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curtis
09-15-2004, 04:47 AM
Eddie,

Does your Yamaha have the ability to do bass management on the 5.1 analog inputs?

-curtis

Ben_Wood
09-15-2004, 07:18 AM
Eddie, good luck dealing with Ivan! We are supposed to get hit the hardest here in Prattville around noon tomorrow according to the last reports. My advice on set up is to make sure you go deep enough into the menus to get the right settings selected. On my Denon DVD-2200 player stereo (non M/C), digital (where it needs to be analog), and regular playback (instead of Hi-Rez SACD and DVD-A) are the default settings. Just make certain that the player is "looking" for the proper type of source and of course ensure that your analog inputs are being used.

Eddie Horton
09-15-2004, 08:16 AM
Thanks, Ben. Good luck with Ivan. Curtis, it doesn't do BM for the analog inputs, but if I really dig the high rez music, I'll buy an Outlaw ICBM. That'll still be cheaper than a new Denon.....they're a little over my budget right now.

curtis
09-15-2004, 08:35 AM
I am wondering if the 578 has improved bass management over the 563.

All of you guys, good luck with this hurricane business!

-curtis

metalaaron
09-15-2004, 09:16 AM
hope everything turns out OK for those who are greatly affected by Ivan.

Ben_Wood
09-15-2004, 11:16 AM
Thanks Metalaaron, hopefully by the time Ivan gets up around Chattanooga it will be mostly just rain.

Eddie Horton
09-15-2004, 11:16 PM
8:15 A.M. Thursday morning. Still have power, but it's getting ugly around B'ham. Slightly O.T., but oh well.

smokey
09-16-2004, 03:44 AM
Hang in there and stay dry, guys. Our thoughts are with you.

As to O.T., that's one of the benefits of being a relatively low-traffic forum. Nothing is really O.T! ;)

-Smokey.

Thanks, the Management.

Eddie Horton
09-16-2004, 11:39 AM
8:37 Thursday night. Power was off from about 10:30 to just a bit ago. Everyone came through O.K. Thanks for the concern and thoughts, guys!!! Now, maybe I can get that new Pioneer fired up before the weekend is over. Still have some clean up to do first.

Eddie Horton
09-17-2004, 04:38 AM
In addition to Ivan, I had my tonsils removed at age 31 on Monday (ouch), so I've been off all week. Got the Pioneer 578 hooked up this morning, went out and bought DSOTM and fired it up. Wow!!! This album was made for multi-channel. I'll be buying more discs soon. Still have to play around with speaker settings because it doesn't say what the crossover point is for SACD or DVD-A, only gives a choice of "large" or "small" for speaker sizes. I think my sub could stand to be turned up a notch or two for multi-channel, but I don't want to have to change sub setting everytime I switch between music and movies. Now I need a new A/V rack just like the other one I have on the left side of the T.V. It is exactly the same height as the T.V. and matches perfectly, but only has 4 shelves that are now occupied by receiver, PS2, Zenith DVD player, and my cable box. Just got the Pioneer sitting on top of the Zenith for now, but will soon be adding 3 Outlaw Monoblocks, an ICBM, and a BFD, so I'll be out of space very soon. This is getting expensive, but it sure is fun.

bikeman
09-17-2004, 05:55 AM
Eddie,
If you run out of room, I'd be glad to "store" some of that gear for ya. No charge. [:D] [:D] [:D]
I believe it would be unusual to have a sub running "hotter" for music than for movies. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

David

Eddie Horton
09-17-2004, 09:59 PM
It seems that way, David. I haven't got out the SPL meter yet, so my ears could be telling me wrong, but it seems like the sub isn't right for music when left at my calibrated HT setting. Maybe it's the BM of the player, but I'll check.

Lou-the-dog
09-17-2004, 10:59 PM
Eddie,when you get those Outlaw monoblocks please post your thoughts.

Randy

Eddie Horton
09-17-2004, 11:16 PM
Will do, Randy. It'll take me a couple of months, though. Got a vacation coming up and various other things that kill my HT budget. :D

curtis
09-28-2004, 03:56 AM
Eddie...any more updates? Did you get an SPL meter yet?

