Really wanting to keep the Sierras

[epatt]

Hello community..

Long time lurker first time poster. I have had the pleasure of having the Sierra 2’s at home now for coming up on three weeks. I am going to explain my use case, my experiences, and I am openly soliciting any feedback, options, and suggestions.

Having been a long time Klipsch fan, going back to my younger years with Heresy’s, Fortes, etc. So much so, I built a home theater around that sound. All Ref series and it sounds fantastic for what it is used for.

Recently, I have found myself looking to get back to more traditional 2 channel listening, from my office/desk. Originally tried the typical Logitech setup… several iterations…that wasn’t going to do it. Then I thought about Klipsch. Ordered some RP16Ms. Certainly better than the Logitech but I found it really hard to listen to them for extended periods of time. Really in my face, bright, and while they certainly were able to get loud, I just found that I wouldn’t play music because the sound was not inviting. Sure, some of it is the music, TOOL, Metallica, etc, but also Stanley Jordan, Coltrane, Krall. It didn’t really matter. I would eventually get tired of listening it was simply a matter of how quickly, depending on the content.


What to do? Went to the local HiFi shop. Picked up a few different Integrated amps to see if the amplifying made a difference. Tried, Cambridge, Peachtree, Hegel, Parasound, Rotel, etc etc etc. What I found was that I just don’t like the Klipsch, at least for near field listening at all. So, trying different speakers. To date, Klipsch, Ascend Sierra 2, KEF LS50, Focal Aria 906, Sonus Faber Venere 2.0 and I have it down to either the Sierra 2 or the LS50.

Now the conundrum:

I like the Sierra 2, a lot, but I find that for near field, they seem TOO bright. The LS50 on the other hand don’t, But my problem is when I switch between them I feel like I want the clarity of the sierra2 but with the ease of listening of the LS50. I believe I have the AMP selected in the Parasound HALO integrated or, possibly the Hegel 160. Both have similar sound to me the former having a lot more extensibility (features)

My ask:

Does anyone have any thoughts on the best way to make this decision? I fancy myself someone whom appreciates finer things. I place importance on things like engineering, performance, craftsmanship, and value, Based on that I really want the Sierras, but I feel like I am trying to put a perfect round peg in a square hole. I have no doubt, that if given a different placement, ie more traditional setup (not on a desk) that the sharp highs I hear in the Sierras would be seen as an attribute.. its just close up they are piercing, to me.

Current test bed

Desk is like 9 feet long by 4 feet deep
Speakers are placed on ISOAcoustics Aperta stands
Speakers are at the far edges of the desk slightly toed in
Left Speaker is in a corner right is not
MLP is centered roughly 3-4 feet from right and left speaker

Not concerned with bass. This is just fine. It’s the highs..


Any help is again most appreciated

Thanks

Elliott

[Blutarsky]

I had the same problem with Sierra-2 speakers and live performances with high sound levels.
I had a hearing test done and found that I have a form of tinnitus, not the type with constant ringing.
So, get your ears checked before assuming sound problems are equipment based.
I wonder how many music enthusiasts have spent a lot of money trying to solve these issues?

[epatt]

Blu.. i appreciate the feedback. What was the prognosis? I hope all worked out for you. To my point however, no blame is to be assigned here. I am not making any assumptions anywhere. Only stating my experiences If i look at what i can effect change in, the purchase/use of a specific component is one. Placement is another. Acoustic treatments would be yet another. Unfortunately, any hearing deficits i may or may not have would be outside the scope of my immediate control. Was there anything you were able to do to adjust the environment, setup, components to help in your process?

[Blutarsky]

I am going to get digital hearing aids that can be tuned for my specific hearing. All of those years of live concerts were sure a lot of fun though......

Your problem sounds a lot like what I am experiencing- Discomfort and shrillness Personally, I found that getting Ascend Towers with the Nrt domes helped, but others might find the RAAL to be better for hearing problems.

If you are >50 years old, a hearing test is a good thing to do...before you accuse your spouse of mumbling, as I did :)
B.

[sludgeogre]

I think the best thing to pursue is room treatment, absorption on the walls beside and behind you should help with some of the piercing sounds.

