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davef
07-23-2019, 03:58 AM
Sierra-2EX !!!

A little over 3-years ago on his annual visit with us, Claus Futtrup (CTO at SEAS Norway) introduced us to a new super high end diamond tweeter, called the White Diamond. I was extremely impressed with this tweeter and requested that SEAS build us up a matching cost-no-object woofer based on specific parameters to meet our performance goals.

About a year later after many samples, we had our new woofer and we started building and selling custom Sierra Diamond speakers. This is all detailed on our forum in this thread: http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?6237-Diamond-Tweeter


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The performance of this speaker was astonishing, but customers as well as those who auditioned our Sierra Diamond noted that as impressed as they were with the diamond tweeter, the woofer was equally impressive. I fully agreed. The midbass punch, bass extension, midrange detail, frequency response linearity, and overall dynamics was the best I had ever come across in a woofer this size, and even compared to many larger woofers.

Our own customers started to inquire about using this woofer in many of our designs, including our most successful speaker to date, our award winning Sierra-2. Problem was, being a true custom build - each of these woofers was being hand made for us by SEAS’s engineering team. These had never been mass produced and then there was the issue of cost. Our EX woofer is part of SEAS’s Excel line, using an optimized version of the venerable W16 motor system – customized to best match a new specially treated Curv woofer cone. Retail pricing on W16 woofers is typically in the range of $280 and up. While we pay less than that for volume purchases, our EX woofer is a purely custom build compared to the stock W16, thus retail pricing is even higher.

We were left with some daunting challenges. Will SEAS be able to reliably mass manufacture these woofers (they were not sure) and how would we be able to use this woofer in our Sierra-2 without a rather dramatic price increase?

As a company, we have always tried to give our customers and fans what they ask for – this is a major advantage of selling direct – we get to communicate directly with all of our customers. Upon witnessing the massive amount of interest in a Sierra-2 with this woofer, I became fully committed to make it happen. SEAS went to work on optimizing manufacturing processes and parts procurement – while we committed to purchasing a large enough supply to make it beneficial for both SEAS and Ascend, and get the per unit pricing down to as low as possible, a true win-win.

As we now enter our 20th year of business and in celebration of this milestone –


We introduce the new Sierra-2 EX!
(http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM2EX/srm2ex.html)

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This woofer brings a few things to the table...

The Excel motor systems are known for having extremely low inductance; this woofer has less than half the inductance of the standard S2 woofer, which is already low. This combined with a significant reduction in moving mass, 22% lower to be exact, and a more powerful magnet system provides exceptionally deep bass and much improved transients and dynamics.

This woofer hits hard - there is more punch and bass extends lower than much larger woofers. Even with an 80Hz crossover, listeners will sense the greater impact due to the enhanced midbass.

The extremely low inductance combined with a new damping treatment being used on the Curv cone provides improved self-damping (which is already superb with the S2 woofer and why we chose the Curv cone in the first place) and greater high frequency extension and detail.

The huge copper phase plug improves off-axis dispersion, greatly reduces any beaming, works in conjunction with the pure copper upper and lower Faraday rings to reduce distortion, linearize magnetic flux and improve power handling and thermal compression by acting as a massive heat sink...

In simpler terms, mids are cleaner - smoother sounding with more weight to them (they sound warmer, fuller with more detail). Because of the upper end improvements, we can use a steeper high pass filter slope on the tweeter, easing the workload on the ribbon tweeter which in turn increases power handling, lowers distortion and provides for an even better overall blend between the woofer and tweeter.

The Sierra-2EX sounds like our Sierra-2, but is warmer/fuller, cleaner (especially at louder volume levels), more musical and with rather shocking dynamics. And, if run full range - the bass response seems to defy the laws of physics -- it is tower-like. In direct A/B comparisons with speakers using very high quality larger woofers, the EX woofer hit harder and deeper. I have never actually heard a bookshelf speaker with this kind of bass response before...

The Sierra-2EX improves upon every performance aspect of the Sierra-2 and the measurements are outstanding!

We are excited to release the Sierra-2EX, and in celebration of our 20th Anniversary – we are introducing the speaker at an incredible price.

For Sierra-2 owners who wish to upgrade, we also have an upgrade “kit” available.

And for more good news, Sierra-2EX is already in production and shipping!

The Sierra-2EX is a benchmark product and thanks to the feedback and inquiries from all of you – we fully committed ourselves to making it happen and we could not be any more pleased with the results.

Enjoy!

diesel79
07-25-2019, 06:34 AM
Looks awesome.

Just sent email with questions. :)

Mag_Neato
07-25-2019, 07:06 AM
Awesome news! Is there kit pricing listed somewhere?

hornfan785
07-25-2019, 08:20 AM
Also curious about the upgrade kit pricing. Then I'll have to decide whether I should get the upgrade kit or the upcoming Luna Duo first....

SunByrne
07-25-2019, 10:03 AM
Super cool. Bet these are monsters.

However, now I wish I had waited to upgrade my S1 NrTs to S2s, since I just did that like two months ago. I kinda thought the timeline on this would be a little longer. OTOH, since I don't know what this little beastie costs relative to the regular S1->S2 upgrade, I don't know if I would have done it. Definitely will be interested in seeing the price.

Dave, I'm still planning on visiting Ascend mid-August. I'll be able to listen to one of these, yes?

cgramer
07-25-2019, 12:26 PM
Amazing news, Dave! Quick question, though: Does the slight difference in the size/location of the rear port on the standard vs. domestic cabinets make any audible difference to how these sound? Is there any sonic advantage to going with the slightly more expensive domestic cabinets, or is it more an aesthetic (and patriotic) upgrade? :)

Thanks!

Mag_Neato
07-25-2019, 12:34 PM
Amazing news, Dave! Quick question, though: Does the slight difference in the size/location of the rear port on the standard vs. domestic cabinets make any audible difference to how these sound? Is there any sonic advantage to going with the slightly more expensive domestic cabinets, or is it more an aesthetic (and patriotic) upgrade? :)

Thanks!

My understanding is that the ports are the same diameter, but the domestic version has a larger flare in the opening and larger mounting flange. Not sure you'd hear any difference?

curtis
07-25-2019, 12:41 PM
My understanding is that the ports are the same diameter, but the domestic version has a larger flare in the opening and larger mounting flange. Not sure you'd hear any difference?
This is correct.

I’m not even sure the flare is larger or if port tube just has a bigger flange.

racrawford65
07-25-2019, 03:23 PM
Sweet!

I'm curious about the upgrade kit pricing, as well.

Dave, how is it as a center versus the upcoming Luna Duo?

davef
07-25-2019, 04:17 PM
Amazing news, Dave! Quick question, though: Does the slight difference in the size/location of the rear port on the standard vs. domestic cabinets make any audible difference to how these sound? Is there any sonic advantage to going with the slightly more expensive domestic cabinets, or is it more an aesthetic (and patriotic) upgrade? :)

Thanks!

Good question. Port tuning is the same between standard and domestic cabinets and there is no detectable differences in performance. The flare is larger on the domestic cabinet port tube, but ID is exactly the same. I have never been able to hear any differences and measurements confirm this.

davef
07-25-2019, 04:24 PM
Super Dave, I'm still planning on visiting Ascend mid-August. I'll be able to listen to one of these, yes?

Absolutely - S2EX are in our demo room.

davef
07-25-2019, 04:26 PM
Ill get upgrade kit pricing posted later this evening...

curtis
07-25-2019, 09:51 PM
Ill get upgrade kit pricing posted later this evening...
I bet some are going to stay up late, or get up early!

Sam1000
07-25-2019, 11:42 PM
This is a nice woofer. very good chest thumping mid bass. Nice transients. I have tried it with couple of class D integrated amps(Devialet and Aavik) and it rocks. Highly recommended. I think this would mate really well with couple of rythmik F8s for a small form factor.

RicardoJoa
07-26-2019, 03:22 AM
Do these still image crazy like the sierra2?
I really enjoy the imaging and separation of instruments of the sierra2 throws out.

astr0b0y
07-26-2019, 04:04 AM
Finally, an upgrade path for S2’s! Someone please come up with a DIY cabinet so we can make use of the old woofers as a small sub enclosure.

Mag_Neato
07-26-2019, 06:46 AM
Dave,
Thanks for posting the kit info on the EX product page!

