Received my 5.1 340 setup.

[ClutchBrake]

I just realized I didn't look on the back of the speaker to see if it specified which to use if you aren't bi-wiring. Preparing to feel stupid when I get home...

[oontahey]

Kewl dawg...looking forward to hearing what you think. What are these speakers replacing?

[JohnnyCasaba]

Clutchbrake,

You are correct, if you are not bi-wiring, just leave the jumper between the 2 sets of posts in place and choose either one.

[ClutchBrake]

They are replacing a Klipsch Quintet Microsystem. In all honesty I like the Klipsch. The Ascends are really going to have to impress me to outdo them.

[ClutchBrake]

Thanks! [:)]

[X52]

Please give us your oppinion as the results come in.

JH

[oontahey]

This is either good or bad. Either he is so enthralled he can't tear himself away from the couch to post..or he is so disappointed he doesn't know what to say. :-)

[ClutchBrake]

Finally got everything set up and calibrated last night. Not really sure where to start so I'm just gonna kind of ramble. Take from it what you will.

Got everything home last night and started unpacking. First thing I noticed was that I like the binding posts. Much better quality than the ones on my budget Klipsch speakers. Second thing I noticed was a cosmetic flaw on one of my rear surrounds. Nothing big, but something I would have swapped out another speaker for if I were buying from a brick and mortar. The flaw is a wrinkle in the finish on the lower right corner of the speaker. It extends up about a quarter of an inch and to the left about an inch and a half. Again, not something major, or even something all that noticeable unless you are close to the speaker.

The front left and right speakers fit the stands well. Even with the spikes though they are still a bit short for my room. I'm going to have to lift them up another inch or two. The only other thing I really notice about the speakers and the stands is that the rounded nature of the stands really emphasizes the boxy nature of the 340s. As to whether or not the stands are worth the money, well, only you can decide. If you are handy with a table saw and router you could certainly make them for a heck of a lot less than the asking price. That being said, if you are buying a package deal you are probably going to get a discount on the stands that make them worth it.

Now for the sound. I'm not really sure how first impressions go because it is my understanding you have to give speakers some time to break in. After only a few hours of listening I have come to a few conclusions thus far.

1) With regular stereo television content I don't notice a difference between my Ascends and my Klipsch setup. However, I haven't listened to any real dynamic movies yet. The only thing I watched in stereo last night was a three hour Law & Order.

2) In Dolby Digital my subwoofer disappeared. Hooray! With my old speakers the sub was very easy to localize because I was using a crossover of 100Hz and the small Klipsch speakers had already started to roll off in a major way by then.

3) The next great thing is an extension of point number 2. I like having speakers that are still going strong at crossover. DD 5.1 sounds considerably better. There was a lot of information I was missing because of my old speakers. I no longer feel like there is a hole in movie soundtracks.

4) Now to the bad part. The vocals from the center are very distracting. Rather than coming from the screen my ears hear the voices directly from the speaker and consequently my eyes want to look at the center rather than the screen. Another thing I notice is that certain tones of voices seem to come from the rear of the speaker while others seem to come from the front of the speaker. Either way voices are extremely localized.

I almost hesitate to make the above comments because I do not yet have the center situated the way I want it. It is currently on top of my TV aimed directly forward. This puts the the speaker approximately 20" above my listening position. I plan to find a way to angle the speaker down towards the listening position. I really hope this is the issue. If after experimenting with the positioning of the center the voices are still extremely localized that is not a compromise I am willing to make.

As I said earlier, I hesitate to make any real judgements yet. The speakers only have a few hours on them. I turned on some music this morning and put it in five channel stereo so all the speakers will be going while I am at work. Hopefully by doing this all week the speakers will be ready for some comprehensive testing this weekend.

[curtis]

For the center channel, also rememeber to give it some room in back, and make sure the speaker is at least flush with the front of the the TV screen.

Have fun!

-curtis

[ClutchBrake]

Right now I have the speaker 1.5" over the front of the TV. The rear of the speaker has 25.5" from the back wall.

I really think angling the center will fix it. Doing so isn't going to be easy though.

[curtis]

I have mine flush and about 15" behind it.....remember, the EXBAC circuit compensates for the baffle the TV creates, so maybe there shouldn't be an overhang?....I wonder, maybe I will play with it. It is about a foot above my ears, about 9-10 feet from the listenning position. The sound is well anchored to the TV screen. I have it angled a tad right now, but it did not make a difference.

