implementation plays a role (eg op amps)

[PersonalTriumph]

What are you using right now?

Yamaha MX-1. It's a good amp but old and it had a hard life before I rescued it. I just thought I might find something more refined.

[Pogre]

Pogre's answer on a/b is spot on.

You may be fine with class D -- as I recall, the ability of the RAAL to reproduce extremely high frequencies + way class D amplifies had something to do with his recommendation. Not everyone is likely sensitive to it.

Hypex are nice modules. When I was researching class D, consensus was Hypex (good), Pascal (better), Purifi (even better). That was a few years ago and I'm sure implementation plays a role (eg op amps)

Yeah, right now A/B is a pretty safe bet. Jury is still out on class D, but like I said the tech is catching up. Gene over at Audioholics has some models in the chute for testing in the near future so I'm curious to see what he finds. I'm not all the way on the class D bandwagon yet, but it's looking promising.

[Pogre]

Yamaha MX-1. It's a good amp but old and it had a hard life before I rescued it. I just thought I might find something more refined.

The MX-1 looks like a pretty solid amp already. Chances are you're not going to get much more in the way of refinement with something different. More of a lateral move, imo, provided your current amp is still operating within spec. 15 - 20 years is getting up there in years tho...

A couple of things a lot of folks tend to overlook are placement and room acoustics. Are you using any eq for your subs? If you really want to make some significant gains a calibrated mic is invaluable. The 3 things that have made the biggest impact for me were quality speakers and subs first, a mic and REW to measure fr, and optimizing my room acoustics through positional eq and peq for my subs based on my measured fr results.

Adding a separate amp made zero difference in sq to my ears, outside of the ability to play louder without breaking up. That said, I do get it. I love my big powerful amp and makes me feel like my system is more stable at high volumes. I love seeing it in my equipment stand and don't regret the purchase. If I'm being completely honest tho, it did not take things to a new level or blow me away. Straightening out my bass fr did that.

[PersonalTriumph]

The MX-1 looks like a pretty solid amp already. Chances are you're not going to get much more in the way of refinement with something different. More of a lateral move, imo, provided your current amp is still operating within spec. 15 - 20 years is getting up there in years tho...

A couple of things a lot of folks tend to overlook are placement and room acoustics. Are you using any eq for your subs? If you really want to make some significant gains a calibrated mic is invaluable. The 3 things that have made the biggest impact for me were quality speakers and subs first, a mic and REW to measure fr, and optimizing my room acoustics through positional eq and peq for my subs based on my measured fr results.

Adding a separate amp made zero difference in sq to my ears, outside of the ability to play louder without breaking up. That said, I do get it. I love my big powerful amp and makes me feel like my system is more stable at high volumes. I love seeing it in my equipment stand and don't regret the purchase. If I'm being completely honest tho, it did not take things to a new level or blow me away. Straightening out my bass fr did that.

Ya know, the more research I do, the more I come to the conclusion that the difference between one amp and another can be summed up in one word: "marketing". So, I do think I'm going to save my shekels and stand pat with the Yammy.

I ran Dirac on the system yesterday (my "adventures" with this are documented in another thread...what a PITA...) And when all was said and done, I felt like Dirac took all the life and energy out of my system. Maybe I just like a more lively, bright, exciting sound...

[Pogre]

Ya know, the more research I do, the more I come to the conclusion that the difference between one amp and another can be summed up in one word: "marketing". So, I do think I'm going to save my shekels and stand pat with the Yammy.

I ran Dirac on the system yesterday (my "adventures" with this are documented in another thread...what a PITA...) And when all was said and done, I felt like Dirac took all the life and energy out of my system. Maybe I just like a more lively, bright, exciting sound...

Smart man. And yes, it's more about fluff marketing than actual audible performance. There is something to be said about beautiful build quality and pride of ownership for sure, just know what it is you're paying for. That said, I really love the look of Mac gear. If money were no object I'd prolly own one. As it is bang for buck I'm happy with my Mono 7.

Maybe I'll dip into your thread later. Do you have some fr sweeps we can look at? I saw the thread title but I don't have any experience with Dirac so don't know if I can offer you much. I do know it's pretty advanced and considered one of the best req programs available. I use MultEQ XT32 and a MiniDSP 2x4 HD with great results, but I'd really like to try Dirac sometime. I've read good things about it.

[PersonalTriumph]

Do you have some fr sweeps we can look at? I saw the thread title but I don't have any experience with Dirac so don't know if I can offer you much. I do know it's pretty advanced and considered one of the best req programs available. I use MultEQ XT32 and a MiniDSP 2x4 HD with great results, but I'd really like to try Dirac sometime. I've read good things about it.

Just posted a bunch of screenshots on the other thread.

[Mag_Neato]

I have to add my own experience here.

