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View Full Version : Anybody else think AVS has gone downhill?



curtis
08-19-2003, 04:09 AM
I think it is the folks that do not know a whole lot about subs/bass that are getting caught up in how low/loud a sub can get. The same thing is going on at HTF.

I am sure AVS/HTF are protecting ad revenue, as well. I have even heard that some boards have accepted "payoffs" to ban folks that dispute claims or post negatively about the payer's products.

I know John A. is very opinionated, but as long as you understand that, his posts are extremely informative. I have even gotten into it with him in regards to the CBM-170 vs. some NHT speakers....and referred him to the review that compared them to NHT's....only then did he give the CBM-170's a "they seem to be the real thing" out of him. And you know....it was an enjoyable exchange.

The bottomline.....free speech is one of the elements that makes this country what it is. I don't like censorship.


There is a lot of "noise" on AVS, just have to learn to filter it out. It is a shame

-curtis

Quinn
08-19-2003, 05:27 AM
It is AVS' loss to ban John Ashman. While annoying at times(most) he really is very knowledgable. I guess it means more of my on-line minutes for here, AudioAsylum, and audiocircle.

I recently got into it with him about The $ensible Sound review comparing the 170s with the $600pr NHT SB3s. He actually sent me a cordial PM afterwards.

curtis
08-19-2003, 05:33 AM
I actually like HTF a little more than AVS right now....less noise. Audiocircle looks good, AudioAsylum has some good reading, but tough to navigate.

You got into with him as well on that same review? Funny...what did he tell you?

-curtis

Quinn
08-19-2003, 07:44 AM
I don't know if this link will bring you straight to it or not. Unfortunately, John Ashman deleted all his posts on the thread. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=285947&perpage=20&pagenumber=3
If you read enough of the posts and the quotes from him in thoe posts he's pretty dismissive of The $ensible Sound.

Quinn
08-19-2003, 07:48 AM
BTW- Those who don't already know I'm Tex-amp on AVS and most other places.

ronrosa
08-19-2003, 08:46 AM
Being new to HT and AVS that thread was my 1st exposure to John Ashman.

He got me a little P.O.'d as it seemed (at least to me) that he was "selling" NHT and bad mouthing HSU. I sent him a personal message letting him know my opinions and gave him a link to an article that killed his latest argument. He pm'd back a little humble saying he could see my point of view. A few minutes later he deleted all his posts.

curtis
08-19-2003, 09:05 AM
I am pretty sure John likes grandstanding. His PM's are a much different tone than what he usually posts in the open.

I got PM from Ashman under a different name, telling me he got booted. I sent him a regular email saying I would get back to him later.

I sent David Bott a PM briefly stating my thoughts on John, and that I did not like censorship. He wrote back saying John had been sending him some pretty nasty email, one of which he had to send to his legal person. I just looked again for the PM from John's new alias...and that has been deleted.

Anybody remember John's email address?

-curtis

ronrosa
08-19-2003, 09:33 AM
try this
audiodsn@swcp.com

ronrosa
08-19-2003, 09:37 AM
Here's his company website

http://www.adnm.com/

Bighitter
08-19-2003, 10:12 AM
While John did get under my skin as well I dont feel he should have been banned for his actions in those threads. He was deffinately the type to grandstand and tout his favorite speakers "Numerous" advantages over other competitors, though we all tend to do this from time to time.

I am an SVS owner and fully recommend them to anyone who asks, that said I do not discount any of the other direct market subs as I am sure with the similiar business model they still offer a better bang for buck than a B&M model in the same or even close price range. This is one problem I saw from John's posts that I usually do not see from SVS or any of the other brand reps, I never saw him recommend other speakers along with his own. He is a very smart man but it appears he is WAY to biased to provide recommendations. I wish people would atleast concede there are going to be speakers out there just as good if not better than the ones they own, sell, have stock in or whatever.

That said, I think the biggest problem with AVS is there isnt a standard to the way things are treated which is a shame. John is banned but others are not or will not be.

curtis
08-19-2003, 11:08 AM
I think I read where John gave praise to a non-NHT speaker once or twice. :)

But Bighitter is right....there is no standard or guideline.

-curtis

Ben_Wood
08-19-2003, 12:03 PM
AVS isn't alone in the practice of banning folks for posting their opinions about products by sponsoring manufacturers. Do a search for "Barry Barnes" on HTF and you'll find one of the best (in my opinion) reviews on the Hsu VTF-3 sub. But unfortunately Ron of SVS took exception to some of Barry's observations and took a few shots at Barry and later in the thread even Dr. Hsu. Subsequently Barry was banned from HTF. I'm a Hsu owner, but I'll be the first to say that SVS makes a top notch sub. It all boils down to the forums look after their sponsors,sometimes at the expense of free speech. The sad thing is SVS is quality company, producing very well engineered and manufactured subwoofers, they don't need to be "protected" by AVS and HTF.

