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View Full Version : Rythmik F8 setup advice needed by novice



coyote
09-18-2016, 10:17 AM
After reading http://www.rythmikaudio.com/download/F8_quickguide.pdf and other threads (like Recommended initial subwoofer settings (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?4432-Recommended-initial-subwoofer-settings) and Rythmik F8 (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?5906-Rythmik-F8)) I'm totally lost how to setup the Rythmik F8 I've ordered when it arrives.

Please help! (I'm sorry that asking specific questions is even beyond me.)

I'm pairing it with a "5.1" Paradigm Soundscape
https://www.paradigm.com/products-current/collection=shift/model=soundscape/
soundbar which has a fixed crossover of 80 Hz.

** In case details would be helpful **

Room is:
9.5 feet wide,
12 feet long (but my listening distance is only 6.5 feet from the soundbar)

I'm thinking the subwoofer can be about 6 to 8 feet from my listening position.

The room sucks acoustically; it's quite filled with stuff, so the subwoofer won't have much floor/wall to reflect off of.

My only priority is movies.

Oh, and I'm a rather sensitive film listener. I found that dialog was too faint when I adjusted the soundbar's volume to a level that I liked movie explosions to be. (I've mostly solved this with the soundbar's settings for treble [raised] and bass [lowered a bit]. I wonder if having the separate subwoofer might help me optimize this further.)

mikesiskav
09-18-2016, 02:52 PM
I've got 2 F8 subs and they are fantastic. They're really not much different setup wise than any other subwoofer. According to the manual for your sound bar (found here: https://www.paradigm.com/downloads/Soundscape_Owners_Manual_ONLINE.pdf) there's a subwoofer RCA output on the back of the sound bar. Once connected, you need to go into the settings for the soundbar and set subwoofer to wired. This will activate a crossover in the soundbar and re-route the bass to the F8. It didn't say what frequency this crossover is at (probably somewhere between 80-120hz).

Your sound bar should also have come with a wireless sub receiver which you can use if can't run an RCA cable.

For the F8 itself, I would set the subwoofer to ON. (It has an auto-on option as well, but I would start with always ON). Set volume to 50%, crossover at 200, LPF slope at 12dB, phase at 0, and bass extension at High. The F8 does not have a parametric EQ, so you don't need to worry about any PEQ settings. This is just to start with, you will probably need to tweak these settings a bit, until you find what works best for you.

coyote
09-18-2016, 03:09 PM
Thank you VERY much, mikesiskav!

The soundbar manual didn't confuse me, it's the subwoofer settings you so kindly suggested I start with and explained, that I desperately needed, and profoundly appreciate!!

Thank you so much!
coyote


I've got 2 F8 subs and they are fantastic. They're really not much different setup wise than any other subwoofer. According to the manual for your sound bar (found here: https://www.paradigm.com/downloads/Soundscape_Owners_Manual_ONLINE.pdf) there's a subwoofer RCA output on the back of the sound bar. Once connected, you need to go into the settings for the soundbar and set subwoofer to wired. This will activate a crossover in the soundbar and re-route the bass to the F8. It didn't say what frequency this crossover is at (probably somewhere between 80-120hz).

Your sound bar should also have come with a wireless sub receiver which you can use if can't run an RCA cable.

For the F8 itself, I would set the subwoofer to ON. (It has an auto-on option as well, but I would start with always ON). Set volume to 50%, crossover at 200, LPF slope at 12dB, phase at 0, and bass extension at High. The F8 does not have a parametric EQ, so you don't need to worry about any PEQ settings. This is just to start with, you will probably need to tweak these settings a bit, until you find what works best for you.

mikesiskav
09-18-2016, 03:47 PM
You're very welcome. Please let us know how the sub works out once you receive it.

coyote
09-24-2016, 09:15 AM
I have (1) a question and (2) a glowing report.

1.

With just my soundbar I had found that dialog was too faint (when I adjusted the soundbar's volume to a level that I liked the whole movie soundtrack to be) until I changed the soundbar's settings for treble [to the max, +6dB] and bass [to the minimum, -6dB].

