PDA

View Full Version : CBM-170SE Stereo Review



®Magic
02-04-2008, 01:34 PM
Ascend Acoustics CBM-170SE Review

Hello. My name is Chris, and after the holidays I decided to put together a stereo system at or under a $500 budget. Following is a somewhat lengthy story on the entire transaction. I fully admit to not being a cultured audiophile at this point, but hopefully it will be informative regardless of that. Here goes…

Background

Currently I’m an MBA student, and after years of putting money towards stuff like a HDTV (albeit small @ 26”), PC’s, laptops, etc…I figured it was high time I actually purchase a reasonable sound system to go along with everything else. Over the college years I’ve been fairly space constrained, so up until now I’ve been “ok” with a small 2 speaker aiwa deal. I also spent some time a few years back messing with some pro audio equipment (protools, ev, Mackie, various studio monitors, etc.), so while I don’t profess to be an expert by any measure, I feel comfortable saying my existing setup was subpar.

My personal “Wants” in a speaker

Basically a little bit of everything. In no particular order (other than music being #1):

1.) Music – I grew up listening to virtually everything. So I wanted speakers that were at least relatively flexible re: genre.
2.) PC – Once again, I’m space constrained at the moment, so they’d be plugged into the ‘ole Hercules Game Theater XP I still run.
3.) Movies – I also love movies, so good performance here is also a must.

Also – as an overarching MUST, I wanted speakers that would be neutral. Back when I was messing around with protools and had the use of some studio monitors, I grew to love as well as appreciate speakers that didn’t color material.

Research

First, I went and listened to numerous different systems at the local tweeter store (with my own source material). I listened to friend’s systems, and then I scoured every audio forum I could find and tried every google search combination imaginable to locate reviews.

Interestingly, it was over on AVSforums (which as an aside are at the same time both helpful and a complete cesspool) that I started to read about internet direct companies. I hadn’t really heard/conceived of such companies existing, but it definitely makes sense in this new age of “made directly to order” businesses (i.e. Dell).

After reading more than I can ever begin or desire to detail here, I had settled between trying something from either Ascend or AV123. Both companies seemed to be very customer oriented, so I felt I really couldn’t go wrong with either; though from reading reviews the CBM-170SE’s seemed to fit my needs better (greater neutrality). The 4.92 rating over 80+ reviews on Audioreview also didn’t hurt, or the fact that the 170 model has been around for ~7 years w/only 1 major change over that timespan.

I can’t say how happy I was to log onto the Ascend site and see that they had a recertified pair for only $258 + $20 shipping (& no tax)….with everything brand new except the crossover and the cabinets. And oh yeah, they were also throwing in the full warranty on top of everything else.

Ordering Process

After discovering the deal, I proceeded to call up Ascend and make a few inquiries. Dina picked up the phone, and was quite helpful in handling all my concerns. Specifically, she clarified that at most the recerts would have minor scratches (if any), and that they would be guaranteed to sound as good as a completely new pair. Obviously, the most important factor to me is the sound quality, but I also didn’t want giant gashes on the cabinets either. Due in no small part to how well the call with Dina went, I placed an order for the recertified CBM170SE’s.

Receiver

I had read a lot about numerous different receivers out there, from Yamaha to Onyko to Sony to HK. After looking around at prices though, I found the Harman Audio recerts on ebay tough to beat. Thus, I purchased the HK 3480 for ~$140 out the door (including tax & shipping). The great price as well as full warranty made it an easy choice for me.

http://junkies.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/hk-3485.jpg

Why stereo and not home theater? Call me crazy, but I’ve never been huge on surround sound. It’s great and all, but stereo is more than sufficient for me. I still find stereo to be quite enjoyable for movies. Note that I do eventually plan to go for a home theater, but when that time comes I’ll either just give the HK to my parents (don’t ask what they’re still using) or use it for a secondary system.

Speaker Wire

I went to the local audio warehouse in town and bought 12 gauge speaker wire as well as gold plated banana plugs. Aside from the gauge of the wire, I viewed this as pretty much a commodity purchase; even moreso for my less refined background.

Arrival & Physical Impressions

A little over a week later everything arrived together via UPS. They didn’t deliver until around 10pm that night, so needless to say I was getting somewhat perturbed by the end of the wait.

