Anyone compare Ascends with Monitor Audio?

[badassfajita]

The S6 can be had for the same price as 340's right now--anyone do a comparison with this model or even the newer RS line? I'd be interested in hearing your impressions.

Thanks.

[curtis]

xcjago over at AVS has:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8323962&&#post8323962

You may want to PM him.

[Mike^S]

Hello! I'm xcjago on avsforums. Yes I have listened to the RS6 quite a bit. They are good speakers no doubt. In fact Robert J. Reina of Stereophile went so far to say "the flawless and exceptional Silver RS6 gave me more listening pleasure than any other loudspeaker I have reviewed for Stereophile." Although, I doubt he has ever heard the Ascend 340SE. :D

Here's something I posted a few weeks ago:

"The MA RS6 sound good. They are good speakers and they look nice. But they just didn't do it for me. On their own they have more bass than the 340SE but that's about it. To me the lower mid-range sounded a little too prominent. The highs also seem a little muted. Overall I liked them, but I don't think they would be any improvement (except a little deeper bass) then the 340SE. They retail for $1000/pair."

To me, the Ascend 340SE sounds more neutral and natural. They are extrememly well balanced. When listening to the RS6, I played some Alice in Chains Unplugged album, Norah Jones, and A Perfect Circle.

The RS6 do have some things going for them. They have a nice wood veneer and you don't need speaker stands for them. They will also do a little better down low if you don't have a sub.

[shane55]

I know this is OT, but since you brought up Robert J. Reina...

When checking out the Ascends a while back I compared them to a system that Reina praised. Obviously I kept the Ascends and I always wondered if I had actually heard the same speakers that he heard. Now you say you prefer the Ascends over the Monitor Audios that he also praised. I have read that review (I'm a longtime Stereophile subscriber) and wondered how the Monitor's actually sound and if I would feel the same way about them as I did with the others.

Strangely enough when I posted my opinion of those 'other' speakers I complained about their over emphasis of the lower-mids. Maybe this is a real turn-on for Reina. It is not for me, and at times was a real distraction.

Thanks for posting this as it mostly answers those nagging questions as well as confirms my choice of the 340's.:D

cheers

shane

[badassfajita]

I guess I'll answer my own question again! :)

Today I spent 3 hours comparing the 340SE vs Monitor Audio RS6 vs Boston VR2 vs PSB something or another towers. The receiver was a high end Marantz and an $1000+ cd player.

I honestly was expecting major differences across the board, but instead I walked away confused!

First - Boston VR2 vs 340SE

The Bostons had a slightly noticeable edge in the highest of frequencies and in the lowest of frequencies at moderate volumes. However, when turned up, the Boston turned slightly sibilant while the Ascends maintained their composure quite well. The sound quality from both sets in general was excellent though. One thing that bothers me about the Boston line was the center channel b/c it has 3 4 1/2 woofers, which has smaller drivers than the VR2, which has 2 6 1/2" drivers. But regardless, the VR2 did not have enough of a "difference" in sound quality than the ascends--both were forward, but the Bostons had a slightly more crisp top end.

Second - Monitor RS6 vs 340SE

The vocals on the RS6 were a notch more laid back than the 340s. The 340's tended to give the impression the singer was in front of you rather than all around you...this was both good and bad dependant on the song, as sometimes it was nice to hear the vocals up front, but other songs the RS6 seemed to have an advantage with a larger soundstage. The highs were also noticeably cleaner on the RS6 and I wanted to turn the volume up more. But overall, the differences were slight and I would be happy with either of the speakers.

Third - PSB Image T45 vs 340SE

On some songs, the sound was nearly identical (realize I had been listening for 2 hours at this point, so I was already confused!). On others, the vocals on the 340SE sounded cleaner and more "live." Especially in songs with a lot going on in terms of bass and treble, the vocals sounded slightly compressed on the PSB's. Overall a good speaker, but the 340SE was the clear winner here.

So at the end of the day, I took the Monitor RS6's home to listen for a few days and see how it sounds in my room, which has terrible acoustics because of walls and huge windows. I will be using a HK 635.

I must say that the Ascends held their own even against this competition. I would have loved to hear the VR3, but the price is too high for me to consider. I don't think you can go "wrong" with the 340's, Bostons or Monitor line--all three have excellent detail and midrange quality.

Will update again in a few days.

[Mike^S]

What do you mean the highs were cleaner on the RS6? I've never heard any distortion in the highs on my 340SE even at high volume. What was your source? What music/movie were you listening to?

[badassfajita]

When I said cleaner, I didn't mean the 340's were distorting at all. I think what it was simply perception b/c the vocals on the RS6's were not as forward as the 340SE. This was very obvious and is continuing as I listen at home in my room. If you listen to the RS6's alone, they sound great. If you listen to the 340SE alone they sound great as well. If you A-B them, it is clear that the midrange on the 340SE is more pronounced (could be that the RS6 is a bit laid back in the mids too)--this notion may be making the top end seem cleaner on the RS6. Also, the RS6 has a metal tweeter, which could be playing a role too.

I can't decide at the moment whether I prefer the more forward midrange of the 340's, or the better bass extension/top end of the RS6. Also, WAF is unfortunatley going to play a factor--the RS6 at only 33 inches tall has a small footprint and takes up less space than the 340 on a stand.