Fantom
07-26-2019, 07:59 AM
I've been following the diamond thread in anticipation! This came together quicker than expected. Great work Dave!!

Some questions:
What tools/skills are required to perform the upgrade from S2 to S2EX? Similar to the S1->S2 upgrade kit? Will there be an option to ship our S2 to Ascend to have you do the upgrade? And if so, how will self-upgrade vs factory upgrade affect warranty?

Mag_Neato
07-26-2019, 08:09 AM
I've been following the diamond thread in anticipation! This came together quicker than expected. Great work Dave!!

Some questions:
What tools/skills are required to perform the upgrade from S2 to S2EX? Similar to the S1->S2 upgrade kit? Will there be an option to ship our S2 to Ascend to have you do the upgrade? And if so, how will self-upgrade vs factory upgrade affect warranty?

Should be the same as doing the S1 to Nrt upgrade, only you are swapping woofers vs tweeters as well as crossovers. You should have a regular Phillips (+) head screwdriver and correctly sized hex socket/open end wrench for the speaker terminal connections.

See here: http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?4526-NrT-Upgrade-instructions-with-video!

Just don't remove the tweeter, only the woofer!

curtis
07-26-2019, 09:59 AM
Do these still image crazy like the sierra2?
I really enjoy the imaging and separation of instruments of the sierra2 throws out.
Yes!

rsmt2000
07-26-2019, 10:03 AM
Dave,

How does the Sierra-2EX center compare to the upcoming LUNA Duo?

trollbearpig_what
07-26-2019, 03:06 PM
Congrats on the go-live day for the new speakers Dave!! Price seems very reasonable to me so I just impulse bought the hell out of these...been watching the diamond thread for awhile. They'll be my first set of speakers and I'll be pairing with a refurbed NAD C 368 I ALSO just impulse bought ='D.

EXCITED!!

davef
07-26-2019, 05:25 PM
Dave,

How does the Sierra-2EX center compare to the upcoming LUNA Duo?

I think it depends -- if someone is using Sierra-2EX as left/right and can fit the Sierra-2EX center (either vertically or horizontally) - I would then recommend the S2EX center. For nearly every other setup, I would still go with the forthcoming Duo.

davef
07-26-2019, 05:32 PM
Do these still image crazy like the sierra2?
I really enjoy the imaging and separation of instruments of the sierra2 throws out.

I feel the S2 EX do a better job with instrument separation compared to Sierra-2 (thanks to the new woofer and crossover which eases the work load on the ribbon). I honestly haven't noticed any differences in imaging between the 2 speakers. Technically - the S2-EX should image better as the off-axis response is a bit more linear, but I couldn't audibly detect this. However, that is not to say that you won't hear the imaging improvements with the S2EX.

davef
07-26-2019, 06:33 PM
Congrats on the go-live day for the new speakers Dave!! Price seems very reasonable to me so I just impulse bought the hell out of these...been watching the diamond thread for awhile. They'll be my first set of speakers and I'll be pairing with a refurbed NAD C 368 I ALSO just impulse bought ='D.

EXCITED!!

Thank you, and thanks so much for placing the order. For your first set of speakers, wow - you are jumping right into true high end audio - no better way to start this wonderful lifelong hobby and passion. I hope you absolutely love the speakers!

davef
07-26-2019, 06:41 PM
This is a nice woofer. very good chest thumping mid bass. Nice transients. I have tried it with couple of class D integrated amps(Devialet and Aavik) and it rocks. Highly recommended. I think this would mate really well with couple of rythmik F8s for a small form factor.

Are you saying you have used the SEAS W16? If yes, I completely agree - the W16 is really special but keep in mind that while our EX woofer is based on the motor system of the W16, the cone, voice coil and former are very different, with overall considerably lower moving mass.

davef
07-26-2019, 06:45 PM
I've been following the diamond thread in anticipation! This came together quicker than expected. Great work Dave!!

Some questions:
What tools/skills are required to perform the upgrade from S2 to S2EX? Similar to the S1->S2 upgrade kit? Will there be an option to ship our S2 to Ascend to have you do the upgrade? And if so, how will self-upgrade vs factory upgrade affect warranty?

S2 to S2EX is rather simple, I would say only skills required are some patience, somewhat dexterous hands, and experience with a screwdriver. Basically, you will need to first remove the woofer, then the tweeter, and then the crossover. Then install the new crossover, reinstall the tweeter - and then install the new woofer. No soldering would be required. It is very similar to this:

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?5545-Sierra-2-Upgrade-instructions-with-video!

davef
07-26-2019, 07:06 PM
Should be the same as doing the S1 to Nrt upgrade, only you are swapping woofers vs tweeters as well as crossovers. You should have a regular Phillips (+) head screwdriver and correctly sized hex socket/open end wrench for the speaker terminal connections.

See here: http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?4526-NrT-Upgrade-instructions-with-video!

Just don't remove the tweeter, only the woofer!

Minor correction: Tweeter must be removed in order to remove and install the new crossover.

rifmon
07-27-2019, 03:47 AM
I'm already thoroughly enjoying my new Sierra 2's and the bass has not disappointed me at all in my room. But this upgrade and the benefits it brings are irresistible! Question...Will the upgrade effect the speaker's sensitivity?

Just found the product page with specs. By one dB

goldark
07-27-2019, 07:04 AM
Are there any plans to use the EX woofer in a new version of the tower?

Chucka
07-27-2019, 04:41 PM
Does the Sierra-2EX have much of an advantage over the Sierra-Luna Speaker when operating with a pair of subwoofers and a 80Hz crossover point?

SunByrne
07-27-2019, 08:31 PM
Ugh, crushed by timing. I thought it would take Dave much longer to get everything worked out with SEAS, and a little less than two months ago spent $816 to upgrade my S1 NrTs to S2s. Waited like six years from the release of the S2s to do that.

If I had just waited those two short months, for a mere $162 more I could have gone to S2-EXs, which I totally would have done. Now it's going to cost me $656 to get to EXs, and that's just too rich.

Moral of the story: postpone purchases! :(

Someone with S2s please do the upgrade and tell me it's not a big deal.

Bruce Watson
07-28-2019, 07:13 AM
Moral of the story: postpone purchases!

You can certainly do that.

My take is somewhat different: Buy the biggest bang for the buck you can find, only *when you need it*, and don't look back.

Second guessing after the fact is a waste of time at best, and corrosive at worst. Buy what you need, then move on. This is the only method I've found that actually works against GAS. Of course YMMV as everyone works differently.

curtis
07-28-2019, 08:34 AM
You can certainly do that.

My take is somewhat different: Buy the biggest bang for the buck you can find, only *when you need it*, and don't look back.

Second guessing after the fact is a waste of time at best, and corrosive at worst. Buy what you need, then move on. This is the only method I've found that actually works against GAS. Of course YMMV as everyone works differently.
Agreed. There is always something better around the corner...Dave is always looking to improve and offer more "bang for the buck".

I have heard the new 2EX, and it sounds great. I have not directly compared to the standard Sierra-2, so ignorance is bliss.

It is on my list to compare/upgrade, but I have other priorities for my system, which also are in line with other priorities for my play money. I just bought a new pre/pro, and the hardware to put together a Roon ROCK(doing that today). Next up is an e-bike, then Atmos(which will require more/new amplification) and a new BBQ. Atmos and the BBQ are fighting for priority. :)

mikesiskav
07-28-2019, 10:49 AM
Congrats Dave on the new product release! I think this is going to be a big hit. I wish I could upgrade now, but my budget just doesn't have to room for it right now. But one day it will happen!

tkrae11
07-28-2019, 03:18 PM
I'm really excited about the Sierra-2EX as I was already saving up for S2s.

I'm interested to know more about the differences between domestic cabinets vs. standard cabinets. Specifically, I'm looking at the natural finish.

BTW, I recently got a pair of cbm-170 SEs and I'm very happy with them and will use them as surrounds later.

Thanks! -Tom K

trollbearpig_what
07-28-2019, 05:48 PM
I'm going to be throwing the sierra -2ex's on a pair of Monolith by Monoprice stands. I was wondering how best to secure the speakers to the stands? I've heard blu tak frequently mentioned as being good, but am worried about them damaging the speakers if I ever have to remove the tak similar to this instance:

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649395136-kef-ls50-black-speakers-original-packaging/

Does anyone know if blu tak could damage these speakers or have any other recommendations on how to secure them?

davef
07-28-2019, 07:21 PM
Does the Sierra-2EX have much of an advantage over the Sierra-Luna Speaker when operating with a pair of subwoofers and a 80Hz crossover point?

