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fzgtics
12-13-2010, 05:54 AM
I just received and hooked up my 170 mains and 340 center this past Friday and I am ecstatic. I've been watching several bluray movies and it sounds good. In fact we were watching I am Legend and there is a scene in the beginning where Will Smith is stalking a deer and a lion leaps from the left and gets the deer. The sound of the lion roaring from the left main freaked my dogs out. They both jumped up and started barking. LOL Later we watched Pineapple Express on DTS and the sounds and cheap dreamweaver (http://www.ellamour.com) voices were like everything was in a cave. I think it was the dts because when I switched it to multichannel HD MA it sounded much better. I think I read that these speakers will sound even better after breaking in a little bit, correct? This may have been brought up before but has Ascend thought about selling baseball caps or T-shirts with the Ascend logo? I'd buy one.

hearing specialist
03-04-2011, 10:44 AM
Sounds like your really enjoying your new toys, and speaking from my own personal experience...the more mine break-in and my system is re-calibrated, the better the sound. I'm amazed at how drivers sound pre-breakin vs. post. They get so much better in time. I would encourage you also consider re-calibrating your system periodically to maximize the sound of the broke in drivers.

Happy listening:D

curtis
03-04-2011, 12:41 PM
break-in is a highly debated subject...

hearing specialist
03-04-2011, 12:59 PM
Just sharing my professional and personal experience as mentioned above.

Professional Qualifying statement: When working for a Auditory medical device/Hearing DSP Hearing aid manufacturer, we had to prove to the FDA that (A)the loudspeakers/transducers used to measure Real-Ear measurements via Kemar did not vary our test results vs. (B)proving that the measurements could vary our Puretone measurements with same loudspeaker enclosure. With the variables in loudspeaker manufacturers and the different tollerances in how they are engineered, we looked for drivers that were burned in at their factory and measured tollerances were well documented for us to proceed with the FDA approval process.

I can run Puretone signals at mid and lower frequencies in a ANSI calibrated sound booth and receive different tonal qualities over time with that driver. Not so much amplitude, but quality of the sound. I know that most burn in using a "Broadband" signal vs. a guy like me will use Puretones to measure each frequency without affecting any others. Just my opinion here

curtis
03-04-2011, 01:03 PM
The debate isn't whether there is break-in or not.

The debate is on how much time it takes and if it is audible...even if it is measurable.

hearing specialist
03-04-2011, 01:15 PM
Heh, thanks for responding and mucho thanks for founding this forum!!!

I fully 100% agree. We had to factor all that, ..."with said butyl surrounds how much audio degradation will occur with a continued signal"...blah, blah...

Dang government ;)

I just know that everytime I re-calibrate after say 40hrs of use and all the measurement variables are reduced to guage the difference my sound is always better.

curtis
03-04-2011, 01:34 PM
BTW...I am in the camp of "who cares?"...just listen and enjoy.



I just know that everytime I re-calibrate after say 40hrs of use and all the measurement variables are reduced to guage the difference my sound is always better.
When you re-calibrate, do you know how and how much the settings have changed?

Being a hearing specialist, you certainly know about psycho acoustics, right? ;)

hearing specialist
03-04-2011, 02:02 PM
Yes sir, hopefully just the acoustics side of that 2 part.

My receiver doesn't grant me that option even though most in the 2K range does. My biggest notable differences other than increased quality of sound is that as my drivers break in they need less signal to achieve same reference output, as reflected in my "Levels" section within my receiver. Thanks for talkin with me!

curtis
03-04-2011, 02:14 PM
Yes sir, hopefully just the acoustics side of that 2 part.

My receiver doesn't grant me that option even though most in the 2K range does. My biggest notable differences other than increased quality of sound is that as my drivers break in they need less signal to achieve same reference output, as reflected in my "Levels" section within my receiver. Thanks for talkin with me!
Interesting!

Have you recorded those changes over time? What is the difference between the 40 hour intervals?

