PDA

View Full Version : Sierras, full-range or crossed at 80hz?



Grayson73
06-14-2007, 01:20 PM
With 3 Sierras across the front, 2 170SE rears, and SVS 25-31CS sub, would you set the Sierras to full range or crossed over at 80hz? I assume that the 170SEs should be crossed at 80hz regardless of the answer to the 1st question.

Are there different answers for movies and music?

The Panasonic SA-XR57 receiver has crossover settings at 80hz, 100hz, and 120hz.

curtis
06-14-2007, 01:33 PM
With 3 Sierras across the front, 2 170SE rears, and SVS 25-31CS sub, would you set the Sierras to full range or crossed over at 80hz? I assume that the 170SEs should be crossed at 80hz regardless of the answer to the 1st question.

Are there different answers for movies and music?

The Panasonic SA-XR57 receiver has crossover settings at 80hz, 100hz, and 120hz.
I say try all of your options and see what you like.

Mike^S
06-14-2007, 04:33 PM
The Sierras are fully capable of being run full range without a sub for most music. However, it is definitely a good idea to try both. No doubt that at higher volumes, a true subwoofer will handle the bass better than just about any bookshelf speaker.

By running the speakers small with a sub, you also take the burden off the speakers of producing bass which should improve the midrange. Definitely try both. I have my Sierras crossed over at 80hz to my JL F112.

curtis
06-14-2007, 06:19 PM
Boy....every chance you get, you have to remind me how good that F112 sounded. :D

Mike^S
06-14-2007, 08:40 PM
LOL! :D

Dread Pirate Robert
06-15-2007, 12:32 AM
With 3 Sierras across the front, 2 170SE rears, and SVS 25-31CS sub, would you set the Sierras to full range or crossed over at 80hz? I assume that the 170SEs should be crossed at 80hz regardless of the answer to the 1st question.

Are there different answers for movies and music?

For movies, the 170SE typically makes for a more than capable surround speaker--some would even say that it's a bit of an overkill in most setups. In this role, they could probably be run as "Large" for most movies most of the time, but generally they should be crossed over at 80 Hz just in case. For multi-channel music, they should always be crossed over, which is really the manner in which they were designed to be used. Short answer: you're right, cross them over regardless.

The Sierra-1s at the front soundstage are kind of the opposite, actually. For music, you should try setting them to "Large" (or whatever the full-range setting is) to see whether you prefer the more limited (not for most music) but also more articulate bass response. Be sure to disable your receiver's sub output in this case so that the 170SEs will cross over to the Sierra-1s, otherwise your surround channels will have different and more powerful bass capability, which would be just plain weird, in my opinion. :) I would also strongly suggest NOT running your front speakers at full-range while simultaneously sending their bass to your sub (if your receiver even allows for this).

For movies, I assume that you have that 25-31CS for a good reason, so I suggest that you cross over all of your speakers at 80 Hz. The Sierra-1s may have phenomenal bass for bookshelf speakers, but they're generally no match for your sub when it comes to movie soundtracks (unless you have a "44-14CS" and a puny amp ;) ).


The Panasonic SA-XR57 receiver has crossover settings at 80hz, 100hz, and 120hz.

80 Hz is ideal for many reasons (which I've gone over recently in other threads). And personally, I wouldn't even bother with the higher settings, given your speakers.

Grayson73
06-15-2007, 07:59 AM
Thanks for the responses.

I currently have the 340SEs up front and will use this info to help me decide whether to upgrade to Sierras or not.

Since it is a relative pain to change my fronts to large and sub off for music and small with sub on for movies, I may end up just leaving everything crossed over at 80hz. I have to play with my harmony remote to see if I can create a macro.

Otherwise, I'd like to hear more opinions (both music and HT) from those who crossover at 80hz and upgraded from 340SEs to Sierras.

Someone said that there was a difference in this situation for movies, but not a drastic improvement. I assume the same can be said for movies.

To complicate things, I'm thinking that maybe I should upgrade to HD-DVD instead of upgrading my speakers.