Quite a bit more midbass punch with the Sierra-2EX, combined with a bit higher efficiency and overall better dynamics. Sierra-2EX also sound a bit warmer overall compared to the Luna.

Telemars
07-28-2019, 08:39 PM
I'm going to be throwing the sierra -2ex's on a pair of Monolith by Monoprice stands. I was wondering how best to secure the speakers to the stands? I've heard blu tak frequently mentioned as being good, but am worried about them damaging the speakers if I ever have to remove the tak similar to this instance:

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649395136-kef-ls50-black-speakers-original-packaging/

Does anyone know if blu tak could damage these speakers or have any other recommendations on how to secure them?

I’ve been using Blu-Tack for a couple years with my Sierra Luna’s with no issues at all (domestic cabinets, satin cherry finish). That includes the first time that I had used Blu-Tack and thought I needed an entire package for 2 speakers, needless to say it was very hard to get them off the stands again but the finish was completely undamaged.

A small square on each corner provides enough holding force to lift up the Sanus NF series stands I’ve been using with the speaker while not being too hard to remove or reposition. Not sure if it matters but I’ve always used the name brand.

trollbearpig_what
07-29-2019, 09:17 AM
I’ve been using Blu-Tack for a couple years with my Sierra Luna’s with no issues at all (domestic cabinets, satin cherry finish). That includes the first time that I had used Blu-Tack and thought I needed an entire package for 2 speakers, needless to say it was very hard to get them off the stands again but the finish was completely undamaged.

A small square on each corner provides enough holding force to lift up the Sanus NF series stands I’ve been using with the speaker while not being too hard to remove or reposition. Not sure if it matters but I’ve always used the name brand.

Wow the whole package?! Ha that's insane..glad to hear it didn't damage your finish! I already purchased this one which seems similar to Blu Tak but claims to be more safe to remove for wood. I'm assuming the hold isn't as strong as Blu Tak but I'll give this one a try and see how it holds. If it's garbage I'm falling back on the Blu Tak. Thanks!

Quakehold! 88111 Museum Putty Neutral https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002VA9NA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_NTXpDbKQQ5HP1

davef
07-29-2019, 10:11 PM
Wow the whole package?! Ha that's insane..glad to hear it didn't damage your finish! I already purchased this one which seems similar to Blu Tak but claims to be more safe to remove for wood. I'm assuming the hold isn't as strong as Blu Tak but I'll give this one a try and see how it holds. If it's garbage I'm falling back on the Blu Tak. Thanks!

Quakehold! 88111 Museum Putty Neutral https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002VA9NA/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_NTXpDbKQQ5HP1

I have used this exact same stuff -- Quakehold. Works great.

davef
07-29-2019, 10:14 PM
I'm really excited about the Sierra-2EX as I was already saving up for S2s.

I'm interested to know more about the differences between domestic cabinets vs. standard cabinets. Specifically, I'm looking at the natural finish.

BTW, I recently got a pair of cbm-170 SEs and I'm very happy with them and will use them as surrounds later.

Thanks! -Tom K


Hi Tom,

Differences are purely cosmetic and you can see the differences on the photo gallery page (http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM2EX/srm2exgal.html). The domestic made cabinets do use a port tube with a larger flare, but I haven't found that it offers any benefit

davef
07-29-2019, 10:19 PM
Congrats Dave on the new product release! I think this is going to be a big hit. I wish I could upgrade now, but my budget just doesn't have to room for it right now. But one day it will happen!

Thanks Mike!!

davef
07-29-2019, 10:26 PM
Ugh, crushed by timing. I thought it would take Dave much longer to get everything worked out with SEAS, and a little less than two months ago spent $816 to upgrade my S1 NrTs to S2s. Waited like six years from the release of the S2s to do that.

If I had just waited those two short months, for a mere $162 more I could have gone to S2-EXs, which I totally would have done. Now it's going to cost me $656 to get to EXs, and that's just too rich.

Moral of the story: postpone purchases! :(

Someone with S2s please do the upgrade and tell me it's not a big deal.

Send me an email when you get a chance....

DavidJW02
07-30-2019, 10:03 AM
Dave, how does the Sierra 2 EX compare to the Horizon? I know the Horizon has higher sensitivity and you had stated in a previous thread that the Horizon was more dynamic than the Sierra 2. However, the new Sierra 2 EX model is said to have better dynamics and an improved midrange, which are two areas that other listeners of the Horizon said were better than the original Sierra 2. How close does the EX come to the Horizon’s performance?

Thanks for working with SEAS to make the EX upgrade an option for existing Sierra owners.

davef
08-06-2019, 07:23 PM
Dave, how does the Sierra 2 EX compare to the Horizon? I know the Horizon has higher sensitivity and you had stated in a previous thread that the Horizon was more dynamic than the Sierra 2. However, the new Sierra 2 EX model is said to have better dynamics and an improved midrange, which are two areas that other listeners of the Horizon said were better than the original Sierra 2. How close does the EX come to the Horizon’s performance?

Thanks for working with SEAS to make the EX upgrade an option for existing Sierra owners.

I would say the Sierra-2EX is about 50% closer to the performance of the Horizon with regards to dynamics. The Horizon still has an advantage with regard to dispersion, midrange clarity / detail and output capabilities.

justthinking
08-07-2019, 05:13 PM
I will be ordering a pair of the upgrade kit soon, but what should we do with the old cross over and woofer from s2? Any suggestions?

pj-
08-08-2019, 07:30 AM
After doing the Sierra 1 -> Sierra 1 SE upgrade and then the Sierra 1 SE -> Sierra 2 upgrade, I think this time I might just sell my Sierra 2's and buy new 2EX's. Crazy to think I originally bought them over 10 years ago.

The used market for S2's is pretty good so it would end up costing about the same as upgrading, plus, the S2 woofers were a tight fit and I'm not sure how easily I'd be able to pull them out.

Fantom
08-08-2019, 12:35 PM
I thought about doing the same thing, especially with the intro pricing on the 2EX. But I figured it could be a fun project and a way to learn, since I had never done an upgrade before.

I bought the S1 12 years ago now (they had just launched). I skipped the NRT upgrade and heard that early cabinets didn't do well with the S2 upgrade. So I sent my S1 into Ascend... and they were unable to upgrade the cabinets. So I'm glad I didn't try myself! Ascend sold me new cabinets at cost and I got brand new S2 speakers with a fresh warranty about 4 years ago.

So I debated it too and honestly it would cost you roughly the same and as a bonus someone else gets a set of amazing speakers! I didn't get any takers from friends for the S2 so I went ahead and ordered the upgrade kits. I just completed my S2 -> S2EX upgrade for 3 speakers (LCR). Not sure yet what to do with my spare parts.

They're breaking in and then I'll need to redo calibration, but I'm already loving the additional clarity and punch/dynamics!

davef
08-09-2019, 07:00 PM
I will be ordering a pair of the upgrade kit soon, but what should we do with the old cross over and woofer from s2? Any suggestions?

We would be happy to take them back and pay for the return shipping on them, but we are not offering any credit for the old parts.

Mag_Neato
08-09-2019, 10:39 PM
I thought about doing the same thing, especially with the intro pricing on the 2EX. But I figured it could be a fun project and a way to learn, since I had never done an upgrade before.

I bought the S1 12 years ago now (they had just launched). I skipped the NRT upgrade and heard that early cabinets didn't do well with the S2 upgrade. So I sent my S1 into Ascend... and they were unable to upgrade the cabinets. So I'm glad I didn't try myself! Ascend sold me new cabinets at cost and I got brand new S2 speakers with a fresh warranty about 4 years ago.

So I debated it too and honestly it would cost you roughly the same and as a bonus someone else gets a set of amazing speakers! I didn't get any takers from friends for the S2 so I went ahead and ordered the upgrade kits. I just completed my S2 -> S2EX upgrade for 3 speakers (LCR). Not sure yet what to do with my spare parts.

They're breaking in and then I'll need to redo calibration, but I'm already loving the additional clarity and punch/dynamics!

