Ordered Custom Rythmik/Salk Sub

[Chops]

I ordered a custom Rythmik/Salk F15HP Satin Dark Cheery with 3/4 MDF & 3/4 bamboo today. As I receive updates on the progress I'll let you all know how it is going.

Chops

[MusicHead]

Congratulations! Beauty and brawn... What a combination.

[Chops]

The cabinet is finished and waiting for the 3rd sealer coat.

[sludgeogre]

Wow, quite the saga. Hope you get to hear it soon. Please post pictures when you have it set up!

[Chops]

Finally some good news. My custom rythmik/salk is being shipped next week.
Now I'll need a few strong backs as it weighs about 160 pounds

Chops

[billy p]

Wow...6 months....why the extended wait. What lead time was given by JS. I explored going this route prior to buying my PSA sub a few yrs back.

Sure hope my new Funk arrives on time as expected...I'd love to see some pictures of the new sub...what finish did you chose.

[Chops]

I had to wait for the order for the bamboo to come in.

Also bamboo is made up of strips of bamboo which expand and contract with changes in temperature and humidity. But the glue seams between the strips do not. So what was once sanded flat becomes less flat with the seams between the bamboo strips showing through the finish.

So in order to insure that this has a minimal effect on the final finish, Salk let the sealer cure longer between coats. Normally, sealer continues to cure for about 30 days. This is normally not anything to be concerned about. But with the way bamboo moves, the more the sealer cures, the less is will tend to shrink over time and this helps keep the natural movement of the bamboo less noticeable.

Chops

[billy p]

Thanks for the explanation. I considered doing bamboo and asking Ascend for a stain sample to best match my speakers but in the end....I opted to upgrade for real wood inlays with round-over edging in Santos Rosewood with Red stain...this was not likely feasible with a bamboo constructed cabinet.

Fwiw...I was enamored with Mahogany Crotch veneer but Nate gave me an excellent deal on the Santos which is also very nice... here is the remnant with driver and amp cut out....it will look real sharp once complete....I cant wait.

Here is the actual veneer of mine>
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k146/parsal106/santosrosewood%201_zpsvbtlwv0d.jpg (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/parsal106/media/santosrosewood%201_zpsvbtlwv0d.jpg.html)



Enjoy your new sub and post pics...:)

[Chops]

Sub arrives tomorrow. It has 3/4 MDF and 3/4 Bamboo laminated together. Different types of wood have
different resonance frequencies so laminating these together reduces the resonance which is good. I could have had 1 1/2 bamboo walls. however Jim Salk convinced me this was the best approach.

The sub is also stained satin dark cherry to match my raal ribbon towers.

The sub weighs 160 pounds so perhaps a good night's sleep is in order.

[billy p]

Nice would love to see some pictures once it arrives. My days of moving large heavy subs like my xs30 se are things of the past. The new sub uses Neo Magnets help reduce weight and Baltic Birch plywood further lessen the weight...I elected to go with a Red stain which should look something like this...sub should weight ~85-90lbs range not to shabby for an 18" driver.

1344

[Chops]

To All,

I need some advice on configuring my new custom bamboo Salk/Rythmik F15HP to my DTR-/5.4
Integra AV receiver.

I’ll send pictures of it with the bamboo stained in satin dark cherry. Even at 160 pounds is it a beauty.

I have Ascend Acoustics Towers and Horizon(w/Raal). I have tried to find suggestions in the forums, however it must be in-bedded in the comment text as I have not found a thread on configuring a F15HP with ribbon towers..

I can set my towers to large with no crossover on the AVR and do the cross over on the sub or set my towers to small with 3 crossovers on the AVR. The three crossover options when the speakers are set to small are 60, 80, and 100.

I currently have the sub set at the defaults per the quick guide that came with the sub. (The PEQ is set to
off, crossover is at max., bass extension filter at 20hz/medium damping and the low pass slope setting is AVR/12. The rumble filter and limiter switches are off. The delay/phase is 0 and the volume is at 50%.)

I have the sub connected and working however it needs to be adjusted. I have tried the small
option with the crossover at 60 for music. The towers sound great however the sub cutoff at 60 looses the nice full sound stage at the bottom of the towers end even though I am picking it up with the sub, plus more great bottom range.

The option on the AVR for speaker set to large no crossover for music gives me the nice full sound stage
and I’m still picking up the nice new extended bottom from the sub, however it is not as noticeable with the towers providing their nice bass.

I have done a small test with the speakers set to small as above listening to a DVD in surround sound 5.1
and the new sub was quite impressive even with the volume turned down until I get it broken in.


Thanks in advance for all the help I am sure I’ll will receive.

Chops

[mikesiskav]

Have you tried adjusting the phase setting on the subwoofer? You may be getting some cancelation between the sub and the towers.