Decisions, decisions :)

Mitch G
06-15-2007, 09:12 AM
Hehe, I just did both - upgraded speakers (pair of Sierras) and went to HD-DVD (Tosh A2).
If I had to decide between one or the other, I think I would go with the speaker upgrade. I definitely have more time on the speakers than on the HD-DVD player. Besides, get the big cost out of the way, wait a month and then add on a little (relative) cost (i.e. the HD-DVD player). :)



Mitch

Gov
06-15-2007, 10:10 AM
If it were me and had to pick one, I'd go with the HD-DVD upgrade. Reason being, if I would plan on using a sub with an 80hz XO (which I would) the Sierra upgrade would more than likely not be as dramatic as the switch from SD-DVD to HD-DVD. Maybe I am wrong, but I find it difficult to believe the Sierra's are that much better than the 340SE's run "small" and XO. I think the difference is more likely a slight one dependant on the source material

dallas
06-15-2007, 10:19 AM
I guess it's all about bias, but I'd feel I was throwing money away buy a HDDVD player over a bluray player.

And buying either right now is a bit iffy in itself because neither have unit capable of all the functions you will likely see come christmas. Especially codecs.

With a ps3 or xbox though, upgraded functions are a possibility, so that's the only safe for these things yet.

Then you have that sony has exclusivity on somehting like 15 of the top 20 movies in the last year, that makes HD-DVD a hard sell despite being cheaper.

just info, you have to make your own choice.

Dread Pirate Robert
06-15-2007, 12:34 PM
Since it is a relative pain to change my fronts to large and sub off for music and small with sub on for movies, I may end up just leaving everything crossed over at 80hz. I have to play with my harmony remote to see if I can create a macro.

At the risk of complicating matters, while what I said about turning your sub pre-out off for music is technically true and the proper way to set up your system, in practice it may or may not be a major issue. If you try leaving it on while crossing over the 170SE surrounds only, and this turns out not to be a noticeable problem with music that has relatively aggressive surrounds, then maybe it would be OK for your specific setup. Anomalies would be more pronounced with your current 340SEs than they would be with Sierra-1s, if anything, so any tests you may decide to do now will be valid. A lot depends on how your sub is integrated, of course.


To complicate things, I'm thinking that maybe I should upgrade to HD-DVD instead of upgrading my speakers.

Sigh...I'm still waiting for the format war to end, myself :rolleyes:--I haven't added to my movie collection in I don't know how long.


I guess it's all about bias, but I'd feel I was throwing money away buy a HDDVD player over a bluray player.

Well, the formats are virtually equivalent in technical capability, with the only significant difference being the larger storage capacity of Blu-ray. The question for me is which of the two will the market decide to keep around--which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with capability--assuming they both don't end up battling one another indefinitely within a niche market. Blu-ray stumbled out of the gate very badly (nice going, Sony), but appears to have taken the lead for the time being.


And buying either right now is a bit iffy in itself because neither have unit capable of all the functions you will likely see come christmas. Especially codecs.

Electronics of this sort tend to peak around the third generation, give or take, in terms of both quality and features for a reasonable price. After that point, the market will begin to separate into capable but relatively expensive units and cheap crap.

With regard to codecs, specifically Dolby TrueHD would be nice to have, whether it's in the player or receiver (preferably the latter--I don't care for any silly things the player might want to mix in, just give me the soundtrack unmolested!).


Then you have that sony has exclusivity on somehting like 15 of the top 20 movies in the last year, that makes HD-DVD a hard sell despite being cheaper.

Software is a major factor, as well as cost, as you've pointed out, but these factors are quite fluid. Who knows, perhaps the deciding factor will turn out to be the name "Blu-ray" if consumers like how it sounds and believe that having such a different name means that they're getting something different and better; conversely, "HD-DVD" seems more familiar, which may inspire more confidence in other people. I really have no idea what will happen--whatever. Thanks a lot, Hollywood. :rolleyes:

dallas
06-15-2007, 12:41 PM
Software is a major factor, as well as cost, as you've pointed out, but these factors are quite fluid. Who knows, perhaps the deciding factor will turn out to be the name "Blu-ray" if consumers like how it sounds and believe that having such a different name means that they're getting something different and better; conversely, "HD-DVD" seems more familiar, which may inspire more confidence in other people. I really have no idea what will happen--whatever. Thanks a lot, Hollywood. :rolleyes:

for me,the biggest factor is that blu-ray is 90%-99% of the market in all the terrortories except the US. If the US goes HDDVD , it's VHS all over again. Everything would be cheaper if we follow the worlds lead and stick to one format. But if you have a must see that's only in HDDVD, and can't wait, i guess you don't have much choice either.

