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curtis
01-22-2004, 10:40 AM
hey trekker,

Can you describe how you have all your components hooked up in relation to each other? I find that using the TV as the source is not very good. How does the system sound with DVDs or CDs?

-curtis

trekkerj
01-22-2004, 10:45 AM
I figured it would make everything sound a lot richer. Maybe my expectations were too high.

My High-Def channels with Dolby sound are pretty decent. DVDs are better, but not amazingly better. Perhaps because I don't blast them I don't hear as much of a difference.

CDs sound normal, nothing special. Unfortunately, my receiver doesn't have a mode that utilizes the surround speakers very well for CDs. It puts almost everything in the front.

What about my components did you want to know?

Thanks.

EngenZerO
01-22-2004, 10:53 AM
have you calibrated your system? try plugging in your old speakers again...and compare different parts from movies/music.



[he_who_dares_wins] - sas

trekkerj
01-22-2004, 11:06 AM
I'm not saying there's no difference. I can hear it when switching centers, no doubt. Maybe I haven't sampled enough material yet?

Yes, I calibrated it using Avia and a RS analog SPL meter.

curtis
01-22-2004, 11:34 AM
So your hi-def tuner is hooked up via digital to the Pioneer?

I guess we should ask what your previous speakers are.

-curtis

azanon
01-22-2004, 11:46 AM
Trek,

You might wanna try a/bing your old speakers, and make sure and use a challenging CD for comparison; that way the switch is almost instant, instead of having to go on memory. My upgrade was from Advents, with the total set including sub, at a value of $400 dollars purchased 12 years ago.

Some great Vocals from Josh Groban would be a great idea! The first CD i tried when i hooked up my Ascends was Groban's "Closer" album. Honest to god, I cried a little at the end when Josh belted the end vocals through that 340, from the song "Remember when it rained". BTW, that album is #1 now, and Josh is performing at the pregame of the Superbowl this Feb 1!

Ok where was I......

I have tried the 170s with the sub off, and i'll admit I feel they're lacking under that scenario as well. Perhaps im a hard judge like you, but i'm being quite frank when i say i'd be dissatisfied with 170s minus a sub. So from that standpoint, I have to agree with your assessment. However, I am surprised they are not beating a complete set of 100 dollar value jensens!

On regular TV shows, i often can't tell the difference either. I sometimes notice the quality of them on some well done commercials however, and i always notice the difference on Dolby Digital movies from HBO.

trekkerj
01-22-2004, 12:03 PM
My main problem is I can't get away with deep bass because it goes right through the floor and I don't want to disturb the neighbors. I am happy enough with the bass coming out of the Ascends.

Everything is a digital audio hookup except my tivo.

Maybe the Super Bowl in 5.1 audio will be a good test.

My previous speakers are the Jensen JHT-805 set. I don't feel like getting an A-B switch just to prove that the new speakers sound better. I know they do. Maybe a good sub WOULD bring it all together, but it's pointless to buy one when you live in an apartment.

tomes
01-22-2004, 12:31 PM
what do you mean by ultra cheap wire? I would recommend you get some 12 or 14 GA generic wire from Home Depot or Parts Express if you are running with very thin wires.

What model is the receiver? cheaper receivers use lower quality dac's which to some degree puts out worse quality sound.

trekkerj
01-22-2004, 12:40 PM
Circuit City basically had Monster wire and standard wire. I went the cheap route. I'm not sure what gauge it is, but it's not tremendously thick, probably not that low. Does it really make that much difference?

My receiver is the Pioneer VSX-D509S. But I've been told that the receiver doesn't make as much of a difference as the speaker type and wire used.

curtis
01-22-2004, 12:46 PM
how are the speakers situated...on shelves or stands? how high? If on shelves, are the flush with the front of the shelves?

-curtis

JohnnyCasaba
01-22-2004, 03:03 PM
Trekkerj,

I really think your problems may be from your receiver. DF thought as much with your previous post about crackling and the center channel. My step son has that same receiver in his bedroom setup, powering some small H/K sats. If I can, maybe I will take my 170's up to see how they sound. While Pioneer claims a 100 wpc, I really have a hard time believing it, the thing weighs about 18 lbs. If you are not doing so already, maybe you should set the speakers to small and cross over to 100hz.

trekkerj
01-22-2004, 09:16 PM
Johnny, I would REALLY appreciate it if you could try the speakers on the Pioneer. Also, I have the speakers set to LARGE to eliminate the need for the subwoofer. I thought these speakers could handle the extra bass. Why do you recommend "small?"

