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jvillas
04-06-2007, 07:34 PM
Is the Ascend Owners thread on the AVS Speaker Forum, a support forum for Ascend owners? If it is, why are there 2?
I have only recently discovered this forum(AVS),maybe 5 or 6 weeks ago. Over this time I have read many threads on many different speakers and on many topics,most of which are not very interesting.

I have decided not to to become a member of this forum simply from the fear of being attacked or drawn into an argument by someone.

I understand that speaker sound quality is totally subjective,but I have seen a number of these dicussions start out reasonably well, then suddenly turn heated and personal,and get out of control.

There seems to be no administrative control when this happens.

There is a computor security forum that I frequent, It is closley monitored by administraters who will quickly jump in when people get off topic or personal.

When I first discovered this forum I was very excited. Wow a speaker forum just what I was looking for, quite extensive with speaker reps. and owner participation too. Now that excitement has gone, and a general disappointment has set in.

Can some recomend an alternative,preferably audio only?

BradJudy
04-06-2007, 08:06 PM
Audio forums in general sometimes get hot under the collar. This one (Ascend) stays pretty calm, but is also lower traffic. I don't usually look at the AVS speaker forum anymore, although a lot of their other sections are quite useful if you're looking for information on AV equipment.

For other audio forums, I like AudioCircle. It tends to be higher-end two-channel audio, but it's a decent forum. It has its share of heated discussions, but they have good moderators (all volunteers). It's also the official forum for several companies.

Home Theater Forum is another option, but the content isn't as good there IMO. It seems like mostly people answering newbie questions rather than interesting discussion.

Audio Asylum is a hard-core two-channel audio forum and it has plenty of heated discussion. It's a place to check out if you're interested in more "audiophile" stuff like $$$$ cables.

If you're into headphones, Head-Fi is one of my favorite audio forums - lots of interesting stuff, although they have a tendency to get wrapped up into a "flavor of the month" craze when new products are released or 'discovered'.

jvillas
04-06-2007, 08:31 PM
Thank you much for all your suggestions. The only one I am familiar with is headfi, as I use to frequent it when I was into computor sound. The others I am not familiar with. 2 channel sound is what interest me the most.Thanks again.

davef
04-07-2007, 02:52 PM
Hi jvillas,

I really don't know what has been going on at AVS lately. For years it was a nice place to visit.

Lately, each time Ascend is mentioned, my customers are attacked from all angles, this REALLY upsets me and I have done my very best to defend them, only then to have certain members directly throw mud at me.

It is a bit ridiculous, my products and performance criteria have directly changed the overall landscape for performance standards for ID loudspeakers -- the end result being better performing products for everyone, especially non-Ascend owners.

Thankfully, the products themselves aren't being attacked --- yet.

I would take Brad's advice or even try to spend more time here. I would love to have more traffic to our forum but as many people know, I am not much of a marketing person.

Definitely let us all know if you come across a new informative audio forum.

blindcat7
04-07-2007, 04:41 PM
I have been participating on and off of AVS Forum for a long time now. I ran into them when I was researching Denon recievers to get my first 5.1 reciever. It seemed a lot calmer then. Of course I was used to newsgroups like alt.video.dvd and rec.audio.opinion. I only recently returned to seriously reading and posting on it and noticed that it has become a lot more high temperature. One big trend I have noticed is that ID companies seem to go through phases there. At some point when people discover a good company and start discussing it enthusiastically, the trolls and bullies come out of the woodwork. Ascend has become very popular, and has apparently hit that critical mass that makes enthusiastic owners who want to discuss and reccomend them evil incarnate to that portion of the AVS population.

It is really depressing, AVS has a lot to offer and is full of helpful knowledgable people. Unfortunately, there are just so many that seem to get sick of reading the same reccomendations over and over and feel that they have to blast those who dare to bring up the brand in question that they are sick of reading about. The fact that nobody forces them to read every thread posted or that the popularity of these companies might say something about the quality of the products doesn't seem to cross their minds.

AV123 has been through this on AVS, so has Hsu. I guess it is Ascends turn. From my experience with this trend, it is annoying that this happens, but the fact that it has should be an honor to the companies that are targeted. It seems to happen most often to those who really shatter that bang for buck envelope and who treat their customers the best. Almost to the point that when I see a lot of naysayers and trolls bashing a particular company or those who own their products, especially when the flames come from particular individuals, I am inspired to go check the company out because there must be something really good about them.

Sad that such a great resource suffers from this problem, but at least most of the businesses that suffer this treatment have their own forums that are well moderated and where many of the best folks that hang out on AVS also participate.