With the F8, even thus max-ing the soundbar's settings isn't enough, so...

I'm guessing I want to adjust the F8's settings (simply lower the Volume setting?)?

And should I do that:

A. INSTEAD of,
or
B. IN ADDITION TO,

the soundbar setting adjustments (from 0 I noted above)?
I really don't understand the technical considerations of this question to know what 'best practice' would be.

2.

Wow, I couldn't be happier with the F8, it really sounds terrific. And it's an impressively high quality product.

I did make adjustments to somewhat improve the room's poor acoustics, but they are still poor. And while (relative to a subwoofer I auditioned in a local shop with great acoustics) I could tell that the sub's sound is impaired from my listening position (not sure what the right terminology is, it just seems a bit abscent from certain directions) from the room's acoustically dead zones, that impairment is infinitely more subtle than I could have hoped for, and absolutely fine with me.

I'm overjoyed with the F8!

natetg57
09-24-2016, 04:12 PM
I have (1) a question and (2) a glowing report.

1.

With just my soundbar I had found that dialog was too faint (when I adjusted the soundbar's volume to a level that I liked the whole movie soundtrack to be) until I changed the soundbar's settings for treble [to the max, +6dB] and bass [to the minimum, -6dB].

With the F8, even thus max-ing the soundbar's settings isn't enough, so...

I'm guessing I want to adjust the F8's settings (simply lower the Volume setting?)?

And should I do that:

A. INSTEAD of,
or
B. IN ADDITION TO,

the soundbar setting adjustments (from 0 I noted above)?
I really don't understand the technical considerations of this question to know what 'best practice' would be.

2.

Wow, I couldn't be happier with the F8, it really sounds terrific. And it's an impressively high quality product.

I did make adjustments to somewhat improve the room's poor acoustics, but they are still poor. And while (relative to a subwoofer I auditioned in a local shop with great acoustics) I could tell that the sub's sound is impaired from my listening position (not sure what the right terminology is, it just seems a bit abscent from certain directions) from the room's acoustically dead zones, that impairment is infinitely more subtle than I could have hoped for, and absolutely fine with me.

I'm overjoyed with the F8!
I would say "Instead of". I don't recommend adjusting the treble and bass. Adjusting the volume knob should help you get the proper balance. You might be able to reposition the soundbar to improve the dialog clarity. Definitely experiment with different positions for the sub.

mikesiskav
09-25-2016, 12:26 AM
It sounds like the room acoustics are causing in increase in upper bass. Leave the bass and treble settings on the sound bar where they are. Try turning the volume down a little on the back of the sub. Also try setting the crossover dial on the sub to around the 9 o'clock position.

coyote
09-25-2016, 02:04 PM
Being a novice, I of course tried it the ways both mikesiskav and natetg57 suggested.

With the soundbar settings for Treble/Bass as I've been using them, I'm happiest with the F8's Volume setting 3 ticks left of 50%.

With the soundbar settings for Treble/Bass reset to zero, I'm happiest with the F8's Volume setting 6 ticks left of 50%.

I'm not sure which I like more, unfortunately. My initial guess is that I like it more the first way (with the soundbar settings for Treble/Bass as I've been using them, and the F8's Volume setting 3 ticks left of 50%.)

I tried adjusting the crossover dial to 9 o'clock. I'm not certain how it changed what I heard, but I was happy (and my guess is perhaps even happier) with it at the default of max. I sorta felt like I was missing something with it at 9 o'clock.

The soundbar and F8 positions are already as good as I can make them.

mikesiskav
09-25-2016, 05:48 PM
Sounds like you got it dialed in pretty good. You're exactly right about the crossover setting. It's basically an adjustable filter that let's you control how much upper bass is fed to the subwoofer. The lower in frequency it's set to, the less upper bass is allowed to flow thru to the subwoofer. You can also set it anywhere between min and max. Try it at 12 o'clock and see how that sounds.

coyote
09-26-2016, 06:22 AM
Sounds like you got it dialed in pretty good.
I am very happy indeed with it this way, thank you very much Mike!