Curtis, here is how the speakers are set up. The center is on top of the tv. The rest are on stands. The Fronts are on smaller stands, slightly below ear level when sitting (a couple feet off the ground). The rears are at ear level. My couch is right near my back wall, with just enough walking space behind them. The speakers are behind and adjacent to the couch, situated so that they are facing one another.

EngenZerO
01-22-2004, 10:11 PM
Like I mentioned earlier when I purchased my Ascends I had them running through a cheap $145 Pioneer Reciever VSX-412S. I defintly could tell upgrade. The Ascends had clearer vocals and a wider sound stage. The Pioneer did an O.K. job with driving these speakers, I couldn't push as hard or as loud, but it was decent.

When I upgraded to my H/K I defintly heard many acoustics differences. Stronger midragne, less bright vocals, and deeper bass from my SVS.

As mentioned earlier try setting your speakers to small and cross @ 100. I would also try getting your fronts @ ear level or slighly above.

[he_who_dares_wins] - sas

Quinn
01-22-2004, 10:21 PM
I'd try it with your sub and see if it makes a difference. Just keep the sub volume on the low side. In your(and my) system $500 worth of cables isn't going to make a difference. Throwing out the free I/Cs and getting some 14ga or thicker wire will. But don't spend over about $20 per I/C something along the lines of the Radio Shack gold line. Here is something from audiogon by a cable maker about this-

01-20-04: Sedona_sky_sound
For the "typical" $1800 system, the difference between good quality and great quality cables will be very, very small. I am an audio retailer and cable manufacturer and have thus tried my cables on an extensive number of systems.

On most "budget" real-world systems, the difference between zip cord and my cables is audible but not usually drastic. When comparing something like Monster cable and mine (or any other high-end cable for that matter), the difference is extremely small. However, in most cases people end up buying my cable anyway just because mine are better made and not too much more expensive.

At about the $4000 level (i.e., $2000 integrated amp plus $2000 speakers), the difference cables can makes starts to become obvious. The electronics/speakers are now resolving enough to get into the zone that cables effect. At this level, Monster Cable just can't cut it anymore.

For the really high-end, dedicated systems (like in my custom designed demo room), cables can become extremely important. I have done experiments where I have had my wife switch out cables without me knowing what she did. With my eyes closed the entire time, 90%+ of the time I can tell exactly which cable she switched to.

The end result is that you shouldn't have to worry that much which cables/interconnects you get. Any well constructed cable will do you just fine. Even the better constructed cables at Radio Shack are more than good enough for 90% of the systems in homes today. Your room and speaker placement will likely have an order of magnitude greater influence on the sound than the cables.

Best of luck.

Julian
Sedona_sky_sound (Answers)



In our level of systems the receiver is going to have the biggest effect. Maybe take a pair of the 170s to a dealer and listen to other receivers with them.

trekkerj
01-22-2004, 11:14 PM
Right now, I probably have 18-gauge wire. All the connections are being made with the bare wire.

On the receiver, I see spring loaded connectors for the surrounds, and I think there are binding posts for the center and fronts.

It is worthwhile to get a better gauge wire (Monster?) and banana plugs for the front speakers?

My friend has a spare Sony receiver. Not high end, but maybe one day I can get it and hook up the speakers and see if there's any difference.

I also think my speaker placement is OK, but I can't really put them anywhere else in the room. Perhaps when I get home I can snap a couple of pictures of the room with my digital camera and you can see what the setup is like and offer any advice on what I can do to improve things, if any. Thanks again.

JohnnyCasaba
01-23-2004, 12:30 AM
I recommended small and the 100 hz x-over (the lowest setting on your AVR) to take some stress off the amps in the Pioneer. I'll let you know what happens with my switch when I get a chance.

trekkerj
01-23-2004, 12:33 AM
Thanks. It seems to be able to handle "large" and this way I don't even need the sub. However, I'll try both ways and see which sounds better.