Anyhow, the packages finally arrive, and I dive into unpacking. My initial impressions of the CBM170SE’s are as follows, and have held up over the last 3-4 weeks:

1.) Solid cabinet feel. Sturdy as well as heavy enough to give a good quality impression. For the $100 off I have 2 discernable scratches on the left cabinet that are at most ˝ cm in length. I can’t stress how insignificant these things are.
2.) Great speaker covers. I had always wondered over the years why most speakers had grates over them. Intuitively, I just felt it would result in some level of sound alteration. I’m sure the difference is arguable from person to person, but for me it’s nice to see that Ascend has built these covers to not cover the actual speakers.

Setup

Due to the aforementioned space constraints, my setup isn’t exactly optimal at this time. The CBM170SE’s are 30” off the ground, 10” away from the wall, and 27” apart, with my computer monitor between them. My HDTV is just off to the side of the right speaker.

Here’s a bad picture via the webcam, but that’s as good as it gets since I don’t actually own a digital camera.
http://i25.tinypic.com/2cwyah.jpg

The room layout is as follows. It’s not exactly to scale, but hey…it’s mspaint, what do you want?

http://i30.tinypic.com/244s61l.jpg

Music Impressions

After having listened to the CBM170SE’s over the past 3-4 weeks, I have to give them a resounding “HELL YES.” Even with a less than optimal setup, they fill the room wonderfully, and while I don’t profess to possess an expert ear, they sound great off axis too. Here are a few music highlights for me over the past month. I apologize if my impressions are redundant, but at the very least it’ll give everyone an idea for what I’ve tested the CBM170SE’s on.

*Also note that I will make a few references to the loudness war. If you’re not aware of the issue, please scroll down to Appendix A to familiarize yourself before proceeding.

Beatles
Raw, original, inspiring.

Billy Joel
Just absolute bliss. Especially piano man. I know everyone has said it in their Ascend reviews, but you really do hear new stuff that previously had never been brought out. This song just sounds so phenomenal turned up, as it doesn’t suffer from clipping/loudness issues.
http://i7.tinypic.com/82cwo7n.jpg

Bob Mould
Put in his Workbook album, and the acoustic guitar sounds incredible.
http://i11.tinypic.com/6to22ys.jpg

Bob Seger
Hollywood Nights, Night Moves, Old time R&R, etc. Just amazing.
http://i14.tinypic.com/7xlrn6q.jpg

Bruce Hornsby
Here come the Noisemakers is a great 2cd live set for this unique artist. The speakers create a great phil specter “wall of sound” off this material.

Bruce Springsteen
Live in NYC sounds great (oh yes jungleland)….but his newer albums not only a.) suck but b.) suffer from a ton of “loudness” (in my opinion). I’m more than fine w/the CBM170SE’s exposing garbage production for what it is.

Clapton
Don’t anyone try to tell me his new material is anywhere near as good as his old material. Either way though, it’s all glorious on the CBM-170SE’s.

Enya
Please don’t question my orientation, but I swear it’s soothing. Very soothing.

Joe Satriani
Surfin’ w/the Alien = pure guitar bliss.

Moody Blues
One of my favorite all time bands. I’ve tested everything from their studio material to live at red rocks. The emotion conveyed via the orchestra is tremendous.

Renaissance
This lesser known early prog rock group is incredible on these speakers. If you’ve never heard of them, buy buy buy buy. Tales of 1001 Nights Volume I & II are a good introduction.

Spiritualized
Pure sonic bliss courtesy of spaceman Jason Pierce. Same as renaissance above, if you’ve never heard of them, BUY ASAP.

The Who
Even though I don’t have a sub (yet), the CBM170SE’s do a more than good enough job for me on the harder who tracks.

Van Morrison
Closest I’ve felt to his music since I saw him live ~10 years ago (thankfully, he wasn’t trashed that night).

Various Classical artists
The orchestra sounded so great on the Moody Blues cd’s I tested, that I went out and bought a compilation 10cd set of various classical composers. WOW WOW WOW…talk about a great genre to play on the CBM-170SE’s

Velvet Underground
White Noise has never sounded so good.

*Some* of the other artists I tested
ACDC, Caesers, Coldplay, CSNY, Dream Theater, Green Day, Jethro Tull, Jimmy Buffet, John Mellencamp, King’s X, Neil Young, MC5, No Doubt, Paul Simon, Pink Floyd, REM, Scorpions, Son Volt, The Verve, The Jam, The Strokes, Tom Petty, Tool, Toto, White Stripes, Wilco, Young Dubliners

PC Impressions

Games are just incredible on these babies. Everything from Call of Duty to Far Cry to TF2 to Portal to World of Warcraft. There have actually been a few times where I’ve misinterpreted sounds from games (specifically thuds or knocking of doors) for something in the real world.

