Rythmik D-15 first impressions

[merrymaid520]

I posted this over on avs,

I have been listening to the Rythmik for about an 1hr or so after level matching it.
I will use Tim's spreadsheet & measurement technique later this week after I enjoy it as is for a bit.
First off, the sub came packaged well, wrapped in a nice cheese cloth type sheet to protect the very impecable piano black finish. After calibrating I played some Multi CH SACD & DVD-A's on it. First up, Brothers in arms on SACD in 5.1. The first 3 songs sounded simply breathtaking. Very clean, chest pounding bass. Soon after my wall clock flew off the wall(was above the TV):) The money for nothing track had amazingly tight bass that didn't float around after each note compared to my previous SVS.
Next was the track Brandon & PAtrick remember off the rob Thomas DVD-A (all that I am). That low bass drop at the beginning was intense! It went very low and shook the room. It was a note that can be felt more than heard, if that makes sense. In my opinion I had already determined the Rythmik reaches lower than the SVS. Next was output tests. I cranked some Eagles tunes and my DVD-A quad mix of DSOTM, the time & money tracks were awesome too!

For movies I demoed some Blu-ray discks such as Black Hawk down and later on tonight Underworld Evolution. During BHD, the Rythmik had more than enough output at its current 14hz high damping setting(for cleanest output). After my brief session so far, it has plenty of output(maybe even more than the SVS) and reaches lower at the same time while sounding cleaner(less decay---if thats the term). I cant get much more scientific considering I can't directly compare the SVS and Rythmik since the SVS sold a couple weeks back.

Some teaser shot for all..........
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/IMG_3900.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/IMG_3901.jpg


I will continue to evaluate and calibrate as I have more time.

So far very happy though:D

Great work Dave & Brian!

Brandon

[merrymaid520]

With the crossover setting on the sub, what setting based on my setup is ideal? I was thinking around 60-80hz?

My current sierras are set to small now.

[Mike^S]

Which SVS did you have? Was it in the same place as the Rhythmik?

[curtis]

With the crossover setting on the sub, what setting based on my setup is ideal? I was thinking around 60-80hz?

My current sierras are set to small now.
If you are using the crossover on your receiver....which is what I am assuming since the speakers are set to small, then turn the crossover on the sub to its highest setting...essentially taking it out of the picture since it is not needed.

[merrymaid520]

Thanks Curtis!

I will.

Mike,

I had the SVS PC Ultra 12" cylinder sub. Yes, it was in the same location.

[merrymaid520]

Curtis,

One more question in terms of phase adjustment. I read from Brian on a post in here that one should add about 4 ft to the distance setting on the reciever for ported speakers(sierras) compared to the fronts. I did that but what do I adjust the phase setting to on the sub itself?

Thanks.

[Gov]

Curtis,

One more question in terms of phase adjustment. I read from Brian on a post in here that one should add about 4 ft to the distance setting on the reciever for ported speakers(sierras) compared to the fronts. I did that but what do I adjust the phase setting to on the sub itself?

Thanks.

Since its farfield I would say start with 0. I think you will end up leaving it at 0 in your set up.

[merrymaid520]

Thanks Gov,

I played with it a bit and the "0" setting sounds good and when switched all the way to 180, I lose tons of sound from it. So 0 should be fine unless anyone has another thought.

[curtis]

Yeah...do what sounds good. I'm still not clear on phase integration with ported vs sealed, especially since when setting the speakers to small and crossing at 60-80hz, the port really does not come into play.

[RythmikAudio]

Thanks Gov,

I played with it a bit and the "0" setting sounds good and when switched all the way to 180, I lose tons of sound from it. So 0 should be fine unless anyone has another thought.

Since you already did the delay time adjustment on the HT receiver, nothing needs to be done on this phase adjustment. Phase adjustment on the plate amp is for cases where delay time adjustment is not available (for instance, those who uses 2 channel receiver). From your report, you most likely have the correct phase adjustment as 180 phase inversion lost a lot of bass.

I haven't replied to the first question about first order RC because I really prefer you to try 1) run front full range and direct LFE to front speakers, and 2) use the RCA output (HP filtered) for your front speakers and direct LFE to front speakers. If you compare the two in music mode and you cannot hear much difference after optimal adjustment, I will simply recommend configuration 2) without even consider RC filter. If you do hear the sound difference and prefer the sound characteristic in 1), then we can consider RC filter.

-Brian

[merrymaid520]

So you want me to try running the front L&R signals full range thru the plate amp and compare to see if I notice whether or not the plate amp colors the sound in any way, correct?

Sorry to summarize, I just want to be clear.

Brandon

[RythmikAudio]

So you want me to try running the front L&R signals full range thru the plate amp and compare to see if I notice whether or not the plate amp colors the sound in any way, correct?

Sorry to summarize, I just want to be clear.

Brandon

Correct. Literally, you compare two things in music mode.
1) One is front speaker full range. Two RCA cables from preamp outputs to plate amps. On the plate amp, set the xover at around 60hz and select 80hz/24 switch. Set the phase around 12 o'clock position. This is based on my educated guess. In this mode, you can literally turn off sub and compare the effect of adding a sub.