Quinn
01-23-2004, 12:41 AM
I'd pick up some 14ga zip cord at your local home improvement store or Radio Shack. Monster is fine just overpriced.

december11
01-23-2004, 02:04 AM
If you've got a $250 Pioneer receiver, you probably want to start there.
Go pick up an HK 430 or 630 from Circuit City, just for testing purposes.
You can always return if it doesn't make a difference.

It should however make a HUGE difference in sound. I had a $200 Sony receiver before, so I went through the same thing you did.

Also, Home Depot 14 and 12 Guage speaker wire is SUPER cheap. Like 30 cents a foot.

trekkerj
01-23-2004, 02:11 AM
Will this all really make a huge difference at normal volume levels. I usually listen under 70db (I know that now that I have my sound meter!).

The Pioneer is about a $175 receiver today. If a new receiver and better wire will make a huge difference (if that is the consensus here), then maybe I should start auditioning some better ones.

Probably in the $500 range....what else complements the Ascends nicely?

december11
01-23-2004, 02:35 AM
It will absolutely make a difference, even at lower volumes.
Even at low volumes, the music will be cleaner , punchier...just overall sweeter. Especially with an HK, it gives a warmer tone than other receivers in the price range.

I think that is a common misconception. I also used to think that I didn't need a better receiver since I never listen at higher volumes anyway. It's all about clarity and quailty of sound, not volume.
Clarity and quality can be heard at any volume.

Look at the HK 430 or 630.
You can also look into the NAD receivers. The T752 or T762 are both being sold a great prices since they are last year's models.

trekkerj
01-23-2004, 02:53 AM
Those seem a tad expensive for my taste.

What about the Onkyo TX-SR601? Any opinion on that with Ascends?

HK AVR230? No learning remote, but I've seen good reviews. Anyone using either of these with Ascends?

Quinn
01-23-2004, 04:10 AM
If your trying receivers out check out the Panasonic digital receivers. The XR-45 is $300 from jandr. You can find huge threads on these Pannys at avs, htf, audiocircle, audiogon, etc, etc.

JohnnyCasaba
01-23-2004, 04:53 AM
I have heard my 170's at someone's place powered by the Onkyo 600, sounded nice. But at the Circuit City listening to the H/K's and Onkyo's, I liked the sound of the H/K's the best. You need to listen for yourself. Maybe you can find a good deal on last years H/K's (325,525) at CC. Sixth Avenue is also in your area right?

december11
01-23-2004, 05:23 AM
Go to Circuit City, you should be able to pick up an open box deal on last year's HK 525 or 325 like the previous poster suggested.

The sound from the HK will be much fuller and warmer than an Onkyo.
I believe the HK's use a high current amplifier.

trekkerj
01-23-2004, 06:03 AM
Ok, i'll head over there next week and see what they have. 6th ave is also right nearby, maybe they'll have some of those setup so I can listen to the difference. Maybe I'll try some better wire first if I don't see any good deals right away.

Here is my home theater setup. Anything I can do to improve speaker placements?

http://warp.core.binghamton.edu/~trekker/ht1.JPG
http://warp.core.binghamton.edu/~trekker/ht2.JPG
http://warp.core.binghamton.edu/~trekker/ht3.JPG

Quinn
01-23-2004, 06:36 AM
Put your fronts on the stands you'er using for the rears and see what that sounds like. The tweeter ideally is even with your ear. Those short stands aren't getting you there. Also try cheating your center out an inch or two in front of the tv. You can push the CC back when not watching anything for looks.

curtis
01-23-2004, 06:40 AM
I second Quinn's thoughts. The tweeters for the front should be at about ear level when seated. I think Ascend recommends 28" to 31". And the Dolby spec for rears is 2-3 feet about ear level.

-curtis

BradJudy
01-23-2004, 06:41 AM
Yeah - definitely get the height up if you can. The stands Ascend sells for the CBM-170s (which I own) are 30" tall IIRC.

BTW: jandr.com has the H/K 330 (current model) for $500. You can also get a refurb H/K 325 from H/K direct with warranty for $500 at Harmanaudio.com.

Quinn
01-23-2004, 06:46 AM
Brad is right I just measured 30" tall on the Ascend stands. Curtis is right the surrounds should be 2-3 feet above your ears.