If that doesn't work or is not appealing, I would get a MiniDSP 2x4 and just play with the response a little bit until you get what you want. That way you'd still get all of that detail you love, buy you could shelve the highs a little bit.

[epatt]

Alex,

thank you for the suggestion.. The miniDSP is an interesting option. Currently the DAC built into the HALO supports 32bit. Would the miniDSP take precedence over the amplifier settings? Not sure i need 32 bit but my buying this particular integrated was predicated on some of these forward looking features.

do i have the topology correct, source (PC in this case) --> miniDSP--> amp?

[bobola]

Elliott,

Having carefully auditioned the LS50 and ending up with the Sierra-2, I can understand your dilemma very well. I found after about 2 months of use that the Sierra-2s were giving me a little more high frequency energy than I was comfortable with. Easy solution was to use the tone controls on my stereo receiver. The receiver treble control cuts anything >10,000 hz; setting the control to -3 cuts the treble about 3 db at my chair. After two years, I have absolutely no regrets going with the Sierra-2, and the tone controls stay where they are: -3 for treble, +3 for bass. I would just suggest that you select an amp that has good tone controls. (I believe the Parasound has those, and the Hegel does not; I have a Rotel 2-channel receiver.)

I never got the chance to audition the LS50 in my own space. My impression, however, is that the LS50 is a bit more forward in the midrange, pushing male voices closer to the listener; it's very involving this way, and really a great speaker. However, I think the Sierra-2 is better balanced, with incredible, natural sounding detail from top to bottom; microdynamics are superb.

I should add that my space is very small, 10x10x8 ft, and I don't mean in any way to criticize the Sierra-2 design; the treble balance may well work better in a larger room. I did read a post from another respected speaker designer that Ascend's designs tend to put more treble energy in the room than some others; I'll bet the power response (not just the on-axis response) of the Sierra-2 is flatter than most others.

Good luck!
Bob

[davef]

Hello community..

Long time lurker first time poster. I have had the pleasure of having the Sierra 2’s at home now for coming up on three weeks. I am going to explain my use case, my experiences, and I am openly soliciting any feedback, options, and suggestions.

Having been a long time Klipsch fan, going back to my younger years with Heresy’s, Fortes, etc. So much so, I built a home theater around that sound. All Ref series and it sounds fantastic for what it is used for.

Recently, I have found myself looking to get back to more traditional 2 channel listening, from my office/desk. Originally tried the typical Logitech setup… several iterations…that wasn’t going to do it. Then I thought about Klipsch. Ordered some RP16Ms. Certainly better than the Logitech but I found it really hard to listen to them for extended periods of time. Really in my face, bright, and while they certainly were able to get loud, I just found that I wouldn’t play music because the sound was not inviting. Sure, some of it is the music, TOOL, Metallica, etc, but also Stanley Jordan, Coltrane, Krall. It didn’t really matter. I would eventually get tired of listening it was simply a matter of how quickly, depending on the content.


What to do? Went to the local HiFi shop. Picked up a few different Integrated amps to see if the amplifying made a difference. Tried, Cambridge, Peachtree, Hegel, Parasound, Rotel, etc etc etc. What I found was that I just don’t like the Klipsch, at least for near field listening at all. So, trying different speakers. To date, Klipsch, Ascend Sierra 2, KEF LS50, Focal Aria 906, Sonus Faber Venere 2.0 and I have it down to either the Sierra 2 or the LS50.

Now the conundrum:

I like the Sierra 2, a lot, but I find that for near field, they seem TOO bright. The LS50 on the other hand don’t, But my problem is when I switch between them I feel like I want the clarity of the sierra2 but with the ease of listening of the LS50. I believe I have the AMP selected in the Parasound HALO integrated or, possibly the Hegel 160. Both have similar sound to me the former having a lot more extensibility (features)

My ask:

Does anyone have any thoughts on the best way to make this decision? I fancy myself someone whom appreciates finer things. I place importance on things like engineering, performance, craftsmanship, and value, Based on that I really want the Sierras, but I feel like I am trying to put a perfect round peg in a square hole. I have no doubt, that if given a different placement, ie more traditional setup (not on a desk) that the sharp highs I hear in the Sierras would be seen as an attribute.. its just close up they are piercing, to me.