What speakers do you have, and how long have you had them?

hearing specialist
03-04-2011, 02:34 PM
Because I'm in constant improving stage, my enclosures and matching up drivers in hopes of molding the sound physically (enclosure mods like adding 50lbs of non drying modeling clay to internal walls for each tower/main) before letting my receiver shape it digitally, my greatest change in signal came around this past holiday season when I couldn't mess with my stuff due to family in town. I went from 1st calibration session in which it set the level for each tower at 75%. Now, this is with the older titanium tweets and Morel drivers and that sensitivity was suppose to be 91db at initial build. I thought hmmm, i've never had my receiver ever set anything up that strong and the output was not blow you out of the water crazy loud either. After the first 40hrs and a 2nd calibration, the signal dropped to about 45% from 75% and it was night and day, huge difference. Beit I never ran pink noise, white noise or anything crazy through them and the titanium tweets were supposedly already broke in and matched. Output was louder and of course the definition was huge.

Reference: Yamaha RX-V465
System: 4.2 (Tang Band and Morel Drivers)
Mains: Tower TWW (I will be a future Ascend tower buyer)
Rears: Tower MTM (what he said ^)
Subs: Stereo 10" subs (I will be a future owner of Rythmic products)
Mains: 60" apart and 10.5' to my ear canals sitting at reference listening position

soundseeker
03-04-2011, 02:41 PM
In my case the break-in was quite audible. For my Sierra center I hooked it up and started listening to U2 360 Blu-ray in DTS-HD. Something wasn't quite right. It sounded different, not the way I had expected it to, somewhat flat. I rechecked all the settings (they were correct) and sat and listened to about half the concert (thru Elevation) before I was interrupted. I came back the following afternoon to see if I could figure out what was going on. I decided to listen to the entire concert, write down my thoughts, and then start tweaking. The second time around while playing the "Magnificent" track I heard the change in sound about 20 seconds before the end of the track. All of a sudden the sound bacame much fuller, had much more depth. It was the provberbial "blanket lifted from the speakers". I let the song finish while trying to figure out if I accidentally hit something on the remote. Maybe I inadvertanty changed some setting. No. I went back to the beginning and the full sound came through from the start. No settings were changed, my positioning was the same. I could only attribute it to a break-in of the woofer. Its been audio bliss ever since.

hearing specialist
03-04-2011, 02:50 PM
Great for you! I'm that guy that is a cheerleader of the calibration programs because of what you just experienced. It makes a difference to the ear! Enjoy your many hours of listening. Do you have any reference listening discs like Cheskys Ultimate Demo disc? This will really let your Ascend products shine!!

reference:http://www.chesky.com/core/details.cfm?productcode=UD095&productcategoryid=1

soundseeker
03-04-2011, 03:10 PM
^^ Thank you for the suggestion. I don't have any of the reference discs mentioned in your link. However, there is a thread in this forum and another on AVF that mentions excellent source material for listening. My 2-channel faves include The Best of Diana Krall, Long Road out of Eden by the Eagles, and a number of tracks on Sleep Through The Static by Jack Johnson.

edit: Here is the thread in this forum:http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=3158

curtis
03-04-2011, 03:38 PM
Because I'm in constant improving stage, my enclosures and matching up drivers in hopes of molding the sound physically (enclosure mods like adding 50lbs of non drying modeling clay to internal walls for each tower/main) before letting my receiver shape it digitally, my greatest change in signal came around this past holiday season when I couldn't mess with my stuff due to family in town. I went from 1st calibration session in which it set the level for each tower at 75%. Now, this is with the older titanium tweets and Morel drivers and that sensitivity was suppose to be 91db at initial build. I thought hmmm, i've never had my receiver ever set anything up that strong and the output was not blow you out of the water crazy loud either. After the first 40hrs and a 2nd calibration, the signal dropped to about 45% from 75% and it was night and day, huge difference. Beit I never ran pink noise, white noise or anything crazy through them and the titanium tweets were supposedly already broke in and matched. Output was louder and of course the definition was huge.