A few years ago I had the opportunity to listen to my system with a pair of mono block class D amps. They were Cherry Maraschinos from Digital Amplifier Company. I was running a big Adcom GFA-5500 (200w/ch) at the time. A friend was selling the Cherries at the time. Although I could not afford to buy them off him, he agreed to let me borrow them until he found a buyer.

At the risk of this sounding like a marketing ploy.. I have no affiliation with Digital Amp Co., I will just say that no other piece of audio gear has made such a profound difference in my system. I only left those little amps hooked up for 2 days because I was beginning to try scheming up a way to pay for them. When my friend finally found a buyer and came over to pick them up, I had them hooked up so he could hear them driving my Sierra-2's(now EX's). His jaw hit the floor. He just turned and stared at me slack-jawed. I nodded and told him that was why I had to pull them out after 2 days, otherwise I would've ended up in hhot water with my wife.

I currently run a Van Alstine SET-120 rated at "only" 60w/ch@8ohms, 120w/ch@4ohms. Class A/B biased to class A for the 1st 8-10 watts. It sounds great, but I hope some day I can once again hear those Cherries driving my Sierras.

[PersonalTriumph]

I have to add my own experience here.

A few years ago I had the opportunity to listen to my system with a pair of mono block class D amps. They were Cherry Maraschinos from Digital Amplifier Company. I was running a big Adcom GFA-5500 (200w/ch) at the time. A friend was selling the Cherries at the time. Although I could not afford to buy them off him, he agreed to let me borrow them until he found a buyer.

At the risk of this sounding like a marketing ploy.. I have no affiliation with Digital Amp Co., I will just say that no other piece of audio gear has made such a profound difference in my system. I only left those little amps hooked up for 2 days because I was beginning to try scheming up a way to pay for them. When my friend finally found a buyer and came over to pick them up, I had them hooked up so he could hear them driving my Sierra-2's(now EX's). His jaw hit the floor. He just turned and stared at me slack-jawed. I nodded and told him that was why I had to pull them out after 2 days, otherwise I would've ended up in hhot water with my wife.

I currently run a Van Alstine SET-120 rated at "only" 60w/ch@8ohms, 120w/ch@4ohms. Class A/B biased to class A for the 1st 8-10 watts. It sounds great, but I hope some day I can once again hear those Cherries driving my Sierras.

Well dammit. Now my wallet is freaking open again!

Doesn't seem the Maraschinos are available any more - every other product on their page has an "add to cart" button but not the Cherry Maraschinos...

[Mag_Neato]

Well dammit. Now my wallet is freaking open again!

Doesn't seem the Maraschinos are available any more - every other product on their page has an "add to cart" button but not the Cherry Maraschinos...

Give Tommy a call. He usually has lots of specials that are not advertised. I had the little inline mono amps running my Sierras with the 60V power supplies and extra capacitance, but he has less expensive models. I just could not afford to buy them off my friend.

[Jack1949]

I'm a RAAL Sierra Tower and Horizon owner and I use a King 5-CHerry amp from Digital Amplifier. IMO it's a great combination. I agree with Mag_Neato, give Tommy O'Brien a call or email him (support@digitalamp.com). I had lots of questions before I purchased and he was very helpful.

Also, I'm on the Digital Amplifier email list and received an email 2 days ago. Here's a snippet that I think might be of interest to you...


We have hardware! We are finally receiving many long lead time materials, and we're building new MEGAschino, x-CHerry, and Maraschino amplifiers.

We have some amazing specials lined up, including deals on demos and new equipment until November 15th.

By the way, we've never raised our list prices, and plan to keep it that way.

This weekend only! Take an extra $100 off any purchase over $400 if you mention this email. To get our updated specials list, please email us HERE (Support@DigitalAmp.com).

Our current specials include:


Cherry Classic Stereo amp with 1500W transformer upgrade
MEGAschino MK2 Stereo Amplifier DEMO with double rail caps and black faceplate
Stereo Maraschino MK3 (advance order)
KING 4-CHerry (we have two!)

[bkdc]

I believe the gold standard in class D is Purifi Audio.. Bruno Putzey's latest endeavour. The Purifi 1ET400a modules appear to measure better than Hypex Ncore but well implemented amplifiers using either Purifi or Ncore modules will have class A/B or A rivaling sound. I also believe that no implementation of the Purifi 1ET400a module has measured superior to Bruno's Eval1 set, and any fiddling and switching of op amps and buffers results in worse results (although some may prefer the slight distortion). I now own two amps using Purifi boards and switch mode power supplies. There is absolutely no going back to heavy amps hauling around massive toroidal transformers and heat sinks. I'm even opposed to class D amplifiers mated to large toroidal transformers. Yes you save electricity but please save my back!

The only amplifier that measures better is Benchmark AHB2 which is in a league of its own.

I am 100% converted to class D, and I will never go back to A or A/B given what is now technically available in class D.

At a budget of 2K, the NAD C298 is a strong stereo amplifier contender using the newest technology Purifi 1ET400a modules.