-curtis

[oontahey]

How did the music sound? I get nervous when you say you don't notice a difference over budget Klipsch...but I imagine that might be due to the fact that the source was the tv.

[ClutchBrake]

I haven't listened to a lot of music yet, that is why I didn't comment specifically on that. I might A-B the Ascends and Klipsches tonight. I need to borrow some CDs from my brother for critical listening.

[oontahey]

The stands are "rounded"? They look square in the picture. Leave work right now and go home and put on some cd's. Get your priorities straight clutch! :-)

[Cliff_L]

Hey Clutchbrake - do you think the problem could be a calibration issue? You didn't say whether you had calibrated the speakers. I also think angling the speaker might help. Perhaps the clarity of the center is a little too clear which draws you to the speaker rather than the TV. ;)

Btw, I have some good CDs to demo remember? ;) When you gonna have me and azanon & marc_h over for some Ascend lubbin? Or if you want to borrow some CDs, let me know & you can pick them up tomorrow? I work in W. Little Rock so it shouldn't be too much trouble to drop by?

[ClutchBrake]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Cliff_L

Hey Clutchbrake - do you think the problem could be a calibration issue? You didn't say whether you had calibrated the speakers. I also think angling the speaker might help. Perhaps the clarity of the center is a little too clear which draws you to the speaker rather than the TV. ;)

Btw, I have some good CDs to demo remember? ;) When you gonna have me and azanon & marc_h over for some Ascend lubbin? Or if you want to borrow some CDs, let me know & you can pick them up tomorrow? I work in W. Little Rock so it shouldn't be too much trouble to drop by?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Definitely not a calibration issue. Calibrating was the first thing I did. I honestly think the issue is the angle of the speaker. Tonight I'm going to put the speaker below the screen and angle it up a little. That will be easier than having it on top of the TV. It will only be temporary though. The permanent place for it will be on top of the TV.

I'd love to have you guys over. All together or one at a time, it's all good. This weekend isn't good because my parents are coming to visit. Probably not good for y'all anyway, being Valentine's weekend and all. I gave up female companionship in favor of my home theater. [;)] Y'all actually have lives.

I'd definitely love to get my hands on your demo CDs. They are far superior to any of the stuff I have.

I went home at lunch and put my Klipsch L/R back in the room. This will let me A-B stereo stuff.

[ClutchBrake]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by oontahey

The stands are "rounded"? They look square in the picture.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

For the most part they are square. What throws them off for me is the beautiful rounded base of the stands. It is a sharp contrast to the squared-off speakers. The front of the speakers are kinda rounded (as are the stands) but the sides and rear are sharply square. It's a shame the 340s don't have the soft rounded edges of the 170s.

[davef]

Hi ClutchBrake,

First off, let me apologize for the slight cosmetic flaw on one of your speakers. This is, of course, not acceptable to us and shouldn't be for you as well. We would be happy to swap the speaker for a replacement (at our expense of course) or I can offer you a b-stock discount for that speaker. Please contact me via email and let me know which option you prefer.

Secondly, regarding your center channel, did you use an SPL meter to fully calibrate all the channels? Is the center sitting in an "enclosure" so to speak? In other words, is it fully open to the left and right or is it enclosed?

Our EXBAC circuit is designed to compensate for extended baffle issues, thus it is more suited to have your center flush with the front of the screen as opposed to hanging over. Angling it downwards a bit should help as well.

What size television is the speaker sitting on?

Also, here is a link to a great product that I commonly recommend: http://www.btech-usa.com/bt14.html

Hope this helps!


Good Sound To You!

David Fabrikant
www.ascendacoustics.com

[ClutchBrake]

Hey Dave,

No replacement or discount needed for the cosmetic flaw. I'm going to swap it to the other side of the room so that the wrinkle will be away from the door.

I did calibrate everything. I use a Radio Shack meter and the Sound & Vision calibration disc. Sound & Vision isn't the fanciest calibration disc but I prefer it to the test tones of the receiver.

Here is my TV http://im2.onecall.com/Image%5fProducts%2fsony%2fKP43HT20%2ejpg
It is not enclosed at all. I like the stand you linked to. The one I found is a Sanus and does not offer enough height adjustability because of the shape of the back of my TV. That one may do the trick quite nicely. The problem I was running into angling the speaker was that the top of the TV is not very deep. This is part of the reason I don't have the center flush with the front at the moment. Putting it flush makes it unstable.