Edit- You may be able to use those shorty stands for the surrounds temporarily if you face the speaker straight up at the ceiling. Be sure the port isn't blocked

curtis
01-23-2004, 07:07 AM
I think onecall.com has the HK 330 and HK 325 a little cheaper than the prices Brad listed....worth a look. Also worth giving Ascend a call and see what kind of deal they have.

-curtis

december11
01-23-2004, 07:57 AM
yup, stands too low on the fronts. Get higher stands.

trekkerj
01-23-2004, 08:16 AM
OK, now I am using the rear stands up front, which improves the front sound field a bit.

The rears are on the smaller ones facing up, which I don't like. Needed to recalibrate and raise the volume of them a bit.

Those Ascend stands look ideal for front and surround, but $100 a pair? Isn't that on the expensive side?

Quinn
01-23-2004, 10:08 AM
Will those short stands go on your end tables?

trekkerj
01-23-2004, 10:17 AM
No, nowhere near enough room.

I like the 3 foot stands in the front. Circuit City has adjustable bookshelf stands for $79 a pair which I will pick up.

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.jsp?c=1&b=g&catoid=-9797&qp=0368737143693&oid=69314

While there, I'll see if they have any good open box deals on receivers. If the return policy is good, maybe I'll pick that up also. I'll report back, thanks for the help everyone. Never expected so many responses. :)

JohnnyCasaba
01-23-2004, 12:46 PM
Trekkerj,

I was only able to do a really quick listen with 2 170's on the Pioneer, speakers were set to small and crossed over at 100hz, and I even used the same cheap speaker wire that came with the H/K sats. Could not get wild with the volume because someone was sleeping, and keep in mind this is a small room, but thought things sounded fine. I don't know if this has been asked already, but how do you have your DVD player hooked up to the AVR? With the analog or digital connections? Do you have the DRC option on in the AVR?

trekkerj
01-23-2004, 01:05 PM
Everything is a digital connection to the AVR. DRC is set to min, but I've tried all the settings. Now that you've tried it with the Pioneer, i'm not sure what to think. Perhaps my expectations were too high...

JohnnyCasaba
01-23-2004, 01:21 PM
Ok I just checked, as for the DRC, the only options are Mid, Max and off. Check again and see if you do have it off. If you are using a Coax Digital connection, are you using a proper 75ohm cable?

trekkerj
01-23-2004, 01:34 PM
All the cables are fine. I like to turn on DRC at night to keep the volume fluctuations down. It doesn't have an effect on the sound quality. There's no 'warmth' to the sound, or at least, not as much as I anticipated. If I can get a good deal on a receiver at CC (and it's returnable) then I might give it a try just to see what happens.

JohnnyCasaba
01-23-2004, 01:41 PM
Maybe your expectations were to high. I know with the pics you posted, and it has already been said, the stands you had up front are to small. But it also looks (not really sure) like your surrounds are right up against the wall, since the 170's are ported, they really should not be placed right up against the wall. Maybe the 200's would be a better option for you.

Trying to help, out of options at this point. Maybe give a new AVR a try, as long as you can return it for a full refund, worth a shot.

JohnnyCasaba
01-23-2004, 02:10 PM
If there is not enough warmth for you, maybe the Ascends are not the right speaker for you. Maybe you should try a pair of the Rocket 150's or 250's to compare with the 170's.

curtis
01-23-2004, 02:14 PM
Johnny is right. May be time to listen to other speakers. Are you still in your 30 day window? The CBM-170 is pretty neutral...might not be to your taste. Have you gone to some shops to listen to other speakers?

-curtis

trekkerj
01-23-2004, 11:24 PM
I thought ported speakers sound better near walls? If not, where would you say I should place them based on what you saw. How far away from a wall should they be?

I think my main problem is that I've been watching too much TV, and not enough DVDs. Certain channels sound very nice, others are crap. I get digital music channels through cable, and they sound amazing. I never tried those before. My CDs sounded normal, nothing special. I don't think my receiver has a good DSP mode for CDs. Nothing that uses the rear speakers very much anyway.

So is the consensus now that a receiver upgrade from a $200 Pioneer to a $500 HK not going to make a noticeable difference?

