newbie in need of help deciding on 340C vs. 170C

[psxndc]

Hey all - first time posting after poking around for a while. I've settled on Ascends for my first-ever-HT and need some help deciding between 4x170s with a 340 center or 5x170s. I will be mainly movie watching and gaming and do not expect to be listening to much music on the system. The ascend site says 5x170s are good for music while the 4x170s/340C is a great home theater AND music set up. I was ready to go for the latter when I stirred up a hornet's nest on the AVS forums regarding 3x170s on the front stage vs. 2x170for L/R and a 340 for center.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10654361&&#post10654361

(sorry if posting to another forum is frowned on)

My room is 11'x12' and given my likely use, what do people here recommend? And sorry in advance if this is a really dumb question, but is the 170 center different than a standard 170 laid on its side? The 340s are broken out on the site into center and mains, but the 170s aren't. Just confused.

Thanks in advance!

-p-

(Dave F, I sent an email to sales with the same question, just figured I'd post too in case anyone else had a similar question).

[Jonnyozero3]

Hey, just fyi - it may take Dave a bit longer to respond to you than normal...they are swamped with the new Sierra-1 release.

Anyhow, AFAIK, the 170 center is just a 170 turned on its side, while the 340c has a modified crossover to help make the sound more natural by countering the baffle effect of being placed on a tv, etc. Personally, the decisision really comes down to cost with some benefits, as you'll get more dynamic ability out of the 340. Your room isn't too big though, so a 170 should be fine, I would think.

Since this is your first HT, either choice is going to be very eye opening. I'll make a gentleman's bet right now that you will find yourself listening to more music than you expect to, and playing movies louder ;) So maybe the 340 would be a good idea...heh

[Dread Pirate Robert]

Hey all - first time posting after poking around for a while. I've settled on Ascends for my first-ever-HT and need some help deciding between 4x170s with a 340 center or 5x170s. I will be mainly movie watching and gaming and do not expect to be listening to much music on the system. The ascend site says 5x170s are good for music while the 4x170s/340C is a great home theater AND music set up.

The concept behind the first description is that the center channel in multi-channel music is seldom used much, and when it is used, the ideal would be to have identical speakers all around to help ensure a seamless soundstage and imaging. The concept behind the second description is that home theater, in contrast, places a relatively heavy load on the center speaker, which by and large it does, and therefore it would be a good idea to bump up the center's output capability if you can spare the cost and space. These concepts are, not surprisingly, valid, but do not apply equally to all cases.


I was ready to go for the latter when I stirred up a hornet's nest on the AVS forums regarding 3x170s on the front stage vs. 2x170for L/R and a 340 for center.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10654361&&#post10654361

Some valid arguments were made on both sides, I'd say. So far, I've not been much of a help, have I? ;)


My room is 11'x12' and given my likely use, what do people here recommend?

Well, in a room of that size (or even quite a bit larger), a 170 center should work out just fine unless you intend to watch movies at ear-bleeding levels. I use a 170 center in a much, much larger space (open floor plan :( ) at home theater reference level with some movies, and it hasn't had a problem keeping up (crossed over to the subwoofer at 80 Hz). The 340 may provide somewhat better dialogue intelligibility when it is reproducing particularly heavy center channel content, but if this hasn't been an issue in my HT, I don't imagine that it would be in an 11' x 12' room.


And sorry in advance if this is a really dumb question, but is the 170 center different than a standard 170 laid on its side?

It's identical except for the position of the company logo. In fact, because I have room for it, I use a vertically-oriented 170 center in order to perfectly match all of the speakers (Ascend is very accommodating with reasonable customizations such as this). In short, because output isn't really an issue even in my case (the 170 is no slouch--it'll go toe-to-toe with many dual-woofer center speakers), and I also listen to multi-channel music, I decided to avoid all of the potential issues of using different speakers (even if they are timbre-matched and intended to work with one another).