After going back to Home Depot I found the perfect mounting brackets for the rears. I had been looking in wood shelving section of Home Depot when I should have been looking in the wire shelving area. If anyone else is interested I highly recommend getting the 16" version of the brackets found here: http://johnsterling.com/maxbrackets.htm

For the shelf I grabbed a 12"x48" piece pf 3/4" bullnosed MDF and cut two 22" shelves. Home Depot will cut it for free.

The results were perfect for mounting 340 surrounds. I have plenty of space for the rear port and the brackets are way more than enough support for the weight (just make sure you attach them to the wall properly).

The brackets were about $6 each. They make a cheaper one but I didn't like the look of it. The cheaper one looked like it belonged in a laundry room. Though you can't really tell it in the picture the bracket I used looks quite nice. Once I start painting my house I will likely paint both the shelf and brackets to better match the room.

[oontahey]

Thanks clutch..I appreciate you posting your thoughts and look forward to more.

[davef]

Hi Clutch,

Definitely try the 340 center in the space beneath the TV. Strange that you are hearing certain sounds from behind the center channel. Is the TV placed in a corner of the room or against a flat wall behind it?


Good Sound To You!

David Fabrikant
www.ascendacoustics.com

[azanon]

&gt;My suggestion would be to try adjusting the delay on the CC; adjusting it will push/pull the sound horizontally. I'm not sure how your's works, but mine sets by just adjusting how many feet each speaker is away from the listening position. My manual does indicate though that adjusting the center away from the actual measurement can give a more desirable result.

&gt;Ironically, your issue with the CC is one of the things i consider the strengh in mine. So far, i've been amazed how having my CC so much higher than my listening position can still "attach" the voice to the TV (which is also slightly above the listening position). I have to ask; do you recall perceiving my setup as having the same issue? I ask because I also have the 340 center sitting on my TV, and its probably greater than 20" above horizontal from the listening position.

&gt; My final concern is upgrading from Klipsch. Those arn't exactly KLH's.

You're starting to remind me of me, with video cards..... ill upgrade a GF4 4600 with a Radeon 9700. Problem is, the GF4 4600 is a damn good card in the first place, and in the end it takes a benchmark to show a measurable difference.

[J.A.P]

Hey azanon you want to sell your GF4 4600? I need a new video card and don't feel like spending the money for a new one since I just bought the computer.

[azanon]

You wouldnt want it, its unstable in 3d. I just use it as a tester card (in 2d), if i'm having problems with my main card.

[ClutchBrake]

Hey Azanon,

No, I didn't notice the center issue I'm having with your 340 center or CliffL's 170 center.

To answer Davef's question, no, my TV is not flat against the wall or in a corner. The TV stand is about a foot from the wall and the rear of the speaker is two feet from the wall. Oh, I don't have the TV stand pictured above. I have a TV stand I put together out of mdf and 2x4s. Ugly but effective.

I moved the center below the screen last night. It certainly helped bring the voices to the screen but unfortunately it has to be placed right in front of the TV and it sounds really muddy. This weekend I plan to build a bracket that will allow me to angle the center. I think that will resolve the issue.

CliffL hooked me up with some great demo CDs. I have family staying at my house this weekend so I should have a few extra hands to help me A-B.

I'm not going to stress about it much. I've only had them for a few hours. I've got plenty of time to get them right.

[azanon]

Dont forget the CC delay too.... at least toggle it back and forth just to see how it changes your perception of voice and the location.

[ClutchBrake]

I plan to try everything this weekend.

[Cliff_L]

So..what's the verdict?? :)

[ClutchBrake]

Still not pleased with the dialogue. Don't know how that is going to effect overall decision yet.

I listened to a ton of music over the weekend courtesy of Cliff L. I'm simply blown away by the 340s for stereo. The space where my front mains go is a bit cramped so I didn't really have them where I wanted them initially. After deciding to move them there anyway I couldn't be happier. I could listen to disc 1 track 14 all day long (useful only to Cliff). It really is like being there.

Also, for the folks who like to say SV Subwoofers aren't good for music... horse $#!*. My 20-39 PCi sounds phenomenal with the 340 mains. You don't hear that here but you do hear a lot of people at AVS saying SVS aren't good for music. I'd be willing to bet the folks who like to say that are not folks who have heard an SVS in a music setup.