Current test bed

Desk is like 9 feet long by 4 feet deep
Speakers are placed on ISOAcoustics Aperta stands
Speakers are at the far edges of the desk slightly toed in
Left Speaker is in a corner right is not
MLP is centered roughly 3-4 feet from right and left speaker

Not concerned with bass. This is just fine. It’s the highs..


Any help is again most appreciated

Thanks

Elliott

Hi Elliott,

Can you please post a picture of the setup?

Thanks in advance!

[epatt]

Hello Dave.. Hoping this works..

https://1drv.ms/f/s!As7cEeQPhaWnhRyNLMdaVldToiCm

On another note.. I will say, that at volume the sierras sound markedly better than the LS50. How much time will be spent at those higher volumes is questionable as again, this is a nearfield set up really nice PC monitors:)

Please excuse the photos. We just built this house and my office is the last thing on the priority list:)

Your thoughts and suggestions are very much appreciated.


regards,

elliott

[sludgeogre]

Really pretty setup, well done. I would, however, put the speakers closer to the monitors so you get better soundstaging, they're a bit far apart right now.


Alex,

thank you for the suggestion.. The miniDSP is an interesting option. Currently the DAC built into the HALO supports 32bit. Would the miniDSP take precedence over the amplifier settings? Not sure i need 32 bit but my buying this particular integrated was predicated on some of these forward looking features.

do i have the topology correct, source (PC in this case) --> miniDSP--> amp?

Sorry, I didn't realize you already had the Halo. The MiniDSP isn't a DAC so you can't use it with the Halo, you have to put it between a DAC and an amp in order to take the DAC signal, perform DSP on it, and then send it to the amp.

[epatt]

Thanks Alex.. I ended up trimming the treb just a skosh.. While i would prefer to run flat, it has helped. With regards to placement..... as much as it pains me to say it, i prefer the speaker placement, aesthetically anyway, out at the edges.. Ill play with the closer some more. I had tried already and was seeing negligible variances. If anything, the "brightness" that i was attempting to get away from was pronounced. Haven't tried again since trimming the treb gain a smidgen. Makes sense to do so..

[sludgeogre]

Thanks Alex.. I ended up trimming the treb just a skosh.. While i would prefer to run flat, it has helped. With regards to placement..... as much as it pains me to say it, i prefer the speaker placement, aesthetically anyway, out at the edges.. Ill play with the closer some more. I had tried already and was seeing negligible variances. If anything, the "brightness" that i was attempting to get away from was pronounced. Haven't tried again since trimming the treb gain a smidgen. Makes sense to do so..

If you prefer it that way, then to hell with it, heh. Not a dealbreaker by any means. It looks really cool too. Enjoy that beautiful setup!

[epatt]

Moved em in.. Keep'n em. One more question and maybe i should be starting another thread. I currently have the Parasound Integrated, love it, but i cant help but thinking, should i go separates???? P5/A21? I believe the sound is very mush the same but the separates would provide an additional 90w per channel. Being the Sierra 2s are on the low-er efficiency side of things (in caparison to Focal, Sonus, Klipsch and others), would i see an improvement with the additional power? The only other difference, written anyway, is the DAC in the Integrate supports more formats.

[sludgeogre]

Moved em in.. Keep'n em. One more question and maybe i should be starting another thread. I currently have the Parasound Integrated, love it, but i cant help but thinking, should i go separates???? P5/A21? I believe the sound is very mush the same but the separates would provide an additional 90w per channel. Being the Sierra 2s are on the low-er efficiency side of things (in caparison to Focal, Sonus, Klipsch and others), would i see an improvement with the additional power? The only other difference, written anyway, is the DAC in the Integrate supports more formats.

Cool, glad you liked the change.

I don't think you'll get much of an improvement, if any, from going with separates. You have a really stellar integrated, one of the best ones out there, with that much power in a near field setup, you're totally golden. Even with the low efficiency rating, at the distance you're sitting you're never going to use all of the power your amp is providing.

The only reason I'd go with separates (and do) is because you can change out your DAC and try different things like miniDSP and other types of gadetry. I'm a huge fan of Schiit's Multibit DACs. They are absolutely nuts and go far beyond what any other DAC does, IMO. No need to bother with multiple formats when those DACs will squeeze every last drop of detail out of normal 16/44.1 music.