What this conundrum boils down to is whether you are more comfortable with the suggestions that the 170 is more than adequate for your HT room, or spending an additional $114 to ensure that you're not compromising or lacking in some way with regard to the most important channel in HT. I don't think there's a wrong answer here, but if you still can't decide, then flip a coin, and if your immediate reaction to the result is positive, then go with that, and if it's negative, then go the other way--seriously, when done right, this technique can often reveal what you're truly thinking. :)

[psxndc]

Thanks. I think I'd rather spend the extra $$$, go for the 340 for the center and not bother myself with "whatifs" since I expect this system to last for a long long time. Any problem with putting the 340 on the TV stand in front of the TV (meaning the back of the speaker will be in front of the TV)? Or do I have to build a shelf above the TV and put the 340 flush with the TV?

On top of that, if only I could figure out which sub I want.... the down-firing Hsu VTF-2 MK3 got better marks on avs than the front firing SVS PB10-NDS, but I'm afraid my neighbors will flip if I'm pumping bass into their apartment... And is the SB10 enough for the future or should I go with the SB12... decisions decisions. :confused:

Thanks for your advice. I'm going to pull the trigger on the ascend speakers, but anyone should feel free to make additional comments/suggestions.

Thanks!

-p-

[Dread Pirate Robert]

Thanks. I think I'd rather spend the extra $$$, go for the 340 for the center and not bother myself with "whatifs" since I expect this system to last for a long long time.

Along that line of reasoning, using 170s as surrounds as you're doing is also good for future-proofing your system. :cool: However, bear in mind that the 170 is rear-ported, and somewhat deep and heavy for surround speakers, so make sure that there is a feasible way for you to mount them.


Any problem with putting the 340 on the TV stand in front of the TV (meaning the back of the speaker will be in front of the TV)? Or do I have to build a shelf above the TV and put the 340 flush with the TV?

Well, you'll have to make sure that there is enough space between the rear port and the TV, which would mean that the speaker will be quite far in front of the TV. This shouldn't be a huge deal if you're sitting far enough away, I guess, but I'd personally suggest mounting it above and flush with the TV if possible.


On top of that, if only I could figure out which sub I want.... the down-firing Hsu VTF-2 MK3 got better marks on avs than the front firing SVS PB10-NDS, but I'm afraid my neighbors will flip if I'm pumping bass into their apartment...

Either way, you'll be pumping a lot of bass into their apartment. :) I don't know about you, but I'm VERY wary of disturbing neighbors, and if I lived in an apartment, I might try doing without a subwoofer at first just to see how that works out. In the long run, you'll want a sub, of course, and I imagine that you'll have even better options later (perhaps from Ascend?!), the way things have been going.


And is the SB10 enough for the future or should I go with the SB12... decisions decisions. :confused:

It depends on how large an HT room you intend to have in the future, as well as how loudly you intend to play movies. The PB10, for example, would typically be fine for most rooms that can be closed off, but large rooms (say, more than 3000 cubic feet) or rooms with large openings will likely require greater output.

[Quinn]

Guys stick to the generalities they've learned pretty hard on AVS. Try this link (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showpost.php?p=1367&postcount=10) for a post from Dave F. from about 4 years ago discussing properly designed MTM speakers.

[jsotelo]

Here’s my 2 cents

My room size isn't that much larger than yours and I originally wanted to go with 5 170se speakers. After speaking with Dave and I believe Jeremy, they convinced me to go with 3 CMT-340se in the front the HTM-200s in the rear.

Output was never a problem but size and use of space was. The 340’s are slimmer and fit better into my room while the HTM-200’s were both smaller than the 170se’s and sealed so I was able to inexpensively wall mount them. The WAF was huge on this setup and that played a large part.

IIRC, both of the guys at Ascend said the HTM-200 is about 80% of the 170 and for me that was good enough for surround work where they do sound awesome. The 170 would suffer some from being put up against a wall so that evens it up a little for my application. They really are closely matched in timbre and I enjoy the little 200’s I really think they are overlooked too often.