Reference: Yamaha RX-V465
System: 4.2 (Tang Band and Morel Drivers)
Mains: Tower TWW (I will be a future Ascend tower buyer)
Rears: Tower MTM (what he said ^)
Subs: Stereo 10" subs (I will be a future owner of Rythmic products)
Mains: 60" apart and 10.5' to my ear canals sitting at reference listening position
Got it...but that was the first 40 hours. What about now?

curtis
03-04-2011, 03:40 PM
In my case the break-in was quite audible. For my Sierra center I hooked it up and started listening to U2 360 Blu-ray in DTS-HD. Something wasn't quite right. It sounded different, not the way I had expected it to, somewhat flat. I rechecked all the settings (they were correct) and sat and listened to about half the concert (thru Elevation) before I was interrupted. I came back the following afternoon to see if I could figure out what was going on. I decided to listen to the entire concert, write down my thoughts, and then start tweaking. The second time around while playing the "Magnificent" track I heard the change in sound about 20 seconds before the end of the track. All of a sudden the sound bacame much fuller, had much more depth. It was the provberbial "blanket lifted from the speakers". I let the song finish while trying to figure out if I accidentally hit something on the remote. Maybe I inadvertanty changed some setting. No. I went back to the beginning and the full sound came through from the start. No settings were changed, my positioning was the same. I could only attribute it to a break-in of the woofer. Its been audio bliss ever since.
So how long was the break-in period?

kma100
03-05-2011, 05:58 AM
The other aspect of break-in is that it never gets worse, only better! And it keeps getting better to a certain point, after which it holds its "best" state :-)

I have always wondered if one was *told* the speaker was broken in, it would sound better to the listener.

Anyway...as long as it sounds good to the listener.

hearing specialist
03-05-2011, 11:19 AM
Good morning everyone!!!

Curtis, right now it always sets my mains to about 40%. The sensitivity seems on the hot side even at 40% and of course the extension always goes deeper at said 40% "Level" using YPAO "Front" calibration program. When I use "Flat" calibration program it sets the level around 30% for reference test levels. I can reach THX reference levels using this "Flat" calibration program with the "levels" set to 75% and that level sir is not wifey friendly. It's safe to say my drivers are broke in at this point as I monitor the calibration levels.

I'm adding an additional 3/4" baffle to both the fronts and rear of my towers and going crazy with additional bracing so I will let you know the calibration scheme and results when finished modifying them further.

curtis
03-05-2011, 12:09 PM
HS....I was/am specifically wondering about your statement about continual "break-in" and re-calibration every 40 hours.

How long have you had your speakers? Do they still continue to change, and to what degree?

hearing specialist
03-05-2011, 06:09 PM
My newest Tang Band drivers were purchased at the end of November 2010. I'm very methodical about my measurements and please also understand that as my newest drivers are being broken in i'm also doing enclosure mods. I really provide critical listening and as i'm ready or rested to do more things I do mods to my towers. Pretty much alternating. I'm focusing on listening to each modification to see if any difference trying not to confuse the two.

I currently spent all day today tearing one tower apart and adding additional baffles to the front and rear adding up to 1 3/4" f&R as well as experimenting with ceiling tile/acoustic tile with angled internal channels or baffles. I'm painting tomorrow and tearing the other tower apart to also install new crossovers in each and install the additional baffles. I cannot wait to finish and re-calibrate!!! Come on over and i'll order pizza!

curtis
03-05-2011, 08:59 PM
I am just really interested in the changes that happen every 40 hours.

soundseeker
03-07-2011, 11:51 AM
So how long was the break-in period?

From out-of-the-box to the point where I actually heard the change was about 3-4 hours.

I never did notice this quantum change when I first got the R/L. It did change over the course of 2 weeks and I'm sure that part of it was my ears acclimating to the Sierra sound.