DVD Impressions

First off, The Eagles – Hell Freezes Over…is my favorite music DVD. Listening to it on the CBM-170SE’s is like rediscovering an old friend that’s discovered the fountain of youth. Oh boy the clarity!

Movies are similar, and I’ve tested a gamut of those too…some of which are listed below:

Kill Bill, Pirates of the Caribbean, the original Star Wars Trilogy, the Indiana Jones Trilogy, Serenity, Matrix, the Terminator Trilogy, Lost in Translation, Jurassic Park, Ghostbusters, Lord of the Rings, Black Hawk Down, Gladiator.

The scary thing is, I don’t even have a sub…but I still have to be wary of angering neighbors with the bass these things put out. It certainly won't replace a sub, but they do a pretty darn bangup job in my opinion.

Speaker Drawbacks

For me, none. However, as always…speakers are a personal taste, and what I may love may be what others hate; or vice versa. The CBM-170SE’s don’t treat bad recordings kindly, but once again, that’s what I wanted – ACCURATE representation of the recording.

Closing Thoughts

The CBM-170SE is a great speaker. For what I paid, I feel as though the value is through the roof. As an MBA student, I’ve spent a great deal of time studying how companies should be run, and Ascend surely stands out as a phenomenal example. You call and/or send emails, and you actually get REAL HUMANS on the other end. What a novel concept!!!

Anyhow, that’s the main reason why I felt compelled to write this waaaaaaaay long review. It’s very rare that I see things done so well, and I just felt a duty to convey my positive experience as best as I could.

And for the record, no…I don’t usually sound like this much of a “raving fan.” This is atypical.

Appendix A – Loudness War


The phrase loudness war (or loudness race) refers to the music industry's tendency to record, produce and broadcast music at progressively increasing levels of loudness to create a sound that stands out from others. This phenomenon can be observed in many areas of the music industry, particularly broadcasting and albums released on CD and DVD. In the case of CDs, the war stems from artists' and producers' desires to create CDs that sound as loud as possible or louder than CDs from competing artists or recording labels.[1]

However, as the maximum amplitude of a CD cannot be increased, the overall loudness can only be increased by reducing the dynamic range. Certain extreme uses of compression can cause distorting or clipping the waveform of the recording.

So...on many albums over the years I have thought, "wow...that sounds kind of neat...but for whatever reason I can't stand listening to it for more than 20 minutes at a time. The #1 album that I always thought this about was Sting's 1999 release, Brand New Day. Low and behold, after talking to paul about this, I found out that Brand New Day is considered one of the absolute worst offenders.

Anyhow, I just saw that rolling stone came out with a lengthy article pertaining to the loudness war a few days ago...go to the link to read up on it (it's too long to post in its entirety, imo).

ROLLING STONE ARTICLE (http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2007/12/27/special-report-the-death-of-high-fidelity-in-the-age-of-mp3s-sound-quality-is-worse-than-ever/)

And another good article can be found here http://www.cdmasteringservices.com/dynamicdeath.htm

And a youtube video about it here
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

Home-made examples

2 tracks from sting's 1999 brand new day album
http://i5.tinypic.com/89l87dy.jpg

Track 12 from the new Plant/Krauss album
http://i19.tinypic.com/6pyyrz6.jpg

Track 2 from the new Eagles album
http://i5.tinypic.com/6t24dmw.jpg

Track 2 from the new Son Volt album
http://i19.tinypic.com/6wzacxs.jpg

I’ve seen son volt live…and enjoy their material, but have always found it hard to listen to over a long period of time. After looking at the above track, it’s not hard to understand why. Also note that I’ve ripped various other tracks from different son volt albums, and it’s just more of the same.

chas
02-05-2008, 11:07 AM
I keep a pretty good eye on this forum but somehow missed your post yesterday. Great review! I enjoyed your comments on the music you used, and I always like to see more info exposing the "loudness war" issue.

Nice work...thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed and informative review.

®Magic
02-05-2008, 12:50 PM
I keep a pretty good eye on this forum but somehow missed your post yesterday. Great review! I enjoyed your comments on the music you used, and I always like to see more info exposing the "loudness war" issue.

Nice work...thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed and informative review.


Thanks for the generous comments. And yes, the loudness war is a serious issue. Kind of sad that with more technology than ever, we see production values and audio quality tanking.