muzz
06-15-2007, 01:08 PM
for me,the biggest factor is that blu-ray is 90%-99% of the market in all the terrortories except the US. If the US goes HDDVD , it's VHS all over again. Everything would be cheaper if we follow the worlds lead and stick to one format. But if you have a must see that's only in HDDVD, and can't wait, i guess you don't have much choice either.

Yeah,1 format I agree!!

Only I disagree on the choice.

BD has problems, they can't even get interactive going,meanwhile Microsofts IHD has been working just fine.
Lets face it, they(powers that be) WANT Interactivity, so that BD/Java based system is lacking right now.
HD DVD makes it affordable to the masses, BD doesn't,but BD has more studios..... we'll see how many studios defect when HD DVD becomes $200....

That will put a BIG damper on the price gougers known as BD, and don't think the studios involved, won't be paying attention.

They will.

drewface
06-15-2007, 02:23 PM
does anyone remember when the blu-ray and hd-dvd parties were considering joining forces to incorporate the best of both formats, but then they got greedy and decided to scrap the talks of helping each other and continued on producing two separate formats that would end up making one side more money than the other? i was heartbroken when i heard they decided to not work together...

oh, what could have been... :(

muzz
06-15-2007, 02:27 PM
does anyone remember when the blu-ray and hd-dvd parties were considering joining forces to incorporate the best of both formats, but then they got greedy and decided to scrap the talks of helping each other and continued on producing two separate formats that would end up making one side more money than the other? i was heartbroken when i heard they decided to not work together...

oh, what could have been... :(
Sony can lick my .....

drewface
06-15-2007, 03:03 PM
Sony can lick my .....HAHAHAHAHA

dallas
06-15-2007, 03:12 PM
Sony can lick my .....


I don't buy into that angle. it's about me not them. I'm too selfish to care about them. Besides, if it's cuz you hate sony, then that means you support microsoft and toshiba, or vice versa. There alot of so called negative reasons on both sides. Microsoft is a monopoly and all that tired jazz, and toshiba, I cant' remeber the accusations, but they were involved with something pretty bad, I think selling american military secrets to the russians or something. I'm sure at somepoint, sony was building bombs to kill americans and grinding up babies and butterflys to fuel the fires of their child labor chemical plants.

6 one way, half dozen the other.

I'm all for voting with your dollars, but to me you cant vote "against" someone, only for someone. But when it's big companies, it's usually two sides of the same coin.

muzz
06-15-2007, 03:42 PM
I don't buy into that angle. it's about me not them. I'm too selfish to care about them. Besides, if it's cuz you hate sony, then that means you support microsoft and toshiba, or vice versa. There alot of so called negative reasons on both sides. Microsoft is a monopoly and all that tired jazz, and toshiba, I cant' remeber the accusations, but they were involved with something pretty bad, I think selling american military secrets to the russians or something. I'm sure at somepoint, sony was building bombs to kill americans and grinding up babies and butterflys to fuel the fires of their child labor chemical plants.

6 one way, half dozen the other.

I'm all for voting with your dollars, but to me you cant vote "against" someone, only for someone. But when it's big companies, it's usually two sides of the same coin.

Yep.

My DOLLARS vote for ANYONE that has quality goods vs Sony.

Sound better?

Dread Pirate Robert
06-18-2007, 12:29 PM
for me,the biggest factor is that blu-ray is 90%-99% of the market in all the terrortories except the US.

