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Lou-the-dog
10-08-2004, 12:12 AM
Oh Yeah!! My Dad's amp can beat up your Dad's amp!![:D]

Randy

Mag_Neato
10-08-2004, 12:56 AM
Ohhhhhh yeahhhhh! My Outlaw 1050 really "Kicks it"!!

Ed

Lou-the-dog
10-08-2004, 10:32 AM
Since you posted this I have visited the amp forum over at AVS. You're right... they really do go at each others throats. Seems like there are a couple folks that seem to really keep the worms stirred.

Randy

curtis
10-08-2004, 11:10 AM
That ATI thread is crazy. You can see I jumped out quickly.

-curtis

Lou-the-dog
10-08-2004, 11:28 AM
LOL!! Yeah, I noticed you were trying to add a little equilibrium to the fray. Best to wait 'till their testosterone levels subside. I'm starting to wonder if this is one of those, "the size of their amp is inversely related to the size of their manhood," type of things.

Randy

mattepntr
10-08-2004, 01:30 PM
Thanks Randy! I was trying to find a delicate way of putting that in
my post, but gave up![:D]

Quinn
10-08-2004, 11:50 PM
I haven't been on that thread. Folks in the biz I respect have told me ATI makes some of the best amps out there regardless of price.

Quinn
10-09-2004, 12:22 AM
I should have known TubeGuy was involved. Any thread with TG ends up like that. He is likely the most pompous conceited guy on the forums.

What the heck is a tube lover doing on a solid state thread anyway?

graphicguy
10-09-2004, 02:41 AM
Quinn....in TG's defense, he's helped me many times via PMs over at AVS. He's really a nice guy. I think he does get a little "involved" when things are posted that he knows to be wrong. He's very knowledgeable about pro amps since he used to be in that business for quite a few years. He's also done considerable testing on his own. He can be very opinionated and he makes no bones about his preferences. I don't always agree with him, either.

But, you guys are right that it's a "my amp is bigger/better than your amp" type of forum sometimes. You have to sift through all that stuff. If you're patient enough to do that, then you can find some very good info there. That said, I got caught in a couple of those "cross fires" over there and it did get ugly. [B)]

I would certainly use AVS forums as a tool for information about gear over the advice of your local B&M store sales people.

Matter of fact, once you are there for a while, you can seperate who the knowledgeable people are from the posers, there's some valuable information to be had. There's even posters there who work for the manufacturers. There are owners of high quality dealerships who post there and it's even a good sight for tech support that many times exceed what you can get for the customer support people that work for the manufacturers.

Sony WE610 60" LCD RPTV
Pioneer Elite 59TXi AVR
Pioneer Elite 59AVi Universal DVD player
CBM 340 Front L/R
CBM 340c Center
CBM 170s for L/R Surround
1-HTM 200 Rear Surround (6.1)
HSU VTF-3
Monster THX certified interconnects
DIY speaker cable (that's better than anyhing I can purchase elsewhere)

Lou-the-dog
10-09-2004, 05:07 AM
Take a look at the Crown pro-amp thread...."New amp is making me grin ear to ear." Seems like some are having success using these low cost ($230-$250) 2 channel Crown PA amps. Might be worth a try!?!?

Randy

Quinn
10-09-2004, 06:43 AM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by graphicguy

I think he does get a little "involved" when things are posted that he knows to be wrong. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I think it is more like he thinks he knows them to be wrong.

graphicguy
10-10-2004, 06:24 AM
Randy...I'm actually looking at those Crown Amps for my front channels. It seems there are some people that are using them with success. I'm not totally sold on whether they'd actually offer an improvement over what I already have, though.

Quinn, you are right....TG is very opinionated. That said, he's come to my defense more than once when I challenged one of the frequent professional reviewers and his obvious bias towards certain brands and models of equipment that I had some issues with. The reviewer, for the most part, flamed me stating his status as a "professional reviewer" had a lot more weight than those of us who bought gear with our own money and pointed out some well founded issues which the reviewer failed to report (at the time). He also helped me out with faulty gear from a well regarded manufacturer (who kept claiming their gear couldn't be faulty, but ended up having "un-fixable" issues).

Since he's a musician and was involved in the pro audio industry, I do find a good portion of his posts to offer some worthwhile assessments. Plus, he's pretty tight with a very high end dealer where he lives and can offer some insights on some esoteric equipment that I'll probably never have in my HT.