Quinn
08-19-2003, 12:39 PM
I agree with Curtis that John took a lot of pleasure out of stirring things up and challenging poeple.

curtis
08-19-2003, 01:04 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ben_Wood

AVS isn't alone in the practice of banning folks for posting their opinions about products by sponsering manufacturers. Do a search for "Barry Barnes" on HTF and you'll find one of the best (in my opinion) reviews on the Hsu VTF-3 sub. But unfortunately Ron of SVS took exception at some of Barry's observations and took a few shots at Barry and later in the thread even Dr. Hsu. Subsequently Barry was banned from HTF. I'm a Hsu owner, but I'll be the first to say that SVS makes a top notch sub. It all boils down to the forums look after their sponsors,sometimes at the expense of free speech. The sad thing is SVS is quality company, producing very well engineered and manufactured subwoofers, they don't need to be "protected" by AVS and HTF.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Oh yeah...Barry and Bob are famous! That review is still on AVS. I think I have a copy of it somewhere. But both those guys are banned from HTF....and there is a rumor that HTF was paid to ban at least one of them. Ofcourse, you guys know that RS and TV of SVS built their first sub together using some parts from Hsu. I DID A LOT of freaking research when I chose my sub. What it boiled down to for me was Hsu Research being so close to me...and Dr. Hsu being and engineer and MIT grad.

The SVS talk on the boards brings in a lot of traffic.

That is one of the advantages of DF/Ascend's low key approach. Let the product do the talking.

-curtis

Ben_Wood
08-19-2003, 10:29 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">BTW- Those who don't already know I'm Tex-amp on AVS and most other places <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Glad to know who one of our moderators is! (Of course, we all know the one and only Curtis!) Quinn, we've talked a few times on AVS but until you said you were also Tex-amp I assumed that you were "Chris Quinn", another Ascend owner on HTF. Its good to see folks from other boards that you've enjoyed talking to joining the Ascend forum.

Quinn
08-20-2003, 12:31 AM
Yep that is me on HTF since they require a first and last name. Since, just about every calls me Quinn I decide that is the way to go here. Your wording above makes it sound like I'm a moderator. I'm not just Cutis and Smokey are.

Ben_Wood
08-20-2003, 12:55 AM
Oops, I guess I'm just predicting the future. It wouldn't surprise me in the least for you to get that "promotion" as the Ascend Forum takes off!

tomes
08-20-2003, 04:56 AM
I also think there are way too many threads being removed, and people being banned on AVS, but it is still a good forum though. I have also found myself looking more and more in the HTF forum

curtis
08-20-2003, 05:38 AM
Quinn has been mysteriously quiet since this morning. Maybe his wife went into labor??

What bothers me most about AVS is the censorship, banning of people, and deleting threads/posts without explanation.

-curtis

Fastfwd
08-20-2003, 07:44 AM
I'm glad to see this thread. While I don't really read AVS very much I do visit HTF a great deal. I suspected that there was something very strange about all the SVS praise. When I first became interested in seeking opinions about a musical sub - a HTF member e-mailed me privately to recommend the Adire Rava and I thought that was a little scary. To me it just said that there was some kind of SVS mafia on HTF, but I didn't know what the scoop was. I'm sure they are really good subs, but the heavy handed approach distracts from the appeal for me in a major way. In fact, I'm disappointed to know that HTF is controlled in such a way. I suppose that I was being na´ve. I'll certainly keep it in mind when recommending the online forums in the future.

Quinn
08-20-2003, 08:34 AM
Not yet. Just busy today. I agree that you don't say anything about anyone's sub or tell people who own lower end Paradigms that there are better speakers availible for the money. Unless you just really want to be given a bad time.

tomes
08-21-2003, 01:51 AM
I would also say the speaker forum is much more affected than many of the other sections at AVS. I would think it is a combination of people/companies frequenting that particular forum, and perhaps the Mod is overly strict, compared to other mods?

curtis
08-21-2003, 10:34 AM
I think the mod has different rules for different people.

-curtis

ez-v
08-21-2003, 04:20 PM
Not sure if I think AVS has gone down hill per se.... While the recent program of more stringent (some would say selective enforcement) moderation has either voluntarily, as in the case of Mark Schifter of av123.com, or involuntarily, as in the case of John Ashman, removed from the AVS community some personalities which had previously been good sources of information, I think for a lot of people, particularly newbies, it remains a treasure trove of knowledge.

Now I will readily admit that my participation as well as frequenting of AVS forum has dropped precipitously... partially because I feel that without some of the stronger personalities that use to frequent AVS, the board isn't as interesting and I've already gleaned so much information from my time on AVS and other boards that not as many of the topics presented interest me as much as they use to.

Speaking of intersting sources of information, consider checking out this site:

www.audioperfectionist.com.

Fans of John Ashman will probably enjoy Richard Hardesty's similar shoot from the hip, ranting style as well. While I don't agree with him on a number of things, his journals and his rants on the "Watch Dog" section are interesting reads. The first two issues of his journal are free, and some of his system setup advice contained therein are very helpful. I ordered some of his other journals as well, but a logistical snafu has prevented me from getting it yet.