Hmmm...the most recent article (http://www.homemediaretailing.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?sec_id=2&&article_ID=10774) I've read claimed that the European market, at least, has tracked the US market quite closely with regard to the HD formats. If this is true, then this format war is far from over in quite a large portion of the world's total market. I haven't been keeping close track of the situation in Asia, but it seems that true to form, they have a few additional formats on top of the two we're talking about.


If the US goes HDDVD , it's VHS all over again.

I don't really care, as long as the format that sticks around is up to the task. Betamax wasn't all that much better than VHS anyway. That said, I tend to support the technically superior product as long as it's pragmatic enough.


Everything would be cheaper if we follow the worlds lead and stick to one format.

From everything I've read, it seems that the situation worldwide is at least as convoluted as that of the US market--there is no lead for anyone to follow (as with just about everything). In the end, unless the studios and CE manufacturers agree to support a single format, we may end up with each market being dominated individually by one or the other. :(


BD has problems, they can't even get interactive going,meanwhile Microsofts IHD has been working just fine.
Lets face it, they(powers that be) WANT Interactivity, so that BD/Java based system is lacking right now.

I'd take any format that supplies high quality HD video and audio, and won't become derelict within a year or two. Additionally, the faster it can start playing when I press "Play" the better, and the more space it can use for encoding A/V the better. Everything else is just window dressing, in my opinion.


HD DVD makes it affordable to the masses, BD doesn't,but BD has more studios..... we'll see how many studios defect when HD DVD becomes $200....

I believe that most studios--including Warner Brothers :eek:--have been releasing at least some titles on both formats of late. If this trend continues, then consumers will have more of a say in which format will win out, although it won't necessarily be "the masses" to any large extent because HD is mostly off their radar.


That will put a BIG damper on the price gougers known as BD, and don't think the studios involved, won't be paying attention.

Well, they'll just have to reduce their prices, then. Another way to look at this, in terms of the software, is that both formats will charge the consumer whatever they feel the market will bear, but the HD-DVD format is cheaper to implement, which means more profit for them and less capability for us. Remember that every studio is looking out for themselves only--those who favored Blu-ray believed that they had to offer more to the consumer to get their attention, while those who favored HD-DVD believed that they had enough storage capacity and wanted to minimize costs and thereby maximize profits. For better or worse, both sides are partially correct at this point: HD-DVD does have enough capacity to offer high quality, but consumers are still not taking enough notice to make either format a runaway success. It remains to be seen which basic strategy will survive in the end, and both sides still have "cards" to play.


does anyone remember when the blu-ray and hd-dvd parties were considering joining forces to incorporate the best of both formats, but then they got greedy and decided to scrap the talks of helping each other and continued on producing two separate formats that would end up making one side more money than the other?

I don't think that the best of both formats was ever a realistic option. Sony had a lot invested in their physical storage medium, while the HD-DVD camp was devoted to taking a more conservative approach that allowed an easier and less expensive transition from DVD to HD-DVD manufacturing. If Sony had relented, as they had with the DVD format previously, then they would probably have been given a few "scraps" just like the last time (namely the eight-to-sixteen modulation and the enhanced Reed-Solomon product error correction code). With more advanced technology (whether or not it's "better" or more cost-effective) and more studios on their side regarding HD, it's hardly surprising that the Sony camp chose not to relent this time around (neither did the Toshiba camp).


I don't buy into that angle. it's about me not them. I'm too selfish to care about them.

That's probably the only valid attitude to have in this case. :)


Besides, if it's cuz you hate sony, then that means you support microsoft and toshiba, or vice versa. There alot of so called negative reasons on both sides. Microsoft is a monopoly and all that tired jazz,

I have to be honest and admit that I'm a bit biased myself, being a computer programmer who has used Microsoft's operating systems and software very intensively for the past 20 years or so. Let's put it this way: Sony's TVs are the only thing I like about them, but that's exactly one more thing than I like about Microsoft....


and toshiba, I cant' remeber the accusations, but they were involved with something pretty bad, I think selling american military secrets to the russians or something.

Yep, and I haven't bought a thing from them since, although it's not really a huge consideration (you can always find dirty people just about everywhere). Like you, I'm looking out for myself--and the public in general by extension--first when it comes to this format war.