-curtis

Eddie Horton
09-28-2004, 08:41 AM
Yes, Curtis. I've had one, just hadn't tested my theory on the 578's bass output yet. It's playing about 15dB too low, which is disappointing. The ICBM won't make up for that much. I've also seen posts on other forums where other owners of this player have said the same thing. I'll keep it for now and hopefully come up with a solution. I just don't want to have to pour too much money into this part of my HT. The Outlaw Monoblocks are on the way, BTW. Also got a new matching stand. The stand and amps were a trade for some pink sapphire earrings for my honey. Now you all know my secret for getting new gear, and you can also take the cost of my HT and double it!!!

curtis
09-28-2004, 09:06 AM
OK...I read that wrong at first. Thought you meant you traded the sapphire earrings for the amps and stands. Was beginning to wonder why you are still alive. [:D]

-curtis

Eddie Horton
09-28-2004, 09:25 AM
Yeah........I didn't type that quite right. BTW, Curtis.....you got any thoughts on how I could correct that -15dB problem I'm having with my 578?

curtis
09-28-2004, 09:45 AM
is there a level adjustment in the player...I know my 563 has it. How are the speakers setup in the 578?

-curtis

Eddie Horton
09-28-2004, 10:41 AM
The 578 doesn't have the level adjustments that the 563 has. The speaker settings, to my knowledge...the manual is a little vague, don't change the .1 channel. They just control bass re-direction, so it doesn't matter whether you set them for small or large.

curtis
09-28-2004, 10:56 AM
Are you sure it doesn't have level adjustments? That would be strange to omit that.

On the 563 there is a place to set the speaker level to "fix" or "variable". When set to variable, you can change the levels.

-curtis

Eddie Horton
09-28-2004, 11:01 AM
It definately does not have them. I also found out that for SACD, crossover is set at 80Hz and cannot be changed. For DVD-A, if you set the speakers to "large", the crossover is 80Hz, and if you set them to "small", crossover is 120Hz. Still doesn't explain the drastic lack of the .1 channel.

curtis
09-28-2004, 11:03 AM
On the 563 there is a place to set the speaker level to "fix" or "variable". When set to variable, you can change the levels.

Wow....that is interesting...you can not shut off bass management?

-curtis

Mag_Neato
09-28-2004, 11:12 PM
That does sound peculiar indeed! If you set the speakers to all large it should send full range signals to your speakers without any sort of bass management. You could then put an ICBM or similar device in the chain between DVD player and receiver to get bass management. I believe the ICBM has a gain control to compensate for a low bass levels. I have my 563 set to fixed, as Curtis said, not variable, so all channels from the 563 will be at the same output level. Have you gone through the manual completely? I had to read mine over to find the info....the menus can be confusing at first.

Oh yeah! Curtis...I am wondering what the country codes are for. The manual has a big list of them for the 563, and you can change this setting via the menu. Is this to change regions to play DVD's that are, say, region 2,3,4 etc.?
Ed

Eddie Horton
09-29-2004, 06:11 AM
I am absolutely positive about the channel levels and read an e-mail sent to a fellow enthusiast from Pioneer cust. service that stated the crossover frequencies in the 578. This model is different from the 563 in that respect. Also, the bass is exactly 15dB low, and an ICBM will only give 9dB boost. Setting the speakers to large on this player does not send full range signals to the speakers. I don't mind this, because it sets the crossover at 80Hz which works great for me. I do mind the LFE being so low.

Mag_Neato
09-29-2004, 06:27 AM
WOW! I can't believe it won't let you run speakers "large" as true full range, without bass management! What if you wanted to run it through a pre-amp/receiver which has analog bass management capability? SOL, huh?

I digress....sounds like Pioneer made some radical changes from the 563a. Is the sub level deficit taken with a Rad-Shack SPL? If so, have you corrected for the meter's low freq rolloff to get a "true" reading?

Ed

Eddie Horton
09-29-2004, 07:29 AM
Didn't use correction charts, cause I don't know what Hz I'm listening to on the music discs I have. The heartbeats on DSOTM seem quite deep, but as for what Hz they are......don't have a clue. I also can't believe that "large" doesn't send full range signals, but I saw the e-mail from Pioneer. I may get a Chesky setup disk and do some further testing, but for 149 bucks, what can you ask for? I like hi-rez recordings, but until more new releases from people I've actually heard of and want to listen to come out, I don't think I'll put more money into that part of my setup. Ordering an ICBM would get me close, but at $200 for a b-stock unit, $149 for the player, and $160 for my Zenith DVB-318, I could have bought a refurb Denon 2900. Oh, well.

curtis
09-29-2004, 08:12 AM
Was it an "official" email bulletin from Pioneer, or an email from a Pioneer tech?

