Just how fragile are the Raals?

[Qman]

I had previous speakers with Raven ribbons. They were very fragile. I blew several ribbons just by applying too much music power. Another couple I fried simply by inadvertently turning a fan towards them and the moving air stretched the ribbon to a useless state. Another one ripped for no apparent reason.

I'm on the fence about the EX purchase, but my past experiences with the Raven has me leaning towards the domes.

Thanks for any help.
Qman

[Pogre]

I had previous speakers with Raven ribbons. They were very fragile. I blew several ribbons just by applying too much music power. Another couple I fried simply by inadvertently turning a fan towards them and the moving air stretched the ribbon to a useless state. Another one ripped for no apparent reason.

I'm on the fence about the EX purchase, but my past experiences with the Raven has me leaning towards the domes.

Thanks for any help.
Qman

I'd say volume levels are going to be the factor here. The Sierra EX is a fantastic speaker but it's not a SPL monster. If you sit close and don't listen at insane levels I'd say you're fine. If you like it loud and/or sit far from your speakers. then the RAAL 70/20 xram in the Sierra towers can handle more power and SPL.

[Qman]

Thanks, listening distance is about 10 ft. I definitely will not be putting in a full 150 WPC continuous as the speaker is rated.

[Pogre]

Thanks, listening distance is about 10 ft. I definitely will not be putting in a full 150 WPC continuous as the speaker is rated.

I sit 15' from my front stage and I'm able to get my Sierra 2s to play pretty loud without distorting, but reference levels at that distance is pushing it given their sensitivity. I was debating on the EX kit myself and ended up going with the towers after talking with Dave.

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?7088-Stumbled-Across-an-Awesome-Deal!&p=62908#post62908

[Qman]

I sit 15' from my front stage and I'm able to get my Sierra 2s to play pretty loud without distorting, but reference levels at that distance is pushing it given their sensitivity. I was debating on the EX kit myself and ended up going with the towers after talking with Dave.

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?7088-Stumbled-Across-an-Awesome-Deal!&p=62908#post62908

Thanks Pogre. But I am retiring my older towers because we are remodeling the HT room and the wife says NO!. Need something smaller (But dammit, I'm keeping my giant sub! I had to put my foot down at some point!)

[mikesiskav]

The Raals in the tower are definitely very durable and can handle higher volumes. The S2 EX Raal is not the same model but Dave modified the crossover in comparison to the regular S2 which gives the EX more dynamic capability.

[Pogre]

The Raals in the tower are definitely very durable and can handle higher volumes. The S2 EX Raal is not the same model but Dave modified the crossover in comparison to the regular S2 which gives the EX more dynamic capability.

That I didn't know. Do you think the EX would be able to handle reference levels as a center channel at my distance? Dave seemed to think it wasn't a good idea and nudged me toward the towers instead of upgrading my S2s. I've been using one of my S2s as my center since I got the towers but haven't pushed it too hard yet. I don't listen regularly at high spl, but when I do its almost always 2 channel music.

[mikesiskav]

That I didn't know. Do you think the EX would be able to handle reference levels as a center channel at my distance? Dave seemed to think it wasn't a good idea and nudged me toward the towers instead of upgrading my S2s. I've been using one of my S2s as my center since I got the towers but haven't pushed it too hard yet. I don't listen regularly at high spl, but when I do its almost always 2 channel music.

Not sure if my post was totally clear. What I meant was the Tower Raal and the S2 EX Raal are different models. But the S2 and S2 EX Raal are the same model but with different crossover config. I believe Dave said the S2 EX had a steeper slope on the crossover which helps protect the tweeter at higher volumes.

I did some compression testing on my S2 and was able to hit 95 dB from 9 ft away no problem. This was with an 80hz crossover to my sub. At 100 dB the S2 woofer made a weird sound. Not sure if it bottomed out but there wasn't any damage. So I don't think reference level is a good idea with the S2. And I don't recommend doing what I did. It could damage the speaker.

[davef]

I had previous speakers with Raven ribbons. They were very fragile. I blew several ribbons just by applying too much music power. Another couple I fried simply by inadvertently turning a fan towards them and the moving air stretched the ribbon to a useless state. Another one ripped for no apparent reason.

I'm on the fence about the EX purchase, but my past experiences with the Raven has me leaning towards the domes.

Thanks for any help.
Qman

Not fragile at all actually. What takes out RAAL ribbons (or really any ribbon or dome) is amplifier clipping, which creates distortion that causes transverse waves. These waveforms work against the original waveform and cause the ribbon diaphragm to resonate in a way that it is not designed to.

The RAAL 70-20xram (what we use in the tower) has a specialized damping system in its design which prevents this type of distortion from causing damage. This is literally the most durable tweeter I have ever worked with, aside from tweeters designed for the pro industry. In many thousands sold, we have only had one customer cause this ribbon to tear. He decided to use a 1000+ watt amplifier into the towers, using them outside for a party - and he literally burned every component in the speaker, including the inductors and resistors.

The RAAL ribbons on the S2 and S2EX are the same, but quite a bit different than the 70-20xram. We have had customers damage the ribbons in the S2's when over driving their receivers. It is extremely rare if using a high quality amplifier, but receivers typically have mediocre quality amp sections and power supply, thus they typically will clip easily.

With the S2EX, and the improved high frequency response and dispersion of the EX woofer, we were able to use a much steeper slow on the ribbon tweeter, which dramatically increases the durability of the ribbon. S2-EX is is our fastest selling speaker ever, and we have yet to have even one reported damaged tweeter.

What amp or receiver will you be using and will you be using the speakers full range?

[Qman]

Thanks Dave.
I will be using either a Pioneer receiver, (VSX 712, severely overdue to be upgraded), rated at 100 WPC, or I can use the pre-outs to use the amp of my Bryston B60 (60WPC rated, but sounds great), or a Cinepro 600X2SE amp (200WPC rated). But I will normally not be driving these to anywhere near reference levels.

Also, can you tell us if the Duo is crossed-over similarly, and can handle similar power to the EX?