I have an original pair of cabinets from the first Sierra-1’s as well, but I have been able to do both the NrT and Sierra-2 upgrades myself. The Sierra-2 woofer did give me a difficult time as it had a larger outer diameter and would not fit without enlarging the opening. The original cabinets also had different spacing for the threaded inserts that the crossover board mounts to so I had to use self tapping wood screws to mount the new boards.

I will do the EX kits at some point as well.

Crk140
08-13-2019, 04:06 PM
I just upgraded/down graded from the s2 to a custom pair of nrt with ex woofers. The ribbons were too tame for my taste and personally preferred the nrt dome for rock. I personally can't imagine a woofer sounding any better. Special thanks to Dave for working with me and making my speakers custom. American made cabinets look great for any one considering and imo the ex woofer is well worth the additional cost. Thanks Dave and Dina. You guys are the best!!!!!

Mag_Neato
08-14-2019, 04:53 AM
I just upgraded/down graded from the s2 to a custom pair of nrt with ex woofers. The ribbons were too tame for my taste and personally preferred the nrt dome for rock. I personally can't imagine a woofer sounding any better. Special thanks to Dave for working with me and making my speakers custom. American made cabinets look great for any one considering and imo the ex woofer is well worth the additional cost. Thanks Dave and Dina. You guys are the best!!!!!

That sounds awesome! With all the attention the RAAL tweeters get it's easy to forget how good those NrT tweeters are. I had them prior to converting them to Sierra-2's. They definitely do rock.

The main thing I got from going to the RAALs was how more "Real" things sounded. The NrT has huge energy as frequency rises rather than rolling off, so it could get a bit "Bitey" at times, really good for certain genres of music like rock, metal, etc. On the downside to that it could over emphasize sibilance......to me. The RAAL gave me all the detail without all that "SSSSSSSSSSibilance", presenting a natural sounding presentation.

I wouldn't mind having a 2nd set of Sierra's w/NrT's to listen to on occasion.

racrawford65
08-14-2019, 08:12 AM
I wouldn't mind having a 2nd set of Sierra's w/NrT's to listen to on occasion.

I'm sure Dave & Dina would sell you a pair. JK ... :D

Mag_Neato
08-14-2019, 09:34 AM
I'm sure Dave & Dina would sell you a pair. JK ... :D

That is a steep moss covered slope my friend.........

racrawford65
08-14-2019, 02:42 PM
That is a steep moss covered slope my friend.........

Ed,
apologies if you were offended. none was meant.
Robert

davef
08-14-2019, 03:02 PM
I just upgraded/down graded from the s2 to a custom pair of nrt with ex woofers. The ribbons were too tame for my taste and personally preferred the nrt dome for rock. I personally can't imagine a woofer sounding any better. Special thanks to Dave for working with me and making my speakers custom. American made cabinets look great for any one considering and imo the ex woofer is well worth the additional cost. Thanks Dave and Dina. You guys are the best!!!!!

You are very welcome and thanks for putting your confidence in us. We are thrilled you are enjoying them -- the EX woofer is really something special.

Mag_Neato
08-14-2019, 03:30 PM
Ed,
apologies if you were offended. none was meant.
Robert

Robert, it’s all good, no worries! None taken.

Agd
08-14-2019, 04:23 PM
Omg I haven't been following the forums and this news drops?? Big congrats to the entire ascend team! Really believe this is the greatest value in HiFi. I'm literally dying that I missed out by two months, I just bought Sierra 2s and could have gotten the EX for $50 more... People need to be jumping on this, that's a crazy deal. Wish I was a little more patient!

Agd
08-16-2019, 05:09 PM
One thing I would love to hear is if the new woofers add weight to some of the transition frequencies that I think are limitations of the bookshelf comapared to tower.

One of my benchmark songs is Hotel California, and the vocal track being over weighted by the treble hihat and guitar work (which are compelling in their own right). Or the low-mid bass weight of sound of silence by disturbed. It's one of those songs that a good tower can add presence to that some bookshelves can struggle to fill. Would love to hear those that have made the upgrade report how these challenging bands have changed

davef
08-19-2019, 05:56 PM
One thing I would love to hear is if the new woofers add weight to some of the transition frequencies that I think are limitations of the bookshelf comapared to tower.

Sierra-2EX (or any speaker for that matter) doesn't "add" weight to specific frequencies. This speaker is designed to reproduce frequencies as recorded. However, because the S2-EX has greater bass extension combined with a shallower bass roll off, there is more bass and mid-bass -- which adds "weight" to all frequencies.

esnewtunemakers
08-25-2019, 05:55 PM
Just catching up on the EX's, wow! I consider myself a "junior audiophile", with little exposure to most of the industry, but since a kid, always trying to maximize sound quality (so happy when I bought a demo-model stereo VHS/TV tuner to connect to my used Luxman integrated amp!).

Just have to say, with all of the upgrades I have done in the last couple years, the Sierra-2 w/RAAL as my main L/R has been fantastic. I am seriously considering the upgrade to EX, while at the same time considering "relegating" the Sierra-2's to L/R surround duty and getting towers for main L/R...decisions, decisions...

But, thanks Dave and the Ascend team for the great products!

davef
08-27-2019, 11:30 PM
Just catching up on the EX's, wow! I consider myself a "junior audiophile", with little exposure to most of the industry, but since a kid, always trying to maximize sound quality (so happy when I bought a demo-model stereo VHS/TV tuner to connect to my used Luxman integrated amp!).

Just have to say, with all of the upgrades I have done in the last couple years, the Sierra-2 w/RAAL as my main L/R has been fantastic. I am seriously considering the upgrade to EX, while at the same time considering "relegating" the Sierra-2's to L/R surround duty and getting towers for main L/R...decisions, decisions...

But, thanks Dave and the Ascend team for the great products!

Thank you! Very happy to hear that you continue to enjoy your Sierra-2's!! Send us an email or give us a call if you would like our recommendations.

vicky
09-11-2019, 08:55 AM
very excited to learn if tower upgrade will also be coming in future 😀

SONDEK
09-11-2019, 05:12 PM
Watching this thread with great interest!
I'm really hoping those members who have bought the SIERRA-2EX will post their listening impressions - including which speaker they have moved-up from and which amp they are using.
Appreciated.
:D :D :D

RRT-NPS
10-04-2019, 08:25 AM
I used to be a Sierra Tower w/ RAAL owner, then got on the Salk bandwagon, mostly due to custom finishes not about sound quality because I was really pleased with the sound of the Towers. Now that I am in a smaller place, I am considering going back to Bookshelfs with BIG bass. Was considering the Salk Silk but now thinking about the Sierra 2EX. Dave, I would be curious to hear your opinions if you have compared the two and also as to why you, didn't opt for the 70-20 instead.

Mag_Neato
10-04-2019, 11:06 AM
I used to be a Sierra Tower w/ RAAL owner, then got on the Salk bandwagon, mostly due to custom finishes not about sound quality because I was really pleased with the sound of the Towers. Now that I am in a smaller place, I am considering going back to Bookshelfs with BIG bass. Was considering the Salk Silk but now thinking about the Sierra 2EX. Dave, I would be curious to hear your opinions if you have compared the two and also as to why you, didn't opt for the 70-20 instead.

The 2EX was created as a result of the EX woofer that was developed specifically to complement the SEAS White Diamond tweeter. It got such high praise that Sierra-2 owners overwhelmingly asked Dave to try and make it work with the Sierra-2's RAAL tweeter as another upgrade path.

davef
10-07-2019, 11:38 PM
I used to be a Sierra Tower w/ RAAL owner, then got on the Salk bandwagon, mostly due to custom finishes not about sound quality because I was really pleased with the sound of the Towers. Now that I am in a smaller place, I am considering going back to Bookshelfs with BIG bass. Was considering the Salk Silk but now thinking about the Sierra 2EX. Dave, I would be curious to hear your opinions if you have compared the two and also as to why you, didn't opt for the 70-20 instead.

I am sorry but I have no personal experience with the Salk Silk monitor. That said, no company has sold more 70-20xr ribbons than we have, and other than the designer himself - has more experience with the 70-20 than I do.