2) The second is front speaker filtered with the HP filter via plate amp line level outputs. In this case, you want to again select 80hz/24, and set the xover at 80hz and different from the above case, you need to keep phase adjustment low at 9 o'clock position.

-Brian

[merrymaid520]

Brian,

Gotcha.

I will try that tomorrow hopefully and report back and we can proceed from there.

Thanks,
Brandon

[robruffo]

Juts a suggestion, based on your pics - If you lower your center to below your TV, the soundstage will improve, as the height difference between it and your mains will be lesser.

[merrymaid520]

Robruffo,


That option is ideal but unfortunately not possible. My stand is not large enough for that. Someday when I get my plasma tv, I can place the center on the stand again:)

[jrhooper1963]

Am I the only one who thinks it is odd to place bookshelf speakers on stands. It seems to me that one would just go with a quality floorstanding speaker. I love my Sierras, but probably would have opted for floorstanders if not limited to space constraints. Oh well, just my opinion.

[merrymaid520]

Brian,

I played with the configurations you suggested and the results were good. I was able to integrate the sub with my 2ch preamp. I am little leary that I might of heard some "effects" along the signals path thru the plate amp. Another option I thought of was to use the preamp / amp as usual and level match the receiver just to output the LFE signal to the sub. This way I maintain a short signal path for 2ch listening and can integrate the sub too.

How i did it was to level match the preamp to the yamaha at different volume levels. I recorded the data(maybe about 6 volume levels that I typically listen at). So now when I want to listen in 2.1 with the Rythmik & preamp only, I turn the preamp to my desired volume, and look at the chart I created and match the volume on the yamaha for the LFE signal. Sounds like a pain, but I usually just set the volume at one level and walk away anyway.

I appreciate your efforts in steering my in the right direction. I was just afraid that running my 2ch signal through a plate amp would degrade the sound plus I had to move the sub closer to the stand for extra wiring and things looked worse there anyway.

So now I have two options when listening through my preamp, one with just the sierras(full range) and the other with the yamaha feeding the sub the LFE signal(volume matched).

Hope this all made sense:eek:

[merrymaid520]

One more thing,

Should I set my receivers sub crossover at 60hz or 80hz. And here is the subs plotted response at my listening position.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=33e3ca83b15a4200d2db6fb9a8902bda

From my understanding, one should not use any EQing to raise dips, so any suggestions?

[curtis]

Should I set my receivers sub crossover at 60hz or 80hz.
What ever sounds best to you.

[merrymaid520]

An update after finally dialing in my recently purchased Behringer FD and the Rythmik 15".

I have spent the last few weeks learning how to properly use REW, my mic, and the Behringer FD to EQ my sub. The results were surprising. The first few pics in this thread show my sub to the right of the TV. After taking more accurate measurements with my mic, soundcard, and REW I found that spot to be bad for a flat room response. I since have moved the sub to the right of the TV in between the sierra and the TV. Immediately the room response was flatter and I had only one small dip and several peaks which are better to EQ out.

I have played around and took probably 100 different measurements in the last few weeks trying different crossover settings, house curves, and etc. I finally settled on a more flat respone versus the house curve many use. I didnt feel the need for a boosted low end. Plus, my room naturally had a good response below 30hz so If anything i could have lowered it with the BFD but chose not to. I ended up crossing over the sierras at 80hz rather than me previous setting of 60hz. The reason for this was to allow me more of a frequency range to adjust with the BFD and I was able to produce a flatter response from 20hz all the way to 80hz.

After many listening sessions and finding the right gain on the sub, i am finally extremely pleased with the Rythmiks integration with my sierras. The sub blends so well and music sounds like its all coming from the mains and not a sub & speakers. The Rythmik compliments the sierras so well that I have another component coming to try out. My current proceed pre amp does not have a sub input so I ordered a parasound 2100 that has both HT bypass and the sub input/output with built in corssovers for both the mains & sub. This will allow me to better integrate my sub into both the HT system and my 2ch setup.

I also splurged on a great deal on the slim devices Transporter to replace my squeezebox 3. I have always wanted to try a seperate DAC and the Transporters has received rave reviews! It will stream my lossless FLAC files and I can run my oppo 980 through it too!

Heres a better more accurate plot of my Rythmiks room response from about 20hz-200hz from REW software no smoothing.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/flatresponse80hzsubsierra200hz.jpg

[King]

Am I the only one who thinks it is odd to place bookshelf speakers on stands. It seems to me that one would just go with a quality floorstanding speaker. I love my Sierras, but probably would have opted for floorstanders if not limited to space constraints. Oh well, just my opinion.

Too me it seems the other way! If you are going to use a sub X/O, 80hz, you might as well spend the extra floorstand speaker money, on smaller upgraded Monitor speakers, and put them on stands.
Since 80hz retires a lot of the floorstanding speaker. Your down to a monitor anyways.