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Steve808
01-30-2009, 08:16 PM
This is my first sub And I just got a D15 SE subwoofer a few minutes ago. It came with only a power cord and no instructions on how to set it up. I'm assuming I need to connect my sub cable to the line in. Does it make a difference when connecting to either the L/R? I just thought their would also be a single line in to connect to. Sorry, this is my first sub and just want to be sure I set it up right. I will be connecting it to a Denon 1909. Thanks.......

curtis
01-30-2009, 08:23 PM
Either L/R will work fine.

Steve808
01-30-2009, 08:25 PM
Thanks -curtis

Rÿche 1
01-31-2009, 12:02 PM
There's no manual? I'll be receiving mine next week...

milkfat
01-31-2009, 02:19 PM
I received my sub a few weeks ago. There was a single page titled "A370PEQ Quick Guide" included in the box. It explains all the controls including how to connect to the inputs.

"For sub output from HT receiver/processor, one can use either of the two (R+L) line level inputs. A Y splitter can be used to connect a single source signal to both line level inputs. This connection increases the gain by 6db. It can be used for high efficiency front speakers where more subwoofer gain may be needed."

I'm sure if you contact Rythmik they'll gladly send you the guide. I wasn't able to locate it on their site.

Steve808
01-31-2009, 02:59 PM
Thanks for the reply's everyone.. I wasn't that concerned about not having the manual. But more concerned about which input to plug into and curtis came back with a fast response to my question. (thx again curtis) I'm coming from a $300 Pioneer HTIB and this is my first hi-end sub and just wanted to make I set it up right. I ran audyssey last night and set the cross over to 80, I have the sub set to +3.0 db. I'll try later on to see if I can get it closer to +1.0 db but so far it sounds great and blends in well with the Sierras. I know the sound will improve in the next week or two as the sub gets broken in. But as of right now I am extremely happy with the way things are sounding, but more tweaking to do. If anyone has any suggestions on some setting for Movies and Music that will get me close to where I should be, would be greatly appreciated.
ps
I did got to Rythmik's site to see if I could find the manual before posting here.
Ascend is a great company with outstanding products and people.

milkfat
01-31-2009, 03:26 PM
You may have already found it, but here's a link to Rythmik's recommended initial settings:

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showpost.php?p=30580&postcount=2

I leave all the settings in "max quality" mode for my normal listening levels (Rumble Filter off and Extension Filter set to 14hz/high damping). If I'm showing off with high SPL then I turn on the Rumble Filter and set the Extension Filter to 28hz/low damping.

There is a lot of information available if you cruise around the Rythmik Audio website. He goes into a lot of detail about the different settings.

RythmikAudio
01-31-2009, 05:31 PM
I have uploaded the quick guides to the download area: amplifier manual (http://www.rythmikaudio.com/download/A370PEQ.pdf). There are two important links in it about the phase/delay adjustment and curve plots for each function on the amplifier. Both links are from our website. They should be very useful for those who don't navigate our site as often as a jump start.

Steve808
01-31-2009, 05:40 PM
Thanks Milkfat,
I found those setting last night and used them.
T will check out Rythmik Audio's website for information on different settings

Steve808
01-31-2009, 07:38 PM
I have uploaded the quick guides to the download area: amplifier manual (http://www.rythmikaudio.com/download/A370PEQ.pdf). There are two important links in it about the phase/delay adjustment and curve plots for each function on the amplifier. Both links are from our website. They should be very useful for those who don't navigate our site as often as a jump start.

Thanks for the link Brian
I love the piano blk look and feel of the sub, It has a very solid built feel to it.
I'm getting it tuned in with my Sierras and loving how it blends in so well with them.
I've been listening mostly to music thru out the day. top of my list is An Evening With FourPlay with Bob James, Lee Ritenour, Nathan East, Harvey Mason. is a great Jazz DVD to listen too.

Rÿche 1
01-31-2009, 08:48 PM
I honestly cannot believe I spent a grand on a sub, but I upgraded to Sierra's, so thought I might as well get a great sub to match them

Hey Brian, how come you can't defeat the crossover on the amp? I would think for this kind of money, it should have every option lol

RythmikAudio
01-31-2009, 09:16 PM
Hey Brian, how come you can't defeat the crossover on the amp? I would think for this kind of money, it should have every option lol

Well it has to do with the servo design. In short, the servo utilizes a frequency band over which it can achieve precise cone movement control. And voice coil inductance does the opposite. We have done all the tricks to bring inductance down. The result is the servo has a naturally roll-off starting at 80-90hz (depending on models). For subwoofer application, this is good enough. To extend the top end, I would need to add additional circuitry which will just add coloration. I have decided not to do. So far I haven't heard any problem. As our web page phase alignment (http://www.rythmikaudio.com/phase1.html) will show you, phase alignment is way more important than the slope of the front speakers or subwoofers.