There are only 2 advantages of the 70-20 over the Sierra-2 tweeter, one being that it can play louder and the other being that it can be crossed lower. With regard to playing louder - there is no single 5" - 6" woofer that I know of that can be properly mated to the RAAL 70-20 that can match the max output levels of the 70-20. (massive overkill) The fact that it can be crossed lower can definitely be advantageous -- it makes matching it to a woofer easier. In the case of the Sierra-2EX, the EX woofer is incredibly linear up to about 5kHz, it is a terrific match with the Sierra-2 ribbon.

That said, the 70-20xr costs considerably more than the S2 tweeter, thus we would be looking at a very significant price increase to the Sierra-2EX (retail price would be at least $2800/pair). In addition, the S2 ribbon tweeter has wider horizontal and vertical dispersion, which is what you want in a bookshelf sized speaker.

So, given the advantage of a lower crossover point with the 70-20xr combined with significantly higher pricing, vs wider dispersion and a much friendlier price point with the S2 ribbon tweeter - this was one of the easier decisions to make.

jimb
10-09-2019, 02:09 AM
...the 70-20xr costs considerably more than the S2 tweeter, thus we would be looking at a very significant price increase to the Sierra-2EX (retail price would be at least $2800/pair). ...

That's RAAL Tower money!

RRT-NPS
10-09-2019, 04:03 PM
I am sorry but I have no personal experience with the Salk Silk monitor. That said, no company has sold more 70-20xr ribbons than we have, and other than the designer himself - has more experience with the 70-20 than I do.

There are only 2 advantages of the 70-20 over the Sierra-2 tweeter, one being that it can play louder and the other being that it can be crossed lower. With regard to playing louder - there is no single 5" - 6" woofer that I know of that can be properly mated to the RAAL 70-20 that can match the max output levels of the 70-20. (massive overkill) The fact that it can be crossed lower can definitely be advantageous -- it makes matching it to a woofer easier. In the case of the Sierra-2EX, the EX woofer is incredibly linear up to about 5kHz, it is a terrific match with the Sierra-2 ribbon.

That said, the 70-20xr costs considerably more than the S2 tweeter, thus we would be looking at a very significant price increase to the Sierra-2EX (retail price would be at least $2800/pair). In addition, the S2 ribbon tweeter has wider horizontal and vertical dispersion, which is what you want in a bookshelf sized speaker.

So, given the advantage of a lower crossover point with the 70-20xr combined with significantly higher pricing, vs wider dispersion and a much friendlier price point with the S2 ribbon tweeter - this was one of the easier decisions to make.

Thank you for a very detailed and honest answer. It makes perfect sense. If the bass is as big (or bigger) than the Sierra 1, I am sure I will be please. Now to figure out what to do with my Supercharged Songtowers.

jmlight1
10-23-2019, 06:08 AM
Today should be the best hump day in quite a while. My pair of Sierra-2EX Espresso are on the UPS truck out for delivery to me as I type this. They will be replacing a pair of CBM-170SE's I purchased about a year ago that pull music duty in my family room. The 170's punch way above their weight class, and they will be moved downstairs to upgrade the man-cave. My son is in for a treat. I had actually been set on purchasing Sierra-2's last year, but life happened and so the 170's came instead. Perhaps good luck in the end as the 2EX's hold much promise.

The system they will become a part of is tube based with a Manley Labs Stingray II, with a Mag-Lev ML1 TT attached, as well as a Bluesound Node 2i to stream from my NAS and the web. The best of old-school meets digital....

diesel79
10-23-2019, 07:26 AM
Today should be the best hump day in quite a while. My pair of Sierra-2EX Espresso are on the UPS truck out for delivery to me as I type this. They will be replacing a pair of CBM-170SE's I purchased about a year ago that pull music duty in my family room. The 170's punch way above their weight class, and they will be moved downstairs to upgrade the man-cave. My son is in for a treat. I had actually been set on purchasing Sierra-2's last year, but life happened and so the 170's came instead. Perhaps good luck in the end as the 2EX's hold much promise.

The system they will become a part of is tube based with a Manley Labs Stingray II, with a Mag-Lev ML1 TT attached, as well as a Bluesound Node 2i to stream from my NAS and the web. The best of old-school meets digital....

Awesome! Can’t wait to hear your impressions. Mine are due to me on Monday, but probably won’t be able get dialed in right away.

racrawford65
10-23-2019, 02:46 PM
nice integrated amp - the Manley Stingray. I have their Chinook phono pre-amp. Great piece of equipment. Awesome service as well from EveAnna and team... just like Ascend.

jmlight1
10-25-2019, 09:29 AM
nice integrated amp - the Manley Stingray. I have their Chinook phono pre-amp. Great piece of equipment. Awesome service as well from EveAnna and team... just like Ascend.

Thanks, and I agree, the Stingray is a great amp. My system at home stands in contrast to the all digital Devialet system at the office... and I enjoy the sound of both immensely.

Speaking of sound... I'm not able to get into any detail yet as I've not had the chance to really push the 2EX's. I've played a few good jazz albums, and some high-rez digital files from the NAS, Alan Parsons I Robot, Led Zep x, and some others. I'm more struck by the RAAL tweeter than the new woofer, but like I said, I've not been able to really sit back alone and turn it up. First impressions vs the 170's are of course very positive! Huge upgrade!

I'm really looking forward to getting some hours on these and seeing how they settle in.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48958419016_8cd4c1dd8f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hAhGhG)Hifi (https://flic.kr/p/2hAhGhG) by Eric Mack (https://www.flickr.com/photos/184744451@N05/), on Flickr

Pic of the system before swapping in the Sierras

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48957869633_46b475193f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hAeSYz)Hifi2 (https://flic.kr/p/2hAeSYz) by Eric Mack (https://www.flickr.com/photos/184744451@N05/), on Flickr

davef
10-25-2019, 03:03 PM
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48958419016_8cd4c1dd8f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hAhGhG)Hifi (https://flic.kr/p/2hAhGhG) by Eric Mack (https://www.flickr.com/photos/184744451@N05/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48957869633_46b475193f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hAeSYz)Hifi2 (https://flic.kr/p/2hAeSYz) by Eric Mack (https://www.flickr.com/photos/184744451@N05/), on Flickr


Wow!

ed_bob
11-30-2019, 05:32 AM
Wow I can’t believe I hadn’t heard this news until the Black Friday email! Sadly, I’ll probably have to wait several more months before I can spend for the upgrade kit for my Sierra 2s, but you better believe I’m doing it as soon as I can get my wife on board!

I’ve had my Sierra 2s for over a year and a half and am still amazed by them every day. I haven’t had the speaker upgrade itch since I bought these (well until the EX was announced anyway)!

I don’t use a sub, so seeing the bass extension go from 46Hz to 38Hz anechoic while only sacrificing 1dB in sensitivity is very exciting and downright impressive!

Many thanks to Dave and Dina for continuing to innovate and for offering upgrade kits at relatively affordable prices to your customers!

Can’t wait to hear these. Cheers!

petmotel
01-22-2020, 09:35 AM
Haven't been on this forum for a while, last thing I was closely following was the Luna development. I just very recently caught up on the S2 Diamond development, which of course led to the S2-EX (or sex for short). The improvement of this speaker over the Sierra-2 is almost inconceivable to me, the performance of the regular 2 being stunning in it's own right.

I have a pair of nice gloss espresso cabinets with Sierra-1 NRT drivers, so wanting to experience what is in my mind one of the best two way bookshelf speakers available at any price, I ordered upgrade kits for this stereo pair to Sierra-2EX components. I'm still almost unable to grasp the idea that the Sierra-2 is able to be substantially improved upon, but that is the reality of Dave's passion for creating top tier performance in an affordable package. What a truly remarkable individual!

I think Ascend owners are a bit of a jaded lot, able to sample performance levels once relegated to the privileged few that could afford astronomically priced high end equipment. Even in that exclusive arena, there is no guarantee that the ridiculous costs of that gear results in sonic excellence, nowhere is the mantra "Buyer Beware" more appropriate.

Jay

kmmccorm
01-23-2020, 07:55 AM
Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on pairing the Sierra 2-EX with the CMT-340 center?

davef
01-27-2020, 02:59 PM
Does anyone have any experience or thoughts on pairing the Sierra 2-EX with the CMT-340 center?