Quinn
01-24-2004, 01:17 AM
I think the receiver upgrade will make a difference. On your speaker stands can you use wall mount brackets for the surrounds and your present stands for the fronts?

curtis
01-24-2004, 01:33 AM
Rear ported speakers need space between the port and the wall to breath.....too close and they may sound boomy. And you really do not want any speaker close to a side wall.

-curtis

JohnnyCasaba
01-24-2004, 01:47 AM
I am no expert, but for the surrounds I would try to get some room between the rear port and the wall. I believe the Ascend manual recommends 1 - 2 feet placement from the back wall. I know we all have to make compromises when trying to place our speakers (well those of use without a dedicated room), I have my rears on 30 inch stands. I believe placing a rear ported speaker closer to the wall will help reinforce some of the bass response, but at the risk of boominess.

I would say try a new receiver (as long as you can return it), after all the only person who can tell if it would make a difference is you. You said you were looking for warmth, I would not describe the Ascends as a warm speaker, like Curtis, I would say neutral.

What kind of music do you listen to?

trekkerj
01-24-2004, 03:01 AM
When I say warm, I really have no idea what I'm talking about. :)

I don't listen to a lot of music via the receiver. I mostly listen to mp3s on the computer, so music isn't that important. Although, as I said, the digital music choice channels sound really good.

I am heading to CC right now. Probably won't get a receiver unless there is a really good deal. I am picking up adjustable height rear speaker stands so I can put the rears above ear level. I'll place them as far from the wall as possible, but there's probably only a foot or so to spare, as you can see.

JohnnyCasaba
01-24-2004, 04:10 AM
I reread some of your posts, just some random thoughts:

Sounds like you want to use this system mainly for TV and DVD's, if so, I think you should hook up your sub if you have not done so already. To really enjoy most of the good movie soundtracks, you will need a sub. I think with music on the 170's, you would want a sub too!

I do find it odd that you don't think there is much difference in the sound of your CD's, but you seem to enjoy the sound of the digital music channels. I also have the digital music channels, in my area they are broadcast in DD 2 channel, while nice, I find the sound compressed when compared to my CD's.

You also seem to want to listen to your 2 channel music in a surround format, but as you pointed out, I believe the Pioneer you have only has DPL. If you do bring home a new receiver, check out some of the newer DSP's like PL2 and DTS Neo 6.

Another good sugestion that was already mentioned, give the Ascends a few days, try to listen as much as you can. Then swap in your old speakers and do some comparisons.

Quinn
01-24-2004, 04:49 AM
what rate are you ripping your mp3s at? Do you have the computer thru your receiver?

trekkerj
01-25-2004, 03:56 AM
I now have new speaker stands and everything is positioned as best as possible.

One oddity...I notice the speakers sound better if I get closer to them. They are calibrated, btw. When I am sitting on my couch, it seems to lack something. Granted, my sub is turned down to avoid the disturbance to my neighbors.

One side of my room has a wall and windows, while the other side is open. Does this take away from the sound quality I am hearing on the couch (not that there's anything I can do about it).

BradJudy
01-25-2004, 04:33 AM
Are you angling the speakers inward? If so, it might be too much if they sound better closer.

BTW: I have a wall on the left and not on the right and don't think it causes problems.

trekkerj
01-25-2004, 05:47 AM
The fronts are angled a bit to face the position that I am sitting in. The center sounds better the closer I go also.

curtis
01-25-2004, 05:56 AM
the 340c should have some space behind it for the big port to breath. It should also be at least flush with the front of the TV, or even a bit in front of it. Some folks also angle down toward the listening area.

-curtis

Budman
01-25-2004, 02:59 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by BradJudy

You can also get a refurb H/K 325 from H/K direct with warranty for $500 at Harmanaudio.com<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Harmon Audio also sells refurb units w/ full warrantee's via ebay. Ebay market price for an AVR-525 seems to be about $480 plus $35 shipping

Brian

Edit
Brand new AVR-525's are available from Onecall for $606.12 shipped.

trekkerj
01-26-2004, 10:22 AM
OK, now I'm hearing a very high-pitched squeaking noise during certain vocals. Seems to be coming from the center speaker. What could this be?

BradJudy
01-26-2004, 10:46 AM
Does it only occur when the volume is really loud? Does it only occur with certain pieces of music?

davef
01-26-2004, 10:54 AM
Hi Trekkerj,

I have been following this thread closely... You have been given some excellent advice.