Rÿche 1
01-31-2009, 10:56 PM
Ok, thanks for the explanation...I was just thinking, with my home theater receiver, you use the crossover built-in the receiver, so you don't need the crossover on the sub...But, I understand to just turn the crossover on the sub all the way up, as to not interfere with the receiver crossover

Mag_Neato
02-02-2009, 10:18 AM
Brian, you have an email.........:)

azanon
02-09-2009, 12:10 PM
Ok, thanks for the explanation...I was just thinking, with my home theater receiver, you use the crossover built-in the receiver, so you don't need the crossover on the sub...But, I understand to just turn the crossover on the sub all the way up, as to not interfere with the receiver crossover

Unless you set the receiver to cross above 80-90hz, something I've found to be a very common occurrence with Audyssey. Also, LFE content is reported to go as high as 120hz.

Wow, can't defeat the crossover? TBH, isn't it pre-dolby digital era to be crossing manually with a sub?

davef
02-09-2009, 12:49 PM
Wow, can't defeat the crossover? TBH, isn't it pre-dolby digital era to be crossing manually with a sub?

This statement is completely wrong!

One has absolutely nothing to do with the other... You are not "crossing manually" to the subwoofer. The receiver's crossover is still in effect (the subwoofer does not and can not control the receiver's crossovers). The only difference is that the LP filter on the subwoofer is still engaged, one simply needs to turn the LP filter up to the highest setting. (same thing we did for tens of thousands of subwoofers at M&K).

The reason for this is because when you defeat the LP filter, you are bypassing an opamp stage and various resistors and capacitors. By removing these components, you are actually changing several other characteristics of the critical low-level source signal, before the amplification stage. Bypassing these components does more than simply defeating the subwoofer's low-pass filter...

Precise servo control of the woofer is achieved by calculating a predicted response. Variations from this predicted response cause the servo to "correct". Defeating the LP filter will throw off the already predicted response and the precise servo control of the woofer will not be as accurate.

I hope you can understand the above... Servo subwoofers should not be confused with non-servo subwoofers, they are far more complex...

azanon
02-09-2009, 01:04 PM
This statement is completely wrong!

That was a question, and questions can't be wrong.


One has absolutely nothing to do with the other... You are not "crossing manually" to the subwoofer.The receiver's crossover is still in effect (the subwoofer does not and can not control the receiver's crossovers).

Sure, the receiver's crossover is in effect, BUT if your receiver is crossing at 120hz, and your sub is crossing at 80hz, which speaker is then playing 100hz material? Answer: (other than spillover) - none of them are.


The reason for this is because when you defeat the LP filter, you are bypassing an opamp stage and various resistors and capacitors. By removing these components, you are actually changing several other characteristics of the critical low-level source signal, before the amplification stage. Bypassing these components does more than simply defeating the subwoofer's low-pass filter...

A bunch of stuff over my head, but none of which changes the fact that most modern subs allow you to defeat the crossover. Actually, so far, this is the only modern sub I know of that won't let you. Are there any other ID's that won't let you do it (which is a nice way of say, can't do it)?


Precise servo control of the woofer is achieved by calculating a predicted response. Variations from this predicted response cause the servo to "correct". Defeating the LP filter will throw off the already predicted response and the precise servo control of the woofer will not be as accurate.

Lamen's interpretation: You give a lot to gave "servo" benefits.


I hope you can understand the above... Servo subwoofers should not be confused with non-servo subwoofers, they are far more complex...

I understood enough. They lack one essential dolby digital era sub ability, which is the ability to defeat the crossover and allow the receiver to completely, and entirely control which sound goes where.

RythmikAudio
02-09-2009, 01:31 PM
That was a question, and questions can't be wrong.


If you haven't read this pagehttp://www.rythmikaudio.com/phase1.html, please do so (that others). Phase integration is more important than roll-off slopes. The example subwoofer in those plots is our F15/D15 sub. The front speakers cover a range of what you will find in this market: small woofer, mid size woofer, sealed and vented. With proper adjustment on the HT menu, they all get the best results which really makes one wonder what benefits that a flat to 20khz subwoofer can bring to that. The xover between front speakers and subwoofers are just a platform. We need to know how to use it to our best and making a subwoofer flat to 20khz would not even help.

Mag_Neato
02-09-2009, 01:46 PM
Azanon, If you must have a sub with a defeatable crossover, buy one. You certainly do not want to get an "outdated" product.

I ran my last sub in bypass mode. A Rocket UFW-10. The Rythmik Direct Servo 12" I have is sonically superior in every category, without a defeatable crossover. The receiver does tell which sounds and frequencies go where. The sub's crossover is dialed all the way up and is not affecting the frequncies below it's highest setting (minimally if any). True, if you want to cross over at 100hz or higher then a servo sub may not be the best choice.

We all have to make decisions which put our minds at ease, so go with your gut.

azanon
02-09-2009, 01:59 PM
Azanon, If you must have a sub with a defeatable crossover, buy one. You certainly do not want to get an "outdated" product.

Do you not see my sig? Did that. I'm just having an audio discussion. Do you not discuss products other than the ones you specifically own?

I'll admit I didn't know it lacked that feature when I made my decision though. So as it turned out, I'm just that much more comfortable with my final decision.