While this isn't ideal, we have had a few customers do this and they have reported good results.

kmmccorm
01-27-2020, 03:14 PM
Thanks! I actually spoke with one of your helpful associates on Friday and she provided the same guidance. I ordered the 2-EXs and the Luna Duo center on Saturday 🙂

kmmccorm
02-06-2020, 04:14 PM
I got my S2-EX and Duo center today, amazing first impressions and looking forward to breaking them in a bit. Based on suggestions from other threads I also got the Sanua SF-26 stands. Since the speakers don’t have screw holes on the bottom, what is the best way to sit them on the stands? Just use the included pads? I imagine the SF-26 spike screws aren’t a great option?

racrawford65
02-06-2020, 04:26 PM
I wouldn't screw into the speaker cabinets. Blu-Tac works well. A bit on the stand top on each corner and the center, then set the speaker on it & press.

Veda
03-25-2020, 02:44 AM
Damn I took a leave for 5 years then saw this release, sold my Sierra 2 RAALs 5 mins later, now trying to decide which cabinet finish to get.

2ChannelListening
03-16-2021, 07:44 AM
Greetings Ascend Acoustics fans. I've been working my way through these wonderful speakers; starting with S1's, then S2's and now the 2EX. I have personally owned more than 35 pairs of speakers and I have to say the build quality and sound quality at this price point is nothing short of amazing. I'm an amateur reviewer, cutting my teeth one week at a time.

If you are interested in my take with how special I think the 2EX are, please see my breakdown video. Thank you all.

https://youtu.be/NquRKdH5RWk

theophile
03-16-2021, 10:11 AM
Greetings Ascend Acoustics fans. I've been working my way through these wonderful speakers; starting with S1's, then S2's and now the 2EX. I have personally owned more than 35 pairs of speakers and I have to say the build quality and sound quality at this price point is nothing short of amazing. I'm an amateur reviewer, cutting my teeth one week at a time.

If you are interested in my take with how special I think the 2EX are, please see my breakdown video. Thank you all.

https://youtu.be/NquRKdH5RWk

2CL,

Hello and Welcome to the AA Forum! :D

I viewed your Sierra 2EX review as soon as it came out...wonderful report and as being a new 2EX owner myself (past 6 weeks), I have to agree with your comments of the superior midrange, bass punch and extension the "EX" brings to the Sierra 2! They have amazing prowess in energizing my listening room with very natural, tight and extremely well defined upper/lower midrange and upper/lower bass. Tonality and resolution are excellent in their response range and Dave has fitted these EX perfectly to the RAAL custom trademark tweeter...VERY SWEET!!

I listen to orchestral, large choral and pipe organ (+ jazz, blues, small string-wind ensembles, solo vocals), thus have the 2EX's paired with a very musical sub. High pass and low pass are set to 50hz and top to bottom (30Khz down to 18hz), and in my dedicated 2-channel music room, I am missing...NOTHING!!!

I also need to add that with the 2EX (vs Sierra2 and Sierra1 NrT), the soundstage is better defined, has much more air around the performers and can easily extend Well Beyond all room boundaries in my intimate near field 90sf sound room!! All genre of acoustical and amplified music comes closest to "live performances" as I ever heard. The 2EX's offer a critical and accurate window not only into the music, but also the recorded venue, the medium (mics, mixing, etc.) and the energy and soul of the performers...Thanks Dave!!! :cool:

Ted

2ChannelListening
03-16-2021, 11:10 AM
Much appreciated Ted, thank you for the warm welcome!

I believe you when you say you are missing nothing. Nice CD player by the way. I will be lurking from time to time :D

- Jason

theophile
03-16-2021, 11:43 AM
Much appreciated Ted, thank you for the warm welcome!

I believe you when you say you are missing nothing. Nice CD player by the way. I will be lurking from time to time :D

- Jason

Thanks Jason. After 33 years, it started skipping last week. I took off the cover and lightly cleaned the laser housing lens with Ronson lighter fluid on a q-tip! Have about 24 hrs of listening since without a single tracking error...seems to sound even better than when new!!! ;)

Ted

Mag_Neato
03-16-2021, 12:23 PM
Greetings Ascend Acoustics fans. I've been working my way through these wonderful speakers; starting with S1's, then S2's and now the 2EX. I have personally owned more than 35 pairs of speakers and I have to say the build quality and sound quality at this price point is nothing short of amazing. I'm an amateur reviewer, cutting my teeth one week at a time.

If you are interested in my take with how special I think the 2EX are, please see my breakdown video. Thank you all.

https://youtu.be/NquRKdH5RWk

Jason, I enjoyed your review!

A couple minor corrections:
1. The SEAS Excel woofer was originally created to pair with SEAS' Diamond tweeters that Dave
created a Sierra Diamond speaker that sold for $7K/pair. All of us customers asked if he could pair
that woofer with the RAAL and create an uber Sierra-2.

2. The woofer is a 6" vs 5 1/4"

Other than that, great job!

2ChannelListening
03-16-2021, 06:11 PM
Thank you for that correction, it was a little confusing when taking the measurements. I will go back and add a line in the comments. Thanks for the clarification! :)

2ChannelListening
03-16-2021, 06:15 PM
Thanks Jason. After 33 years, it started skipping last week. I took off the cover and lightly cleaned the laser housing lens with Ronson lighter fluid on a q-tip! Have about 24 hrs of listening since without a single tracking error...seems to sound even better than when new!!! ;)

Ted

That is really impressive.

davef
03-16-2021, 11:55 PM
Thank you for that correction, it was a little confusing when taking the measurements. I will go back and add a line in the comments. Thanks for the clarification! :)

Lots of information about the EX woofer in this thread:

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?6237-Diamond-Tweeter

It's a huge thread but quite informative.

davef
05-31-2021, 10:07 PM
We are most pleased to publish Sierra-2EX Klippel NFS Measurements.

The Klippel NFS is a fully automated robotic measurement device that uses advanced technologies to achieve true full-range exceptionally high-resolution directivity measurements that are considerably more accurate than anything else currently available. These measurements allow for a deep peek into the performance of any speaker.

For more information about this device, please see here:

https://www.facebook.com/warkwyn/videos/1252153234854627/

http://www.klippel.de/products/rd-system/modules/nfs-near-field-scanner.html

The following measurements took ~ 6 hours and used 4800 individual measurements (1600 different microphone positions) to achieve ~ 99.5% accuracy. There are 20 data points per octave to conform to CEA-2034 standards. The measurement at each of the 1600 different microphone positions was taken 3 times and averaged together to improve the signal to noise ratio further enhancing accuracy.

The key points that these measurements reveal is the remarkably wide and linear horizonal dispersion as seen in the contour plot (+/- 80 degs!), as well as the excellent estimated in-room response. The directivity index in the CEA-2034 plot shows extremely tight integration between our EX woofer and the RAAL ribbon. These measurements also match up well with our original published measurements but are more accurate as there is no time gating or smoothing.

Enjoy!

2046

2044

2043

2042

2041

goldark
06-01-2021, 04:25 AM
We are most pleased to publish Sierra-2EX Klippel NFS Measurements.

The Klippel NFS is a fully automated robotic measurement device that uses advanced technologies to achieve true full-range exceptionally high-resolution directivity measurements that are considerably more accurate than anything else currently available. These measurements allow for a deep peek into the performance of any speaker.

For more information about this device, please see here:

https://www.facebook.com/warkwyn/videos/1252153234854627/

http://www.klippel.de/products/rd-system/modules/nfs-near-field-scanner.html

The following measurements took ~ 6 hours and used 4800 individual measurements (1600 different microphone positions) to achieve ~ 99.5% accuracy. There are 20 data points per octave to conform to CEA-2034 standards. The measurement at each of the 1600 different microphone positions was taken 3 times and averaged together to improve the signal to noise ratio further enhancing accuracy.

The key points that these measurements reveal is the remarkably wide and linear horizonal dispersion as seen in the contour plot (+/- 80 degs!), as well as the excellent estimated in-room response. The directivity index in the CEA-2034 plot shows extremely tight integration between our EX woofer and the RAAL ribbon. These measurements also match up well with our original published measurements but are more accurate as there is no time gating or smoothing.

Enjoy!

2046

2044

2043

2042

2041


Looks great, Dave! Any chance you'll publish Klippel scans for the rest of Ascend's speakers?

Shazb0t
06-01-2021, 04:38 AM
We are most pleased to publish Sierra-2EX Klippel NFS Measurements.