[epatt]

Damn it man.. Im on a spending spree:)

When i do finish the office, the speakers will get a nice home.. Stands. Probably a few months out. My thinking was that at that time, they will have much more room to "breathe" and the additional power would be great. I did hook them up today at the parasound dealer to the separates, and they filled a rather large showroom with ease. Feed my addiction and tell me it would be wise to spend it now:)

On a side note, he was trying/suggesting that i look at the Sonus Faber Olymica1.. I obliged. I listened, then we hooked up the $6000 less expensive speakers (Sierras) and he wasn't sure how to justify the spend. It changed the dialog from sound quality to.. these are "made in italy", look at the lines, contours, leather and materials and such. Now, i can and do appreciate the details in the package, but not at the price premium we were talking in this case...and, to my ears today, a less engaging sound. As i had suspected, and mentioned in my starting post, the higher (brightness) i was struggling with, was such a difference in a more traditional listening setup. While i was listening to the Sierras he actual went and googled Ascend. Great experiance for me..

@ Dave,

if you see this. I would not be surprised if this dealer didn't contact you asking how to bring you in house..:)

regards,

elliott

[davef]

Damn it man.. Im on a spending spree:)

When i do finish the office, the speakers will get a nice home.. Stands. Probably a few months out. My thinking was that at that time, they will have much more room to "breathe" and the additional power would be great. I did hook them up today at the parasound dealer to the separates, and they filled a rather large showroom with ease. Feed my addiction and tell me it would be wise to spend it now:)

On a side note, he was trying/suggesting that i look at the Sonus Faber Olymica1.. I obliged. I listened, then we hooked up the $6000 less expensive speakers (Sierras) and he wasn't sure how to justify the spend. It changed the dialog from sound quality to.. these are "made in italy", look at the lines, contours, leather and materials and such. Now, i can and do appreciate the details in the package, but not at the price premium we were talking in this case...and, to my ears today, a less engaging sound. As i had suspected, and mentioned in my starting post, the higher (brightness) i was struggling with, was such a difference in a more traditional listening setup. While i was listening to the Sierras he actual went and googled Ascend. Great experiance for me..

@ Dave,

if you see this. I would not be surprised if this dealer didn't contact you asking how to bring you in house..:)

regards,

elliott

Thanks for sharing this experience! Those Olympica 1's do look fantastic.

One thing you might want to try with your setup - our ribbon tweeters have such broad horizontal dispersion that in many cases, toe-in is not necessary. For nearfield usage - I much prefer the Sierra-2 with zero toe-in.

Enjoy!

[mikesiskav]

An extra $6,000 for some contours and leather? No thank you!

[epatt]

agreed, and.. again, I did prefer the sound of the Sierra2. At least in that environment on that day with that music.

Update,

happily enjoying the Sierra 2 with the Parasound Integrated. Trying everything under the sun in that 2K speaker range, and 2-3k amp separates/integrated, this combo for me provided the best sound, with the most flexibility, at the best price..

thanks to this forum for the thoughtful feedback. It can be intimidating posting on such a deeply benched forum like this, with folks that seem to have been around for years who have obviously forgotten more than i know about HiFi.. Much appreciated guys. thank you.

[Jaybeez]

Thanks for sharing this experience! Those Olympica 1's do look fantastic.

One thing you might want to try with your setup - our ribbon tweeters have such broad horizontal dispersion that in many cases, toe-in is not necessary. For nearfield usage - I much prefer the Sierra-2 with zero toe-in.

Enjoy!


Just seeing this thread and was going to suggest the same thing (no toe in). This works in my near field listening quite well.
Also, my S2's are on stands with my ears about at the point between the woofer and ribbon tweeter. Perhaps being on the desk in your set up puts the tweeter closer to your ears, relatively speaking and may make them sound "treble heavy". Just a thought.

[sludgeogre]

I finally have my theater (mostly) set up and I'm sitting about 9 feet back from my towers, with them 10 feet apart, and I have them with zero toe in right now and the imaging is totally spot on, soundstage is huge and stable with a perfectly centered voice in stereo mode. It's pretty crazy. That big RAAL tweeter really puts out a wide sound, just as shown in the measurements.