I ran my last sub in bypass mode. A Rocket UFW-10. The Rythmik Direct Servo 12" I have is sonically superior in every category, without a defeatable crossover. The receiver does tell which sounds and frequencies go where. The sub's crossover is dialed all the way up and is not affecting the frequncies below it's highest setting (minimally if any).

Of course it doesn't affect the sounds below the crossover. It affects the ones above it.


True, if you want to cross over at 100hz or higher then a servo sub may not be the best choice.

You think? ;-) I'm crossing at 80hz now, but I still want the option to go higher down the line if I make changes necessitating that.


We all have to make decisions which put our minds at ease, so go with your gut.

As i said above, I did. I'm just discussing audio equipment, and I'm doing it here because I'm an Ascend owner.

curtis
02-09-2009, 02:03 PM
defeatable crossover or not....my Rythmik sounds better just about any other sub I have heard. It has everything I need to integrate it into my system. I don't plan on ever crossing about 80hz, that comes with its own drawbacks.

davef
02-09-2009, 02:09 PM
That was a question, and questions can't be wrong.

Az, I am too busy to get into these issues with you once again, nor am I in the mood today :(

Pre-Dolby digital era and lack of- or inclusion of- a crossover "defeat" option have nothing to do with each other.


Sure, the receiver's crossover is in effect, BUT if your receiver is crossing at 120hz, and your sub is crossing at 80hz, which speaker is then playing 100hz material? Answer: (other than spillover) - none of them are.

Other than yourself, I have not come across any Ascend customer (using any of our speakers, including our HTM-200 SE) who are setting the LP filter on the receiver to 120Hz. If that is what they wish to do, many of today's subwoofers should also be eliminated from their choices, including our servo subwoofers.


A bunch of stuff over my head, but none of which changes the fact that most modern subs allow you to defeat the crossover. Actually, so far, this is the only modern sub I know of that won't let you. Are there any other ID's that won't let you do it (which is a nice way of say, can't do it)?

Ok - how many ID subwoofers are servo controlled? :rolleyes:



Lamen's interpretation: You give a lot to gave "servo" benefits.)

In your opinion, AZ... Honestly, I tire of your continual knocks against these subwoofers, of which you admittedly do not understand the functionality of- nor have you any experience with. The only option given up by adding servo is the fact that these subwoofers will cost a bit more and don't give you the ability to crossover at higher than 80Hz -- of which that option only eliminates you as a customer. To this date, this drawback ,that only you are attempting to make a big deal of, has not even come into question with any other subwoofer customer of ours or Rythmik, or has any other consumer even expressed concern about. By adding servo control, proven and well documented performance enhancements are gained.

These are the only subs I found that match the sound quality and dynamics of our Sierra-1 and I would never recommend anyone cross over at higher than 80Hz, regardless of what your "receiver" or Audyssey recommended. If my "receiver" recommended a crossover point higher than this, I would return this receiver and purchase another - esp if I planned on using Audyssey and didn’t plan on tweaking various options myself.



They lack one essential dolby digital era sub ability, which is the ability to defeat the crossover and allow the receiver to completely, and entirely control which sound goes where.

Again, in your opinion... I certainly don't consider a crossover defeat feature as essential -- and I have been involved in subwoofer development since the days of Dolby Surround to Dolby Pro-logic to Dolby Digital. Regardless of the setting of the LP filter on the subwoofer, your receiver has full control of "which sound will go where". Set your receiver's crossover to 80Hz, and 80Hz (reduced by 3dB in amplitude) and below will go to your subwoofer, and 80Hz (also reduced by 3dB in amplitude) and above will go to your speakers. Set it at 60 Hz, and the -3dB crossover point will be 60Hz. Set it at 100Hz, and the -3dB crossover point will be 100Hz.

How your subwoofer reproduces the source signal it is sent is an entirely different matter than your receiver controlling which sound goes where. And yes, the Rythmik subs output signal will be reduced in amplitude at say 100Hz (as opposed to flat) but the only person I know of who is concerned about this is you. I certainly do not want to hear male voices through my subwoofer by crossing over at higher than 80Hz (the start of the male vocal range)

I will not spend anymore time on this, Az.

scape
02-20-2009, 12:03 PM
LFE is dilapidated in my opinion and hopefully being phased out of the whole digital experience.
read this: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/features/technical-topics/miscellaneous-ramblings-on-subwoofer-crossover-frequencies.html
furthermore, if your calibration is proposing 120hz XO, something is terribly wrong or you have smaller performers, like a htib setup, which simply cannot reach below those levels. I would suggest going to avsforum.com and looking for proper setups for your system, but I highly suggest setting your speakers to cross over at 80hz, set the sub xo to 80hz on the avr and start performing tests, moving up towards 90hz as needed. even at 90hz I found the sound reproduction to completely change for my system, now everything is simply at 80hz -- which just so happens to be a great meeting point for many subs and quality speaker sets. btw, LFE's 120hz upper limit is not a rolloff, but rather a final cutoff, most information in this upper sub-range, in my opinion, should be reproduced by an actual speaker. the LFE rolloff begins around 80hz, which is ironically when most subs roll off...
try and manually override your calibration with 80hz and listen to the improvement.