The Klippel NFS is a fully automated robotic measurement device that uses advanced technologies to achieve true full-range exceptionally high-resolution directivity measurements that are considerably more accurate than anything else currently available. These measurements allow for a deep peek into the performance of any speaker.

For more information about this device, please see here:

https://www.facebook.com/warkwyn/videos/1252153234854627/

http://www.klippel.de/products/rd-system/modules/nfs-near-field-scanner.html

The following measurements took ~ 6 hours and used 4800 individual measurements (1600 different microphone positions) to achieve ~ 99.5% accuracy. There are 20 data points per octave to conform to CEA-2034 standards. The measurement at each of the 1600 different microphone positions was taken 3 times and averaged together to improve the signal to noise ratio further enhancing accuracy.

The key points that these measurements reveal is the remarkably wide and linear horizonal dispersion as seen in the contour plot (+/- 80 degs!), as well as the excellent estimated in-room response. The directivity index in the CEA-2034 plot shows extremely tight integration between our EX woofer and the RAAL ribbon. These measurements also match up well with our original published measurements but are more accurate as there is no time gating or smoothing.

Enjoy!

2046

2044

2043

2042

2041

Awesome! Thanks for taking the time to get these properly measured and for following the current loudspeaker research. Many manufacturers don't do either.

Any chance we'll see something similar for the Sierra RAAL Towers?

RicardoJoa
06-01-2021, 05:38 AM
Awesome! Thanks for taking the time to get these properly measured and for following the current loudspeaker research. Many manufacturers don't do either.

Any chance we'll see something similar for the Sierra RAAL Towers?

ASR did a horizon measurement, it should be pretty close to the sierra tower.

Mag_Neato
06-01-2021, 06:29 AM
ASR did a horizon measurement, it should be pretty close to the sierra tower.

I'd think Dave would prefer to take his own measurements rather than rely on a 3rd party for those.

Theoretically if the Klippel setup is an automated, hit "GO" and collect the results affair than the measurements should be similar. Although Dave has had less play time with it, I'd give him the edge when it comes to getting this right given his decades of professional experience.

jimb
06-01-2021, 08:24 AM
we are most pleased to publish sierra-2ex klippel nfs measurements.

The klippel nfs is a fully automated robotic measurement device that uses advanced technologies to achieve true full-range exceptionally high-resolution directivity measurements that are considerably more accurate than anything else currently available. These measurements allow for a deep peek into the performance of any speaker.

...

The key points that these measurements reveal is the remarkably wide and linear horizonal dispersion as seen in the contour plot (+/- 80 degs!), as well as the excellent estimated in-room response. The directivity index in the cea-2034 plot shows extremely tight integration between our ex woofer and the raal ribbon. These measurements also match up well with our original published measurements but are more accurate as there is no time gating or smoothing.

...



nice!

PATB
06-01-2021, 12:08 PM
I just placed my order for a Sierra 2EX. The lady who answered the phone was very helpful and informative. I learned about the Sierra 2EX from the Hoffman forum.

The Sierra 2EX will replace my 5-year old Epos K1s, which I bought used from my local dealer as a "place holder" until I can afford a decent speaker. Well, I couldn't really find much fault about the Epos, even after auditioning a Proac Tablette and Harbeth P3ESR before the pandemic. Having read great reviews and after much "research", I think the Sierra 2EX is the ticket for me.

I will be using the Sierra 2EX with a Rega Elex-R and a REL T5i. My only concern is that I have very limited space; the speakers will have be placed about 10" from a rear wall. I will have to make compromises but that is the price of living in the Bay Area. I am looking forward to participating in this community.

theophile
06-01-2021, 01:45 PM
I just placed my order for a Sierra 2EX. The lady who answered the phone was very helpful and informative. I learned about the Sierra 2EX from the Hoffman forum.

The Sierra 2EX will replace my 5-year old Epos K1s, which I bought used from my local dealer as a "place holder" until I can afford a decent speaker. Well, I couldn't really find much fault about the Epos, even after auditioning a Proac Tablette and Harbeth P3ESR before the pandemic. Having read great reviews and after much "research", I think the Sierra 2EX is the ticket for me.

I will be using the Sierra 2EX with a Rega Elex-R and a REL T5i. My only concern is that I have very limited space; the speakers will have be placed about 10" from a rear wall. I will have to make compromises but that is the price of living in the Bay Area. I am looking forward to participating in this community.

Hello PATB and Welcome to the Ascend Acoustic Forum! :D

Congrats on your Sierra-2EX purchase...Great Choice!! :cool: You've probably found several 2EX reviews HERE (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/forumdisplay.php?29-Verified-User-Reviews), but also there is a real good U-Tube video HERE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NquRKdH5RWk)!! Possibly, you've been following the 2EX threads HERE (https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/search/84500877/?q=Ascend+Acoustics+Sierra-2EX&o=relevance&c[node]=5)?!?

Not a lot to add to the above, but believe you will find the Sierra-2EX Very Accurate Monitors...Enjoy! :)

Ted

Beave
06-01-2021, 07:00 PM
Very nice measurements! And they match what others have described when comparing them to original Sierra 2 version - more midbass and a bit smoother in the upper mids.

Side note: Somebody needs to post this in the Loudspeakers section of this forum! I saw reference to these measurements on another forum but couldn't find them here for the longest time! (I hardly ever look at the "Announcements" section.) ;)

davef
06-02-2021, 06:45 PM
I just placed my order for a Sierra 2EX. The lady who answered the phone was very helpful and informative. I learned about the Sierra 2EX from the Hoffman forum.

The Sierra 2EX will replace my 5-year old Epos K1s, which I bought used from my local dealer as a "place holder" until I can afford a decent speaker. Well, I couldn't really find much fault about the Epos, even after auditioning a Proac Tablette and Harbeth P3ESR before the pandemic. Having read great reviews and after much "research", I think the Sierra 2EX is the ticket for me.

I will be using the Sierra 2EX with a Rega Elex-R and a REL T5i. My only concern is that I have very limited space; the speakers will have be placed about 10" from a rear wall. I will have to make compromises but that is the price of living in the Bay Area. I am looking forward to participating in this community.

Thanks so much for placing your order and welcome to our forum!

10" of clearance behind the speakers is plenty, especially if you will be high passing the speakers. Still, even if running them full range, 10" will not be a problem.

enjoy!!!

SunByrne
06-07-2021, 09:28 AM
We are most pleased to publish Sierra-2EX Klippel NFS Measurements.

Wow, you got a Klippel. Quite an acquisition. Or did you just have access to one and got to put a 2EX in it? Was this inspired by the ASR results with the Lunas/Duos, per chance? What ever happened with all that, anyway?

Regardless, the results for the S2-EX are quite compelling, particularly the horizontal dispersion—not that great horizontal dispersion is a surprise. In-room response overall outstandingly smooth, too, and great impedance results.

Also as expected, slight bowing upward of the in-room means they'll sound just a teensy touch bright to some, which I'm sure the ASR guy will say makes them terrible. :rolleyes:

Stands up well against the competition, too. Overall a little better than what I think of as the nearest competitor in its price class, the Buchardt S400 (though the S400 is actually more expensive, especially given exchange rates). Close with the Philharmonic BMR, though the BMR spins I've seen I don't think come from an actual Klippel. Also, the BMR is physically much bigger and somewhat harder to get your hands on with the irregular shipping schedule. (Unless you want to pay a lot more for the Salk version.)

No distortion results, though?

davef
06-07-2021, 06:01 PM
the results for the S2-EX are quite compelling, particularly the horizontal dispersion—not that great horizontal dispersion is a surprise. In-room response overall outstandingly smooth, too, and great impedance results.

Also as expected, slight bowing upward of the in-room means they'll sound just a teensy touch bright to some, which I'm sure the ASR guy will say makes them terrible. :rolleyes:


Yes, the horizontal dispersion is remarkable as to how wide and linear it remains, with no narrowing. It clearly shows just how well the RAAL ribbon blends with our EX woofer.


Those who think they can judge the “brightness” of one speaker compared to another that have dramatically differing radiation patterns by simply viewing the estimated in-room response graph would be in for a surprise if they actually spent the time to listen. We have never had a single Sierra-2EX customer comment that the speaker sounds bright, most comment that is on the warm detailed side.