Is the manual online anywhere?

edit: I just went to Pioneer's site, the 578 is not even listed yet.

-curtis

Eddie Horton
09-29-2004, 08:15 AM
Update: After doing some more digging, and by blasting some music through my 578 for the first time.....before I'd been listening at fairly low levels....it appears that the e-mail from Pio customer service is wrong. When set to "large", the speakers get a full range signal. When set to "small", they get crossed over at 80Hz for DVD-A and SACD. This is good news, as now an ICBM would get me close to perfect. The LFE is indeed exactly 15dB down, but like I said, the ICBM would get close enough for me. Wow, I feel better. If only my Yamaha HTR-5790 had separate adjustments for the multi-channel inputs, I'd be set without the ICBM.

curtis
09-29-2004, 09:16 AM
Eddie, what are you using to test the channel levels?

-curtis

Eddie Horton
09-29-2004, 09:26 AM
Rat Shack SPL meter and some time plugging and unplugging speakers while playing music.

curtis
09-29-2004, 09:36 AM
ahhhh...OK....so not test tones from a DVD-A or SACD disc?

I don't think it is the player playing -15dB LFE, I think it is the lack of bass management. Have you compared the bass when speakers are set to small compared to large?

-curtis

Eddie Horton
09-29-2004, 10:00 AM
Yes, it's the same. I've also seen on other forums where people have said the same thing about the bass being -15.

curtis
09-29-2004, 10:32 AM
OK.

You might want to think about doing what Quinn did....got a 563a from eBay for $50.

-curtis

Mag_Neato
09-30-2004, 04:38 AM
Curtis,

ya missed my question earlier in this thread, so I'll ask it again[:D]

Do you know what the country codes are for regarding the 563a? The manual has a long list of them and allows you to change the setting...is this to allow playing of different region DVDs?

Thanks!

Ed

curtis
09-30-2004, 05:24 AM
Hmmmm.....I don't know. That would be a GREAT feature though.

-curtis

Quinn
09-30-2004, 06:37 AM
I'm looking at the Pioneer 563a manual page 74 and it says, "Your DVD player also has a region mark, which you can find on the rear panel."

Unless you bought a region free DVD player I'm betting it is region 1.

Eddie Horton
09-30-2004, 06:49 AM
Comp USA still had a 563 when I was in there last week. Of course, they wanted more than $50 for it. I'm just gonna wait and see what happens with releases and maybe add an ICBM some day.

Mag_Neato
09-30-2004, 06:51 AM
Then what the heck do the country codes change? The language on the menus? Can't be, there is a language option in the setup menu. The manual is very vague concerning it's function. I don't want to change something I cannot change back!

Ed

curtis
09-30-2004, 07:50 AM
Take one for the team and try it. [:D]

-curtis

Dave Nelms
09-30-2004, 09:06 AM
Mag-

I will try and answer your question (if I understand it correctly. The country code would be the same as the region code. According to the MPAA, none of thier member companies produce "all" or "0" region DVDs. And these member companies produce 99% of the legitimate DVD's in circulation. Also, the region coding only protects the author of the DVD to allow it to be played only in a particular 'region'. This would allow the producer to sell DVDs in the US while the movie is still in a first run theater overseas. I was told that no matter the region the product quality should remain the same.

Dave Nelms

azanon
10-04-2004, 05:48 AM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">ahhhh...OK....so not test tones from a DVD-A or SACD disc?

I don't think it is the player playing -15dB LFE, I think it is the lack of bass management. Have you compared the bass when speakers are set to small compared to large?

-curtis<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

This is the deja vu thread.

To repeat, the 578a passes the .1 channel to the sub regardless of the setting. If you dont have a sub, you lose this channel. For SACD's, the crossover for the bass on the 5.x channel on this unit is hardwired at 80hz. For DVD-A's bass on the 5.x channel, its 120hz with a "small" setting and 80hz for the "large" setting.

azanon
10-04-2004, 05:58 AM
I do, however, agree with the discussions going on about its general bass output just not being adequate (ie: +15 db too low, etc.). Some are saying its just a generic problem with dvd-a's/sacds, and other players have a +15db bass boost to compensate. The frequencies are definitely there, just the output volume level could stand to be a little higher compared to other sounds formats.

Eddie Horton
10-04-2004, 07:03 AM
Thanks for the info, Azanon. Just so I understand correctly, you are saying that there is no way to send a full range signal to the 5 main speakers with either SACD or DVD-A?

- EVH III