A few things, please keep in mind that our loudspeakers very accurately reproduce the signal that is being sent to them. If you are hearing strange sounds, these sounds are being sent to the speaker and simply being reproduced.

TV signals, or recorded TV audio onto DVD, are some of the worst and noisiest audio signals available. The signal itself is bandwidth limited and there is very little (if any) information below 100hz. You might have sensed more "richness" and "warmth" (all terms relating to bass) with your HTiB Jensen system simply because these systems generally have such poor sound quality that in order sound OK, they artificially boost the lower frequencies (usually at 60hz). This gives the sense of warmth.

Also, I noticed now that you have the Jensen subwoofer connected to the system. Can you please let me know how this is hooked up? Are you using the subwoofer output of your receiver into the subwoofer or are you using speaker cables? This is important as the subwoofer most likely has a built in High-pass filter designed for use with the diminutive front and rear Jensen speakers. You might actually be filtering a large amount of midbass out of the CBM-170 speakers by using this subwoofer.

Hope to hear from you soon!


Good Sound To You!

David Fabrikant
www.ascendacoustics.com

trekkerj
01-26-2004, 11:01 AM
My sub is hooked up via an RCA cable to the subwoofer output on the receiver.

As for the noises, so far they've all been TV sources. Darn tv audio. Even CBS digital, I get clipping from that sometimes. Only movie dvds seems to be 'clean'.

trekkerj
01-28-2004, 01:35 AM
So, is this subwoofer setup ok? Keep in mind that I have it turned down to about 1/3 volume because of the neighbor factor. I have my receiver set for 'small' speakers, and a 100Hz crossover (that's the lowest the Pioneer allows).

curtis
01-28-2004, 01:50 AM
trekkerj,

That should be fine.

Is the sub calibrated with the rest of the sstem?

-curtis

davef
01-29-2004, 11:24 AM
HI Trekkerj,

Your setup seems fine..

Are you using digital cable or analog cable, or satellite? How do you have the converter box connected to your receiver?

It is possible that your are "clipping" the preamp stages of your receiver. This can happen if the audio outputs of either your TV or converter box (depending on which is connected to the reciever), are too high.

Are the audio outputs of the converter box or TV fixed or variable?

It is also possible that you have a bad converter. Perhaps a call into your cable provider is necessary? BTW, which provider?

Please keep me updated!


Good Sound To You!

David Fabrikant
www.ascendacoustics.com

trekkerj
01-29-2004, 11:35 AM
I am using a digital coaxial audio output from a Scientific Atlanta 4200HD digital cable box (Cablevision). This clipping, I believe is the source material. It happens on tv shows, some on analog stations, some on digital. It never happens on a movie channel with 5.1 audio.

trekkerj
02-01-2004, 11:46 AM
OK, back to the "very high-pitched squeaking noise during certain vocals" I was mentioning. I heard it during the Super Bowl as well, especially when Greg Gumbel was talking. My guests didn't notice anything, but I have pretty good hearing. It was bothering me. Is it TV audio, or is this possibly the doing of my low-end receiver?

curtis
02-01-2004, 12:07 PM
It could be either. But my guess is TV audio.

-curtis

trekkerj
02-01-2004, 12:20 PM
But this was a Dolby 5.1 audio broadcast. Don't they have audio engineers to check proper levels? Just seemed like too much high frequency background noise in there.

curtis
02-01-2004, 12:32 PM
did you receive it in DD5.1? Did your receiver decode it as DD5.1?

-curtis

trekkerj
02-01-2004, 01:37 PM
Yes, there was nothing wrong with the 5.1. I am just mentioning that to point out that it wasn't some crappy analog PCM audio. This was Dolby Digital, and yet I still heard very high freq. sounds during some vocals.

curtis
02-01-2004, 02:45 PM
In that case, try swapping out the Comcast box. By the way...PCM is digital. So all audio goes through the digital connection from the Comcast box to the receiver, and that box is not hooked into the receiver via analog connections at all? You hear this sort of sound from other programming, but not DVD?

My DirecTiVo box is connected to my receiver via digital only....and I have no issues like that....even on regular TV shows the sound is good.