Alas though, I didn't buy Ascends for music. I bought them for home theater. Granted, now that I have heard really good speakers with music I will likely listen to a lot more. Music listening won't replace or even come close to cutting into my TV, DVD, and gaming though. I'm going to give it a bit more time to see if my impressions change.

[curtis]

Clutch,

Can you post some pictures on how the center is set up? Also double check that it is in phase.

-curtis

[ClutchBrake]

My brother gave me his old digital camera last Thursday. I'll see if I can attach a pic. [:)]

Phase isn't the issue. I've checked and double checked both the connections at the terminals as well as with the test tones of my calibration disc.

[Cliff_L]

Disc 1 track 14 happens to be "Blue Skies" by Lyle Lovett. Just thought you might want to know. I'm sorry to hear that it's still not working out to your satisfaction.

[davef]

Hi Clutch,

Your issues with the center channel are puzzling me, dialogue *IS* a very strong aspect of the 340 center and, to this date, we have not received any similar comments as yours.

I am wondering now if something is not quite right...

First off, can you try to describe in detail what you are hearing?

Secondly, swap the center with one of the 340 mains and have a listen.

Thirdly, swap the center with one of your 340 rears.

Let me know if you hear any differences between these speakers at all.

Finally, we would be happy to send you out a CBM-170 center just for comparison in order to assist you in attempting to resolve the matter.

Please let me know...




Good Sound To You!

David Fabrikant
www.ascendacoustics.com

[azanon]

I guess my follow-up question would have to be what do you suspect was different about my setup from yours, since you did not notice a problem with my dialogue. Granted, it could just be a difference in personal perception. You mentioned AVS, and if i've learned one thing from AVS myself, its that different people often perceive sound very differently. Maybe that's all there is to it.

[RandyK]

clutchbrake,

I think i have experienced something similiar to your problem. You might think Im nuts but here is what happened. My neighbor has one of those monster B&W centers (HTM2 I think around $900 or so). Great sounding center but he too was having localization problems like you described. I brought over my 340 (which I love btw) and voila, same problem. No problems at my place with my center or his B&W.

He had his pro-installer come back over to tweak his expensive system. The installer explained to him that because this was a full range center, the low frquencies were causing a vibration (resonanse) in his TV, actually vibrating the cheap plastic box of the television. The resonanse (sp?) was causing the plastic of the tv box to vibrate like a speaker and give off sound in all directions. This installer is a real pro and said he has seen this problem many, many times before. He built a sturdy padded shelf for the center right above the TV and the problem was solved instantly. We tried my 340 again in his setup on the shelf and man did it sound sweet and the vocals snapped to the screen as they should.

Am considering building a similiar shelf for my center, although mine sounds really good as is. I really think this is what you are experiencing.

-R

[ClutchBrake]

RandyK,

That sounds quite likely. I've tried to isolate the speaker by using the supplied pads and have also used a rubber wedge in the rear to make sure the speaker was isolated as best as possible. Maybe I could temporarily rest it on a towel or some foam to see if it makes a difference.

I took a pic of my front soundstage, as well as how my 340 rears are mounted, but this forum doesn't seem to allow attachments to posts. Sorry.

[ClutchBrake]

I'll try swapping speakers out tonight and see how that goes.

[curtis]

This might be worth a try to isolate the CC from the TV:
http://www.ascendforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=321

-curtis

[Cliff_L]

Clutchbrake,

If you want me to bring over my 170 center & save DaveF some money, I'd be more than happy to do that. That way you just have something else to compare it to. You know how to reach me. :)

--Cliff

[december11]

you know what...I kind of had the same issues with the CMT 340 center.
I actually ended up returning it. Partly because I didn't really have a good location to place it because of it's size, but also partly due to the fact that I was never really satisfied with the vocals/dialogue.

I kept the cmt-340 L/R's. Mated with the HSU sub...the combo is spectacular. And that was the puzzling part.
The CMT 340 L/R sound so freakin good, but the center didn't. Granted I had it placed about 2.5 feet off the ground due to positioning contraints, which wasn't the most ideal place for it.

The vocals/dialogue seemed to be overly bassy, and very centralized. The vocals felt like they were coming from a speaker box, as opposed to being widely dispersed. I found myself watching TV/movies stereo as opposed to 5.1 because the vocals sounded so much cleaner and clearer from the 340 L/R's.