I have done extensive comparisons with the 2EX compared to the Revel M106, most have found the M106 to sound brighter in comparison (including myself) This could also be due to the fact that the 2EX has considerably deeper bass extension and also more midbass so more research needs to be done on my part, but this is something I am heavily vested in.


The calculation determining EIR is heavily weighted towards the horizontal response of the speaker. With such wide horizontal dispersion, EIR will always appear to be tilted up a bit in the high frequency range (keep in mind that woofer dispersion is horizontally and vertically symmetrical)


Since vertical dispersion of the ribbon is more limited compared to a dome, the total energy released into the room is actually a bit less which isn’t represented in the EIR due to the weighting I mentioned above.


EIR works well when comparing two speakers with similar radiation patterns (for example, dome speaker vs dome speaker) but things get thrown off when we introduce a tweeter with dramatically different radiation.


It is also important to keep in mind that CEA-2034 is based on technology and research that occurred in the 80’s. It looks at only 2-axis (+/- 180 degs vertically and +/- 180 degs horizontally). Sound produced by a speaker is 3 dimensional, not 2. For example, we also hear the energy produced at every possible angle from the speaker (for example, 30 degrees vertically and 30 degrees horizontally). This energy is not measured in the CEA-2034 standards because, to be honest, it was a practical impossibility back then to measure it. We placed a speaker on a turntable vertically, rotated the speaker 360 degrees and recorded measurements at every 10 degs. We then positioned the speaker horizontally and did the same.

The NFS changes all of this as it moves the mic around the speaker in a sphere (two 3 dimensional cylinders actually) and we are able to see a much truer picture of the actual energy produced.

I have a hunch that at some point, CEA-2034 standards will be updated to reflect this new technology and thus provide a truer visualization as to correlating what we hear with what can be measured.

SunByrne
06-07-2021, 08:46 PM
Those who think they can judge the “brightness” of one speaker compared to another that have dramatically differing radiation patterns by simply viewing the estimated in-room response graph would be in for a surprise if they actually spent the time to listen. We have never had a single Sierra-2EX customer comment that the speaker sounds bright, most comment that is on the warm detailed side.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. I agree with you; I don't find the S2-EX to be bright.

What I was trying to say is that the ASR guy, who usually takes the measurements and looks at them before he does his subjective listening test, will interpret that measurement to mean the speakers are bright, which he says he hates, so he ultimately won't recommend them.

Unless of course they were Revels, in which case he'd swear they sound amazing.

For those who don't get what I'm aiming at, look at the measurements of the Sierra Horizon vs. the measurements for the $2500 Revel center channel. They measure quite similarly (with the exception of some low-frequency resonance). Yet somehow the Horizon is barely adequate and the Revel is sonic perfection. It's borderline comical.

petmotel
06-09-2021, 01:44 PM
I truly can't imagine anyone not enjoying the upper frequencies of any of the RAAL equipped Ascends. Nor would I think anyone would characterize them as being bright. I've tried to avoid commenting on the "reviews" at ASR, my momma told me if you can't say something nice...

What I can say is that in their price range, and well above it, I've not heard anything to rival my EXs, Dave's original measurements were clearly quite accurate, the Klippel measurements confirming so.

Jay

Shazb0t
06-26-2021, 06:29 PM
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. I agree with you; I don't find the S2-EX to be bright.

What I was trying to say is that the ASR guy, who usually takes the measurements and looks at them before he does his subjective listening test, will interpret that measurement to mean the speakers are bright, which he says he hates, so he ultimately won't recommend them.

Unless of course they were Revels, in which case he'd swear they sound amazing.

For those who don't get what I'm aiming at, look at the measurements of the Sierra Horizon vs. the measurements for the $2500 Revel center channel. They measure quite similarly (with the exception of some low-frequency resonance). Yet somehow the Horizon is barely adequate and the Revel is sonic perfection. It's borderline comical.
The Horizon was recommended. The Sierra 2 also got a good review. There's really no reason to be upset or have an agenda. At the end of the day all speaker reviews offer an opinion.

PATB
07-02-2021, 10:20 AM
Another concern I had with the 2EX is that they might be too bright for me. I am very sensitive to tipped up treble, and a youtube video showing foam add-ons for RAAL tweeters to tame brightness scared me! Well, having listened to my 2EX for weeks now, I can confidently say they are not bright. The highs are extended but with a hint of warmth -- I can listen for hours.

I threw away the boxes last week, as I am 100% sure the 2EX are staying. They have the proper dimensions for my smallish room and have the sound I prefer at a price I can afford.

theophile
07-06-2021, 05:52 AM
Another concern I had with the 2EX is that they might be too bright for me. I am very sensitive to tipped up treble, and a youtube video showing foam add-ons for RAAL tweeters to tame brightness scared me! Well, having listened to my 2EX for weeks now, I can confidently say they are not bright. The highs are extended but with a hint of warmth -- I can listen for hours.

I threw away the boxes last week, as I am 100% sure the 2EX are staying. They have the proper dimensions for my smallish room and have the sound I prefer at a price I can afford.

PATB,

Agreed! Dave's skill and finesse to integrate the RAAL and EX transducers into a homogeneous single point source of full range sound is brilliant! I'm daily "blown away" by the huge step up in Live performance the 2EX offers over the S2 room presentation...simply Breathtaking!!! :o

Ted

SonusSancti
08-12-2021, 10:58 PM
Hi Dave,

Can you tell us more about the Raal tweeter? How it was chosen, how it compares to the diamond tweeter, its crossover point, etc. Thanks!

theophile
08-13-2021, 12:54 AM
Hi Dave,
Can you tell us more about the Raal tweeter? How it was chosen, how it compares to the diamond tweeter, its crossover point, etc. Thanks!

SS,

Hello and Welcome to the AA Forum! :o

See HERE (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?4978-Sierra-2-Development-Thread&p=43986#post43986), and HERE (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?4978-Sierra-2-Development-Thread&p=45403#post45403), and HERE (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?4978-Sierra-2-Development-Thread&p=46809#post46809)! Hopefully, these post can answer most of your questions!

Ted

davef
08-17-2021, 08:27 PM
Hi Dave,

Can you tell us more about the Raal tweeter? How it was chosen, how it compares to the diamond tweeter, its crossover point, etc. Thanks!

Hi SonusSancti,

The tweeter in the Sierra-2EX is the same as in our Sierra-2. Together with RAAL (the manufacturer) we actually designed this tweeter.

There is a ton more information in the Sierra-2 development thread here:

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?4978-Sierra-2-Development-Thread

Are you familiar with true ribbon tweeters?

Pogre
09-03-2021, 06:45 AM
The Horizon was recommended. The Sierra 2 also got a good review. There's really no reason to be upset or have an agenda. At the end of the day all speaker reviews offer an opinion.

"I give it a like but for some reason is not something I would buy."

That seems like a pretty passive agressive "recommendation" to me...

MDinno
12-20-2021, 05:01 AM
"I give it a like but for some reason is not something I would buy."

That seems like a pretty passive agressive "recommendation" to me...

I'm glad Erin's Audio Corner is catching on now and people will gravitate away from the other guy.

ahender
12-21-2022, 10:09 AM
"I give it a like but for some reason is not something I would buy."

That seems like a pretty passive agressive "recommendation" to me...

I just re-read that review. You are spot on.

ahender
12-21-2022, 10:13 AM
I'm glad Erin's Audio Corner is catching on now and people will gravitate away from the other guy.

The list of speaker reviews should at least be alphabetized on Erin’s Audio.

rvsixer
01-22-2023, 05:16 PM
The list of speaker reviews should at least be alphabetized on Erin’s Audio.

They are listed in chronological order. IMO better than alphabetical, as it keeps what's current at the top of the list.

I sure hope Erin finds a new home for his Klippel soon. I have a few speakers that need testing :) .

davef
01-25-2023, 01:24 AM
They are listed in chronological order. IMO better than alphabetical, as it keeps what's current at the top of the list.

I sure hope Erin finds a new home for his Klippel soon. I have a few speakers that need testing :) .

Watched his video regarding the divorce. Very sad. I know of a company considering purchasing one, I told them to contact Erin, my guess is that he likely needs to sell it.

rvsixer
01-26-2023, 06:41 AM
...my guess is that he likely needs to sell it.
:( .