Regards,

Chris

Just another of those pesky dedicated Ascend fanboys I guess

Gov
04-07-2007, 05:36 PM
AVS is the largest AV forum on the net (I believe). So, since it draws the most amount of people, you are going to get that certain aggressive group of individuals who relish the idea of bashing other members for whatever reason, just because.... For years my favorite HTF has been "The Home Theater Spot" Paul Carlton is the founder and he doesn't take any crap there. If you do not conduct yourself like a respectable human being, you get banned from there. He does not allow for any kind of personal attacks on people. The problem is, "The Spot" has lost a lot of members over the last two years, and it has become fairly quiet there. Not to mention, for whatever reason, Ascend is not spoken about much there :rolleyes: It is to bad AVS is not more strict on this. There is nothing wrong with civilized heated discussions on certain things, but AVS's moderators need to put a stop to a lot of stuff that continues to go on everyday there. I think the reason Ascend, AV123 and Axiom gets bashed at times, is because they have such a tremendous loyal following, almost cult like in ways. I see Emotiva becoming this way as well. Anyway, my two cents :D

MichaelG
04-07-2007, 07:07 PM
When I was looking for new speakers I read so many posts on AVS! It was the great comments and experiences shared by other Ascend owners that persuaded me to purchase them. No one had a bad thing to say even if they chose something else. And they were right! I have owned them for 10 months and can seldom pass a day without listening to music. Compare that to no music (except my truck)!

When I read AVS now it is full of attacks on many people. I find I have to scroll through a lot of stuff to find the gold. Still, I think it is important for people that have had great experiences to post there so the next seeker gets the same information that I did.

If you are looking for help with Ascends, this is the place. Everyone here is helpful and supportive including the owner. Its always a pleasure to read the posts here.

David handles the occasional attack on AVS with class. Makes me proud to be an owner. And how many products do you own that you can say that about!

Michael

Quinn
04-07-2007, 08:37 PM
The recent change at AVS comes from about 4 or 5 posters almost all of them B&M(brick and morter store) dealers/salesmen. I see it as a sign that ID(internet direct) sales are making more of an inroad into B&M sales than the the B&Ms are willing to admit. The dealers don't seem to be making any friends with their approach. I haven't seen them do much selling of the benefits of buying B&M only attacking the ID model.

An owner of one ID speaker company told me that they love those contentious threads as they see their site traffic jump from people seeing what all the ID hubbub is about.

jvillas
04-08-2007, 09:01 AM
The recent change at AVS comes from about 4 or 5 posters almost all of them B&M(brick and morter store) dealers/salesmen. I see it as a sign that ID(internet direct) sales are making more of an inroad into B&M sales than the the B&Ms are willing to admit. The dealers don't seem to be making any friends with their approach. I haven't seen them do much selling of the benefits of buying B&M only attacking the ID model.

An owner of one ID speaker company told me that they love those contentious threads as they see their site traffic jump from people seeing what all the ID hubbub is about.


It would be interesting to see any stats. I wonder just how much of an impact ID sales are having on B&M sales.

If I may add buying speakers from an ID provider was probably one of the scariest purchases I have ever made even with a very liberal return policy, which seemed like a hassle to me. I was so used to auditioning before buying,even if the selection may may have been limited. I simply felt more confident with my purchase.

I admit now having bought the 170's,that I have that confidence again. The 340's are to be a near future purchase.

That ID owner statement that was made to you I have a mixed feeling about. I guess if it leads to more sales thats cool, Could it also lead to adding more fuel to the fire?

drewface
04-08-2007, 09:36 AM
If I may add buying speakers from an ID provider was probably one of the scariest purchases I have ever made even with a very liberal return policy, which seemed like a hassle to me.
i agree. i had a very bad experience buying my receiver from an online dealer, so i got very nervous about ordering online. i found a great deal on my turntable online from Sweetwater.com, and decided to check things out from every angle before taking the plunge so i didn't have the same issues as i did with the turntable. the staff there were very kind and helpful with all of my questions, and when i made the purchase they even included candy in the shipping! (i think it's a little gimmick they have... sweetwater -> candy. i enjoyed it though)

this experience lead me to believe that online vendors could be great if the company is run right, and my experience with ascend has strengthened that belief a million times over.

i wish i knew of some smaller, privately owned B&M audio stores in the area, because i'd like to see how they compare to larger chains and all their marketing spin...

jvillas
04-08-2007, 10:38 AM
I must say that I did not purchase my 170's through Ascend I bought them used from a gentleman off Audiogon just a month ago. He claimed they were just 6 wks old, and were in perfect condition. I've found no reason to not believe him. His reason for selling was he wanted speakers that had a broader selection of finishes. Oddly enough he also owns a pair of PSB 25's, which I also own, and a pair of AV123 speakers, which he is busy modifying.


My decision to buy the 170's was based on reviews and visiting the Ascend Forum,especially the forum. Ascend owners seemed quite modest about there purchases. The lack of hype on this forum is refreshing.

Plus I like the fact that there were only 3 speakers to choose from,I see this as a plus. Signifies real serious focus,the a desire to get it right. The results to date are some excellent products.

JohnMichael
04-09-2007, 09:41 AM
AudioReview.com is a good site for all kinds of audio issues. AR is moderated so not too many personal attacks happen.

drewface
04-09-2007, 03:39 PM
AudioReview.com is a good site for all kinds of audio issues. AR is moderated so not too many personal attacks happen.i've never been on the forums there, but i do use their reviews section. in fact, i found ascend through audio review by looking through the lower priced speakers for great review scores!

it's a good site.

BOLTS
04-28-2007, 09:07 AM
I first heard of Ascend on the Audioholics forum. The company products have a good reputation over there and many threads comparing the merits of Ascend, SVS, Axiom, AV123 and others can be easily located. While all forums can be contentious at times, Audioholics has a pretty good mix of neophytes and accomplished audio/video enthusiasts.