I tried angling upwards, I tried different speaker cable (all 12 guage), I tested the connections. Perhaps placing the speaker above the TV might have helped, but it wasn't an option for me.

Is the crossover set differently on the 340 center as opposed to the 340 L/R's? Maybe I had a bad speaker, not sure. I probably should have brought it up with Ascend, but with everyone's stunning reviews of the center I thought it was just my ears.

The puzzling part is the 340 L/R's sounded so clean and clear.
Makes me think more and more that I might have had a bad speaker.
I kept meaning to buy another brand of center for comparison but I never got around to it.

[AjayRav]

Hey guys,

The more I think about this, I believe the problem may lie with the receiver/settings (assuming this particular CMT340C is not defective). Vocals and dialog are the 340's strong suit, and when I switched to it from a Klipsch KV2, the difference was stunning. Sound was a lot more open and less 'honky'. I use a Marantz receiver SR6200 and have found that when the bass-management and tone circuit is engaged, the sound quality suffers a lot, particularly in the warmth of the midrange. It is amazing to me that a receiver of this calibre (Yes, I know it is mid-fi!) colors the sound so! I've found a way to obviate my problems, but the point I'm making is that the receiver may be the culprit here.

Ajay

[december11]

Wouldn't the 340 L/R's then have the same issue as the center?
For me at least, it didn't.
I'm using an NAD receiver with 100 per channel, so it should be more than efficient.

When I get around to it, I'll probably try a couple of other centers out to see I can hear a difference.

[AjayRav]

Actually no. I've actually seen receivers where stereo sounds great but activating the center output dramatically narrows the soundfield (due to the center output from the receiver having altered tonality). This was especially true in ProLogic, less so in DD. In re-reading your posts, I have a couple of questions...Did you have soundfield problems with the center with Dolby Digital sources? TV and cable have fairly poor sound quality and very often sound better in 2 channel. If you had problems with DD, did you lower the center channel output levels on the receiver to have a more harmonious blend? Did you switch the L/R with the center to check if the center channel output was working as it was supposed to? Given that your receiver is an NAD, I am inclined to believe that the receiver should sound great, if it was functioning normally. However, seeing the altered tonality induced by my Marantz (by all accounts, a fairly good receiver) I am getting fairly leery of any digital processing and believe that they can degrade sound unless implemented properly.

[davef]

Some great info going on in this thread!

RandyK offered some good advice, as did AjayRav... To answer an important question.. the 340 center should sound EXACTLY like the 340 mains. If it does not, most likely placement issues. Swap a center with a main and have a listen :)

The center speaker is the most difficult speaker to place due to the fact that it is operating on top of a large baffle and usually very close to a rear wall. This can have many adverse effects.

Almost daily we receive reports on how well the 340c reproduces dialogue and how it directs the sound towards the Television. As other have pointed out, it is definitely a strong point of the speaker.

Clutch... please confirm your center serial number, I want to examine the response curves (yes... we really do keep these on file!) Also, please try the "swapping" I recommended. While it is very unlikely the speaker left our factory with a problem, a hidden defect might have surfaced.

AjayRav... yes, many dsp modes on many different receivers are not implemented properly and can definitely degrade the sound. I have an older Marantz (which I no longer use) that sounded great in stereo as well, Dolby Digital was (to be perfectly blunt) a mess.

december11.... please try any other center and let me know if what you heard previously still exists (my guess is that it will). Try one of your 340 mains as the center and let me know...

Good stuff here!


Good Sound To You!

David Fabrikant
www.ascendacoustics.com

[Derek]

Oooh, ooh!! Can I get my response curves too?!?

Dave, I think you opened a big can of worms! [:)]

Derek

[ClutchBrake]

Sorry for the delay. I was having computer problems last night and wasn't able to get online. I'll post the serial number this evening.

As soon as I can get my brother over I will start swapping out. I want to do it blind.

[ClutchBrake]

Again, sorry for the delay. I've had one hell of a day. On a brighter note part of my hellish day involved closing on the sale of my mobile home. Now that I'm rid of my mobile home I can actually afford my speakers! [;)]

The serial number of my 340c is 93560396.

Don't know when I am going to get around to swapping out the speakers. My brother has guests coming in for the weekend. Probably be able to get him to help one night next week.