-curtis

trekkerj
02-01-2004, 09:13 PM
Correct, the only connection from the cable box to the receiver is via the digital connection. Actually, due to a problem with my receiver and the box, I am having to use a coax to optical converter as well.

Even thought the PCM is digital, it is coming from an analog source and converted to digital. I get much worse sound quality on the analog channels.

Derek
02-01-2004, 11:09 PM
Have you tried adjusting the audio level on the cable box? I know all of my sa boxes (2000, 3100hd and 3250hd) have the ability to adjust the volume, but I change that setting from variable to fixed.

curtis
02-01-2004, 11:35 PM
Derek....great thought!

-curtis

trekkerj
02-02-2004, 01:20 AM
The volume level only affects non-digital channels. CBS-HD is digital, and changing the volume has no effect on the box. Anyways, I have it set to "Fixed." Still doesn't explain the very high pitched sound.

Derek
02-02-2004, 01:22 AM
Just a thought. Too bad.

curtis
02-02-2004, 01:24 AM
OK...then I would go for a cable box swap.

-curtis

trekkerj
02-02-2004, 01:58 AM
I really don't think it's the cable box. Perhaps because the Dolby 2.0 or 5.1 broadcasts that I've heard the whining noise on were both live sports events, any imperfections were exploited by the speakers. Analog channels have terrible sound to begin with, which might mask out anything like that.

The S/N ratio of my receiver is pretty crappy also, maybe that has something to do with it. I was going to try an upgrade to an Onkyo or something like that in the coming week or so, and give it a trial run.

davef
02-02-2004, 11:54 AM
Trekkerj,

Try this... USE the analog outputs of the box into your receiver and let us know how it sounds.

Also, since you are using the digital out on your box, what decoding method are you using on the receiver? Is it auto sensing correctly?


Good Sound To You!

David Fabrikant
www.ascendacoustics.com

trekkerj
02-02-2004, 12:29 PM
The digital outputs are set up correctly. My receiver senses either PCM (and converts to Pro Logic), DD 2.0 or DD 5.1. I actually, have a set of analog outputs to the receiver which I can manually switch between. I wish I had thought to try that. Basically, I really only get this barely perceptable noise while watching sports on MSG Network (Knicks and Rangers games). There's another game on tomorrow night, I'll see if I can reproduce and switch inputs. Eventually, though, I think I AM going to take home a new receiver from CC and try it out. Many people at avsforum have said that going from my receiver to a $500 receiver will make a noticeable difference.

davef
02-02-2004, 12:44 PM
Trekkerj,

Yes... please make the change from digital to analog and let me know the results.

A new receiver could make a world of difference, might I publicly recommend the Harman Kardon AVR 330 or AVR 430 :)


Good Sound To You!

David Fabrikant
www.ascendacoustics.com

trekkerj
02-02-2004, 01:16 PM
I'll let you know.

Thanks for the unbiased recommendation. :)

Those are a bit out of my price range. I will probably try the Onkyo 601 and the HK 230 models first. The Onkyo has more component bandwidth for HD, which is a plus. We shall see. I am curious to hear the difference. I also want an SACD player. Not sure which to get first. Decisions, decisions. :)

trekkerj
02-03-2004, 08:38 AM
OK, game's on. I heard that high-pitched vibration during speech, switched to the analogs, a totally different set of outputs/inputs, and STILL heard it. I should note that the only two channels I heard it on are MSG and CBS during the Superbowl. The one things these have it common, MSG all the time, and the CBS only during the SB for some reason, is the volume level these channels are at compared to the rest of the channels. MSG is much lower, and I have to turn the receiver up about 10 db's more. CBS is fine, except during the super bowl, the audio was MUCH lower during gameplay, and I had to do the same thing. Is it possible that either my receiver or the speaker wire is having trouble with the load? It's only during someone talking, certain voices affect it more than others, and if I lower the volume a bit, I don't notice it (but why should I have to do that).

OK, actually, I'm still listening, they went from the annoucers on the court back to the studio, and now I can't hear it. Could this be from the network itself, in particular, the audio equipment the announcer is using? I've only got my receiver up to -28db, so I think it should be fine. Maybe I'm expecting too much out of a TV broadcast, even though it is DD 2.0.