Sony WE610 60" LCD RPTV
Pioneer Elite 59TXi AVR
Pioneer Elite 59AVi Universal DVD player
CBM 340 Front L/R
CBM 340c Center
CBM 170s for L/R Surround
1-HTM 200 Rear Surround (6.1)
HSU VTF-3
Monster THX certified interconnects
DIY speaker cable (that's better than anyhing I can purchase elsewhere)

Lou-the-dog
10-10-2004, 09:21 AM
Graphicguy,

I have considered buying a couple of monoblocks for my mains and after reading some of this thread it appears these Crown 2 channel amps might be a very economical option. I haven't read ALL of this thread (60+ pages) but my impression is that alot of the posters' speakers are relatively inefficient. The exception is TubeGuy who is using a Carver pro amp (I believe) on the very efficient Klipsch speakers. Our Ascend's are pretty efficient so I wonder if we would see the success that some of those folks are? I dunno, but at $250 or less it would be a relatively low cost experiment. Tempting for sure!

Randy

Quinn
10-10-2004, 02:37 PM
Gg - I'll try to read some of his stuff with an open mind instead of just skipping it like I do now.

graphicguy
10-11-2004, 12:54 AM
Randy...like you, I'm debating what exactly could be derived by using seperate amps with efficient speakers like our Ascends. Particularly given the fact that using seperate amps could introduce yet another layer of complexity (in already complex set-ups) with additional cables and the potential problems associated with even more connections, potential compatability issues and the power/circuits you need coming out of the wall for those amps. I'm of the mind that simpler is better. I want as few cables and connections as possible to keep the signal paths to a minimum. There are plenty of people who will swear I'm a HT heretic by preferring a good AVR over seperates.

Even with well regarded gear, compatability is a large concern for me. I had a B&K piece in my HT for a while that couldn't play "nice" with my DVD player nor any HD cable box I could find. This was one of the fights TG helped me with. On one side was B&K saying that all the gear in my system was putting out garbage (huh????....3 different cable boxes, numerous interconnects and a top quality DVD player are all garbage?) and me saying that it was an issue with B&K. I took huge amounts of grief from the B&K fanatics over at AVS for that one--with TG staunchly on my side of the fence.

That's why I went the opposite direction with my set-up over the past few years in going from seperates (simple 2-channel, only) to high quality AVRs. If you get a good quality AVR, I'm of the mind you will bennefit more from the simpler connections than you will with racks of amps connected to an AVR or pre/pro.

I've debated TG about the need for seperate amps using super efficient speakers like the Klipsch he owns. But, as you've noticed, he's opinionated and I'm more of the mind of "if it works for you....great, but that's not my cup of tea"! I didin't let that conversation didn't get far.

I can certainly see the need for seperate amps if you have a very large HT room and/or you're running difficult load speakers. But, looking at the engineering and build of today's top AVRs, I don't know what, if anything can be gained in a regular size room with speakers that are moderately efficient. Matter of fact, I would think the best way to use a powerful monoblock would be to drive a sub....even one with an internal amp. IF I could lay my hands on a 300+W single channel amp with high current capabilities (and one that's cheap), I'd be very tempted to add something like that. I'd also be more willing to look at those pro amps if they came as 3-channel amps vs 2-channel. I could cutdown on the complexity issue with one 3-channel amp to drive the fronts and leave the surround speaker duty for the AVR (which is all a lot of people need to do anyway).

That said, I'm male and the prospect of more power is always tempting....especially at the prices you can get those Crown amps.

Quinn...I didn't mean to suggest you need to agree with me or TG. Just relaying my experiences with him. I've disagreed with him many times. Perhaps because he and I have "gone to battle" on the same side a couple of times, he's not as combative with me. IF you stay out of the "tussle", every once in a while, TG makes some valid arguments. Whether you find them useful in your situation, is entirely up to you.

Just as an FYI, and if you're interested, several months ago I was chastised on my choice of the 59 AVi DVD player over the much heralded Denon 5900. At the time, I had said the reason I liked the 59 AVi better than the Denon 5900 was because of the Denon's macroblocking issue (as well as some other Denon issues). I was told by Kris that I was a lunatic (paraphrasing) for choosing the Elite DVD player and that there was no way the 59 AVi was the better choice, nor that that macroblocking was an issue with the Denon since HE didn't see it. He made it known that I was just a "misinformed" lowly consumer and not a proffesional tester (as he is). Again, TG and others came to my defense. Now, everyone knows the Denon issues.

It's a fickle group over there, for sure!

Sony WE610 60" LCD RPTV
Pioneer Elite 59TXi AVR
Pioneer Elite 59AVi Universal DVD player
CBM 340 Front L/R
CBM 340c Center
CBM 170s for L/R Surround
1-HTM 200 Rear Surround (6.1)
HSU VTF-3
Monster THX certified interconnects
DIY speaker cable (that's better than anyhing I can purchase elsewhere)