[billy p]

My plan will be to implement a higher xover to help offset localization issues for music... Anthem allows for separate eq setting. I'd think the sub should be equal to or better the bass response of the towers...as described to me even xover in the 120-200 Hz range are acceptable with the TSAD drivers.

[RythmikAudio]

To All,

I currently have the sub set at the defaults per the quick guide that came with the sub. (The PEQ is set to
off, crossover is at max., bass extension filter at 20hz/medium damping and the low pass slope setting is AVR/12. The rumble filter and limiter switches are off. The delay/phase is 0 and the volume is at 50%.)

I have the sub connected and working however it needs to be adjusted. I have tried the small
option with the crossover at 60 for music. The towers sound great however the sub cutoff at 60 looses the nice full sound stage at the bottom of the towers end even though I am picking it up with the sub, plus more great bottom range.


This is because the phase between sub and tower may not have been perfectly aligned. With AVR, adjusting relative distance in the menu between front speakers and sub is same as adjusting the phase. When you set to 60hz, it is already very close to the natural roll-off frequency of tower. The result is towers have more phase shift than when you use 80hz crossover. So the adjustment here is to reduce the phase of the sub. This is something that cannot be done with phase/delay adjustment knob (because the knob can only increase the phase), but can be easily done with AVR by setting the subwoofer distance in the menu "further away" from its physical distance. This will trick AVR sending signal earlier to the sub and hence reduces the phase of the sub. Try add 2ft at a time. You should need no more than 6ft to find the best setting.


The option on the AVR for speaker set to large no crossover for music gives me the nice full sound stage
and I’m still picking up the nice new extended bottom from the sub, however it is not as noticeable with the towers providing their nice bass.


In this case, I am not sure what signal the AVR sends to the sub. Is it full range, or is it filtered? Let us assume the sub out from AV processor is full range. In this case, we need to adjust the crossover knob on sub plate amp to something like 50hz or 60hz (where tower starts to roll off). You need to set the LPF to 50hz/24. This should give you very good phase alignment between the sub and the towers without any adjustment. However, this is based on the assumption of sub distance is very similar to tower distance. If needed (in the case of tweaking or experimenting), you can add phase/delay via the knob. You can try 1 o'clock at a time and find the best results. Adding delay/phase via the knob is like you move the sub physically further. In the case you need negative phase/delay adjustment, which cannot be done via knob, then you need to really move the sub closer to get that phase alignment.

So in short, phase alignment is the key. There is not a single setting that can be used for both cases of "large" and "small" front speakers. The reason we have such a complex control arrangement is because it has all the adjustments you ever need with AVR or without AVR. The case that I explain when you set towers to large is same as those who still use 2-channel setup without AVR.

[Chops]

Thanks to all for your help..........

I have resolved my issue by setting the sub distance greater than the speakers

I am going to try changing the cross over to 80hz with speakers set to small and then set the speakers to large with the sub doing the cross over.

Currently I am off the coast of Maine cruising and dreaming about coming back home, relaxing while listening to my new sub.

Chops

[Chops]

Can anyone explain the bass extension filter and what the damping does to the sub sound a 14, 20 and 28 hz?

Thanks again
Chops

[MusicHead]

From Rythmik FAQ:

Do I really need a flat response down to 14 Hz for music?

The simple answer is yes. The more accurate, more complicated answer is that it depends on the music you are listening to. On dance mixes and music with extremely high bass contents, one does not need 14 Hz extension because of what is called the "masking effect". The masking effect occurs when a high amplitude signal is present simultaneously with other smaller amplitude signals. The perceived loudness of the smaller amplitude signal is drastically reduced. In addition, human ear's sensitivity decreases in the lower frequencies. Therefore for this type of music, one may even want to set the extension setting higher with lower damping factor setting (in our A350/A370 amps). That will make the bass sound clean (by removing ambient information) and punchy. It essentially allocates more amplifier power to the signal that we hear and care about most. On the other hand, when no such signals are present (for example, in jazz, solo and other types of music) and masking effect is not strong, one can clearly hear the difference that a 14 Hz extension makes (vs say 28 Hz extension). It is not a difference that will have you jumping out of your seat say "there's the bass". Rather it is an improvement in two areas: ambience and dynamics.

Ambience: good recordings normally capture a lot of ambience information which is predominantly low frequency signals. It is generally agreed that the lower the sub plays, the deeper, taller, and wider the sound stage becomes (or one may say open and spacious).

Dynamics: during musical transitions, a lot of the non-harmonic content is produced. Most of this content is in the very low frequency band, which will be filtered out if the bass extension is not low enough.

[Chops]

MusicHead,

Thanks for the explanation....

I now have a hum in the subwoofer starting to be noticeable at about 1/2 volume. The receiver is off
If I remove the 75ft shielded coaxial RCA cable it goes away. I have moved my sub cable so that it is not near any of my speaker wires and I still get the hum. I have also tried plugging the sub into the same outlet as my receiver and I still get the hum.