-Chris

chas
02-05-2008, 01:03 PM
This organization is mentioned in the Rolling Stone article you linked but I'll add it anyway:

http://www.turnmeup.org/

Mike^S
02-06-2008, 06:19 PM
Wow, great review! Looks like you got some good deals there.

davef
02-10-2008, 11:06 PM
Hi Chris,

Thanks so much for the wonderful review and for bringing up the topic of the "Loudness War". I have been extremely disappointed with the quality of some (many) of the CDs out there. These highly compressed CDs do nothing for advancing the art of Hi-Fi. It is more of a deterrent, what is the point of manufacturing a loudspeaker that is capable of reproducing the true dynamic range of a CD when the recording itself has its dynamic range squashed? It affects the design of every audio component in the chain.

I certainly hope this trend comes to an end, and quickly :mad:

®Magic
02-11-2008, 11:17 AM
Hi Chris,

Thanks so much for the wonderful review and for bringing up the topic of the "Loudness War". I have been extremely disappointed with the quality of some (many) of the CDs out there. These highly compressed CDs do nothing for advancing the art of Hi-Fi. It is more of a deterrent, what is the point of manufacturing a loudspeaker that is capable of reproducing the true dynamic range of a CD when the recording itself has its dynamic range squashed? It affects the design of every audio component in the chain.

I certainly hope this trend comes to an end, and quickly :mad:

Hi Dave,

I'm honestly not sure if this trend will go away anytime soon. Most people I know are more than content to listen to their 128k mp3's 24/7 on their ipod earplugs. How can they ever determine whether the music is produced horribly if that's all they ever use to "test" with?

From my perspective at least, I think my younger generation just wants a life soundtrack, as opposed to a sonic listening experience. Most of my friends look at me weird when I buy a cd and just go home and listen to it. Honestly, it's rather sad.

Not to mention I have no idea what could serve as a true solution, short of a complete shift in the audio paradigm for the "general" consumer. I would imagine education would need to be at the forefront of any such endeavor.

The "certification" for cd's (linked above) is one step, but I'd also think it would be in the interest of all speaker mfr's to band together to create some kind consumer education program; it's honestly in their best interests. Maybe I'm crazy, but if a good % of consumers can't discern the difference b/w a $200-300 htiab vs. any standalone loudspeaker (that's in the same price ballpark)...a rather significant communication gap exists.

And...I was just about to compose a diatribe about the Grammy's...but I decided to not let myself get worked up over the idiocy of the entire industry. ugh

-Chris

®Magic
02-12-2008, 12:42 PM
As another example...look at track1 for the new springsteen album.

http://i28.tinypic.com/k33lp3.jpg

I swear, this stuff makes me want to cry.

drewface
02-12-2008, 05:30 PM
As another example...look at track1 for the new springsteen album.

http://i28.tinypic.com/k33lp3.jpg

I swear, this stuff makes me want to cry.at least you get a nice fade out at the end...;)

®Magic
05-07-2009, 10:01 PM
Just wanted to drop a quick update; I have graduated, am now employed, and finally have more room in which to set the speakers up.

http://i44.tinypic.com/amea9k.jpg

Dave, they have truly been one of the best purchases I've ever made. Once again, thank you. I can't wait until I get out of the apartment and into a home so that I can actually go with sierras & sub.

curtis
05-07-2009, 10:13 PM
Congratulations on your graduation and employment!

Galwin
05-08-2009, 07:09 AM
I am a bit late in finding this thread. Thanks for the great review and for the information on the loudness wars. I share your appreciation for Ascend speakers and concern about music production. Someday, if you get the chance, try to audition the Sierra's (even if they are outside the current budget). They are special and represent at least as good a value as the 170's.

I share your irritation with the recent Springsteen CD's - great music that's hard to listen to - how can that be? I find the recent one more listenable than Magic.

Welcome to the world of Ascend.

®Magic
05-09-2009, 04:45 AM
Congratulations on your graduation and employment!

Thank you sir. Now we just need ucla and florida back in the final four.


Or actually, we've sucked so much the past 2 years, I'd take just MAKING the tourney. :lol:

®Magic
05-09-2009, 04:53 AM
I am a bit late in finding this thread. Thanks for the great review and for the information on the loudness wars. I share your appreciation for Ascend speakers and concern about music production. Someday, if you get the chance, try to audition the Sierra's (even if they are outside the current budget). They are special and represent at least as good a value as the 170's.