I would love to have the F8's Volume on a remote control
(it's optimal setting for my taste depends somewhat upon the movie I'm watching)
but am I correct in assuming from the lack of remote port that one can't directly adjust the F8 with a remote?


You're exactly right about the crossover setting. It's basically an adjustable filter that let's you control how much upper bass is fed to the subwoofer. The lower in frequency it's set to, the less upper bass is allowed to flow thru to the subwoofer.

I'm afraid this will show my lack of understanding, but please tell me if I understand this correctly:

Since my soundbar has a fixed crossover of 80 Hz, would setting the F8's crossover >= 80 Hz (perhaps approximately 10 o'clock) do absolutely nothing?


You can also set it anywhere between min and max. Try it at 12 o'clock and see how that sounds.

RythmikAudio
09-26-2016, 07:01 AM
^^
It is not clear from the manual if the SUB out from the soundbar is already filtered at 80hz. If it is filtered at 80hz, then the LPF setting should be 12db/oct and then set the crossover knob to max. However, if the SUB out is not filtered, then you need to set the knob to around 80hz or slightly lower and LPF switch to 24db/oct.

As for the soundbar being too weak, you need to set the volume control knob on F8 from what you have now to 6 ticks to 8 ticks lower. This will bring up the relative gain of all other channels over subwoofer. My personal preference is center channel should be 2-3db higher because the location of center channel is dead center and that seems to make the perceive loudness to be lower than other channels.

coyote
09-26-2016, 09:02 AM
^^
It is not clear from the manual if the SUB out from the soundbar is already filtered at 80hz. If it is filtered at 80hz, then the LPF setting should be 12db/oct and then set the crossover knob to max. However, if the SUB out is not filtered, then you need to set the knob to around 80hz or slightly lower and LPF switch to 24db/oct.

Thank you very much for your reply, RythmikAudio!

I just phoned the soundbar manufacturer's TechSupport, and asked if it's SUB out is filtered above 80Hz.

They weren't sure precisely what I meant but explained that all that gets sent to the sub is what's below 80Hz. Which I'm thinking means a Yes to the question. (In which case it sounds like I've already got the F8's Crossover and LPF settings as you recommend.)


As for the soundbar being too weak, you need to set the volume control knob on F8 from what you have now to 6 ticks to 8 ticks lower.

Since yesterday I arrived at the F8 Volume setting I have now (3 ticks left of 50%) by finding what 'sounds right', I don't understand why I would want it to be "6 ticks to 8 ticks lower" that that (than what sounds right). I must be missing something.


This will bring up the relative gain of all other channels over subwoofer. My personal preference is center channel should be 2-3db higher because the location of center channel is dead center and that seems to make the perceive loudness to be lower than other channels.

RythmikAudio
09-26-2016, 06:39 PM
Since yesterday I arrived at the F8 Volume setting I have now (3 ticks left of 50%) by finding what 'sounds right', I don't understand why I would want it to be "6 ticks to 8 ticks lower" that that (than what sounds right). I must be missing something.

The ideal arrangement is to have front/center to be at close to 0db (not +6db or -6db) as this will allow you to adjust to the max amount. That is why I suggest 6 ticks as that you bring your front/center back to 0db.

coyote
09-27-2016, 06:33 AM
The ideal arrangement is to have front/center to be at close to 0db (not +6db or -6db) as this will allow you to adjust to the max amount. That is why I suggest 6 ticks as that you bring your front/center back to 0db.
Ah, now I see. I'll try that again.

Oh, and I want to say that I deeply appreciated when reading the responses by both Mike, and RythmikAudio, that they had actually read the manual of my soundbar. That's really impressive!

Thank goodness for this forum. I would have been totally lost without it. Which reminds me: Novices like me would be greatly helped if they got some setup guidance documentation at their level of understanding on rythmikaudio.com (http://rythmikaudio.com)
I don't doubt that a more knowledgeable user would have found http://www.rythmikaudio.com/download/F8_quickguide.pdf sufficient.