My house is over 150 years old so it does not have grounds even though the outlets except plugs with a ground.

I checked the internet for the suggestions that I tried above. One suggestion that I have not done is try a
sub isolation filter that blue jeans cable sells for $50.00. The RCA is plugged into one end and another RCA on the other end that goes into the sub.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Chops

[sludgeogre]

I now have a hum in the subwoofer starting to be noticeable at about 1/2 volume. The receiver is off. If I remove the 75ft shielded coaxial RCA cable it goes away.

RCA runs over 40 ft are very susceptible to picking up noise, especially if the cable is in a big loop around the room like it sounds yours is. Shielding can only do so much to attenuate that. You should consider either a wireless transmitter or going with a balanced run if you have a balanced output, or shorten the cable run as much as you can. I would test my theory by connecting the sub close to your receiver with a 10 foot cable or something shorter and see if there is hum. If there isn't, then the problem is your long cable run. If you still get hum, there is an electrical issue, possibly a ground loop.

One other thing you can try is running an extension cable to the sub from the same outlet that feeds your speakers, that will tell you if there is some grounding issues.

[N Boros]

MusicHead,

Thanks for the explanation....

I now have a hum in the subwoofer starting to be noticeable at about 1/2 volume. The receiver is off
If I remove the 75ft shielded coaxial RCA cable it goes away. I have moved my sub cable so that it is not near any of my speaker wires and I still get the hum. I have also tried plugging the sub into the same outlet as my receiver and I still get the hum.

My house is over 150 years old so it does not have grounds even though the outlets except plugs with a ground.

I checked the internet for the suggestions that I tried above. One suggestion that I have not done is try a
sub isolation filter that blue jeans cable sells for $50.00. The RCA is plugged into one end and another RCA on the other end that goes into the sub.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Chops

I have never had a ground loop hum in my system, so I don't have firsthand experience with it. But, this sounds like it lines up with what others have said, when they have had a ground loop hum. Here is a troubleshooting link that might help.

http://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-connection/ground-loops-eliminating-system-hum-and-buzz

[Chops]

Once again thanks to all

I ran an extension cord into my kitchen and plugged it into one of the GFI electric outlets(Ground Fault Interrupt). The humming noise in the sub disappeared.

I will have to get an electrician to come to my house and put one in where the regular outlet is that I am plugging the sub into is.

Chops

[sludgeogre]

That is great news, Chops, glad you found a solution, and I'm also glad that your RCA cable is shielded well enough to make that long run possible for you.

[Chops]

I have contacted Rythmik Subs and using a GFI(Ground Fault Interrupt) is the same as using a three way to a two plug adapter.

The final solution was buying a 3 way to 2 way adapter and a power strip with a power surge protection.

Tonight I am gonna have a few Shed Ales(Brown) and listen to some Freddy Cole, Nate Cole's bother and some Diana Krall, a little Yo Yo Ma and if I have enough time the Christian McBride Big Band.

That last sentence shows I spent much to much time sleeping during English class.

I will try to post pictures of the sub in the next few weeks

Chops


Chops

[Chops]

Curtis I read your comments on using the LFE input instead of the Line input.
Oh my god what a difference this has made. The sub sounds so.o.o.. much better.

My intregar AVR is quite old and has an option for small & large speakers which I have set to small with the crossover at 60. I have left the low pass slope setting to AVR/12.

I never noticed that were times when the sub and receiver were fighting each other at
certain frequencies. Now all I hear is nice clean and clear sub

I also had to turn down the sub volume level.

I made the change last night, Saturday at around 8:30pm and started listening to my favorite classical, jazz and rock music. It was like the first time I heard my RAAL towers OGM...... I did not realize what time is was until the Sun came up Sunday morning.

Chops

[diesel79]

Can you post up some pics? I’d love to see the sub!

[N Boros]

The 15" version was reviewed several years ago:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/speaker-subwoofer-reviews/74914-salk-rythmik-15-dual-15-passive-radiators-subwoofer-review.html

Though Chops may have a nicer finish, since Salk really can do very nice work.

[Chops]

My custom Rythmik/Salk is the HP15 seal version so it is not the version that was reviewed.
It has 3/4 MDF and 3/4 Bamboo laminated together to reduce resonance as different types of wood have different resonance frequencies. Jim recommended this.

Jim will allow you do change the dimensions as long as the volume does not change.

I sent him Ascend's HD pictures of satin dark cherry towers and the sub matches quite closely.

It was a great learning experience working with him & I can say enough about how personal he was

It weighs something like 200 pounds & thank god the delivery man help me get it in my house.

Once I got it tune in & my wife heard nice clean, clear bass she quickly forgot about how big it is.

Chops