Yes. I plan to go to the Sierra's at some point, and make the 170se's my rear speakers. However, right now I'm in an apartment...so having any more boom would most likely not be appreciated by my neighbors.

Also - being the college football nut I am, my budget right now is actually a bit more focused on building a PA system for our tailgates...EV speakers + Crown Amp + Mackie Board is going to be fun.



I share your irritation with the recent Springsteen CD's - great music that's hard to listen to - how can that be? I find the recent one more listenable than Magic.

Welcome to the world of Ascend.

Yup. It's rather disgusting. Albums with good music suck to listen to. The really depressing thing is that one can't trust the "NEWLY REMASTERED" albums for crap. I've resorted to finding old cd's (manufactured in the ~1985-1995 timeframe) at garage sales.

As just another example, I found John Mellencamp's Scarecrow album the other day.

http://i39.tinypic.com/121e7sy.jpg

Which of those do you think is the original? Which is from the "remastered greatest hits" disc?

®Magic
05-09-2009, 05:06 AM
Here's another -

While Circuit City was going out of business, I noticed they had the 30th anniversary edition of Billy Joel's "The Stranger" for 70% off...so I picked it up.

Now, let's compare how this "legacy edition" to the same songs on his greatest hits volume 1 cd from the early/mid 90's.

Movin' Out

http://i44.tinypic.com/255hqjc.jpg


Scenes from an Italian Restaurant

http://i41.tinypic.com/2hhq3dc.jpg


Only the Good Die Young

http://i41.tinypic.com/2iw4zeu.jpg


Disgusting isn't it?

kylem
05-10-2009, 05:39 AM
This issue (the Loudness Wars) really gets me fired up. Check out track one from REM's Accelerate. I love REM but had a very hard time listening to this album all the way through (and stupid me bought the "deluxe" version :().

(click to enlarge)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/kylemitchell/th_rem.jpg (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/kylemitchell/rem.jpg)

..and Peter Buck is supposedly some kind of audiophile. :confused:

kinggimp82
05-10-2009, 01:43 PM
Here's another -

While Circuit City was going out of business, I noticed they had the 30th anniversary edition of Billy Joel's "The Stranger" for 70% off...so I picked it up.

Now, let's compare how this "legacy edition" to the same songs on his greatest hits volume 1 cd from the early/mid 90's.

Movin' Out

http://i44.tinypic.com/255hqjc.jpg


Scenes from an Italian Restaurant

http://i41.tinypic.com/2hhq3dc.jpg


Only the Good Die Young

http://i41.tinypic.com/2iw4zeu.jpg


Disgusting isn't it?

Quite disturbing. Scenes from an Italian Restaurant is great for dynamic range. it has a lot of different insturments and the volume fluctuates quite a bit. Its a great song why tamper with it. This Loudness War pisses me off.

curtis
05-10-2009, 02:04 PM
This should be interesting regarding this topic:
http://www.digido.com/honor-roll.html

davef
05-13-2009, 02:28 AM
Just wanted to drop a quick update; I have graduated, am now employed, and finally have more room in which to set the speakers up.

Dave, they have truly been one of the best purchases I've ever made. Once again, thank you. I can't wait until I get out of the apartment and into a home so that I can actually go with sierras & sub.

Congratuations on your graduation and employment -- and thanks so much for your nice comments. I am very pleased that your are enjoying our CBM-170SE. These speakers have a special place in my heart (and always will)

®Magic
02-01-2016, 11:00 PM
Sooooo...7 years later and I now live in Seattle...and despite still loving these speakers (and having to be mindful of neighbors as I'm in high density housing) I'm thinking it is time for an upgrade...

:)

Also...hi again everyone! :wave:

chas
02-02-2016, 06:07 AM
Sooooo...7 years later and I now live in Seattle...and despite still loving these speakers (and having to be mindful of neighbors as I'm in high density housing) I'm thinking it is time for an upgrade...


Sierra?

MusicHead
03-27-2016, 02:34 PM
Sooooo...7 years later and I now live in Seattle...and despite still loving these speakers (and having to be mindful of neighbors as I'm in high density housing) I'm thinking it is time for an upgrade...

:)

Also...hi again everyone! :wave:

Hello, waving back!! ;) Good to "see" you again. If you have the budget, you should threat yourself with the Sierra 2. Having been so happy with the CBM-170SE, going for RAAL tweeters is going to be a worthy upgrade.