[Eddie]

BAF,

sounds like you were at Sara International, that's the only place in town that carries MA and PSB that I know of, didn't know they also carried Boston. If so, what did Aaron have to say about the Ascends? I think this would make you the second person to bring Ascends in there.

[badassfajita]

Yup---Sara International--good bunch of guys who are knowledgeable. Well, we didn't talk that much with Aaron about his impressions on the Ascends--he was in and out of the room as a lot as other customers were walking in. He did also mention I was the second person to bring in Ascends. Oddly enough, I found out I know the owner of the shop for like 20 years or so.

One of the other employees was listening with me comparing the Monitors and I think he was impressed that the 340's could hang with the floorstanders, as was I. This week is gonna be rough, as I gotta decide between the two sets as my return window with the 340's is ending.

[Eddie]

hmm, they must've added new staff because the 2 times I was there (over a year ago) Aaron was the only audio sales guy from what I could see. Genuinely nice guy, very knowledgeable.

I mentioned Ascend during the first visit but he said he hadn't heard of them. However he did report that one of his customers brought in "a whole system" of Axiom speakers and after listening to SI's speakers, sent them all back.

How much are the RS6s? I wonder if they are the same MA towers I was using there during my CDP shopping, I remember those being in the $1300-1500 range and despite a crisper punchier sound, they had a veiled midrange which really obscured the huge difference I heard when I did an AB of the Marantz CDP vs. my Sony ES player at home on my 340 classics.

[Quinn]

Some of what you are describing is the classic British sound. Which is to elevate the highs and low.

[Eddie]

Some of what you are describing is the classic British sound. Which is to elevate the highs and low.

funny thing is, the Wharfedale Diamond 8.2s that I borrowed from a friend of mine had really luscious mids. The extreme highs were a little sloppy at high volumes though, but I daresay its mids equalled or bettered my 340s!

Unfortunately those speakers are now very hard to find at the $150-200/pair price they used to go for.

[bikeman]

funny thing is, the Wharfedale Diamond 8.2s that I borrowed from a friend of mine had really luscious mids. The extreme highs were a little sloppy at high volumes though, but I daresay its mids equalled or bettered my 340s!

Unfortunately those speakers are now very hard to find at the $150-200/pair price they used to go for.

Were the 8.2's pre or post Wharfdale sale? To my ears, the sound changed dramatically when the new owners moved production to China. Mission was just bought by the same company that owns Wharfdale. I expect the same thing will happen to Mission's "British sound."
I just gave my son in law my old Mission speakers. He better take good care of em. The 340's replaced them and I didn't want them to go unused.

David

[badassfajita]

The Monitor RS6 has a MSRP of $1000--you might have listened to the RS8's which are $1500. Aaron said they typically sell the RS8 for around $1200ish or so.

You are definitely right about the midrange being more muted than the Ascends--the difference is obvious. For vocal intensive music like Norah Jones, the Ascends would be my clear choice. But the stuff I listen to is more high energy, dance, r&b, stuff where the additional bottom end and top end is noticeable. Even with both sets of speakers crossed over at 80hz, the RS6 has more thump than the 340's.

I keep on going back and forth and its driving me nuts!

[curtis]

Just out of curiosity, are you level matching the two sets of speakers and recalibrating the sub when you change speakers?

[curtis]

Here is the FR graph from Stereophile for the RS6. Looks to be pretty much what you are describing.

http://stereophile.com/images/archivesart/306MA6fig3.jpg

http://stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/306monitor/index3.html

[badassfajita]

Just out of curiosity, are you level matching the two sets of speakers and recalibrating the sub when you change speakers?

I do recalibrate the spkrs using the mic each time. Doesn't take more than 2-3 mins.

Since I have a hK 635, there are no speaker B inputs, so I write down my thoughts song by song--but the differences in bottom, mids and top end is fairly noticeable.

At the store, it was a quick A-B though without any level matching. I would manually turn down the volume about 1-2 db on the ascends to match the rs6. The 340's were slightly louder than the RS6 and the Bostons were a good deal louder than both.

[curtis]

I do recalibrate the spkrs using the mic each time. Doesn't take more than 2-3 mins.

Since I have a hK 635, there are no speaker B inputs, so I write down my thoughts song by song--but the differences in bottom, mids and top end is fairly noticeable.

At the store, it was a quick A-B though without any level matching. I would manually turn down the volume about 1-2 db on the ascends to match the rs6. The 340's were slightly louder than the RS6 and the Bostons were a good deal louder than both.
Great.

but the differences in bottom, mids and top end is fairly noticeable.
Yeah...after I saw the graph, I am sure the differences are very apparent.

[Quinn]

Great.


Yeah...after I saw the graph, I am sure the differences are very apparent.

Wow, is that the British sound!

[Eddie]

Were the 8.2's pre or post Wharfdale sale? To my ears, the sound changed dramatically when the new owners moved production to China. Mission was just bought by the same company that owns Wharfdale. I expect the same thing will happen to Mission's "British sound."

I dunno, when was Wharfedale sold? My friend bought his in late 2004 if I remember correctly.

So you think that as soon as speaker production gets shifted to China, they use different parts too? Hmm, I didn't consider that but I guess it makes sense for maximum cost-cutting purposes.

Reminds me, someone (maybe it was Quinn) quoting a local audio dealer saying something about how all the Chinese-made speakers have "breathy mids."

[Eddie]

You are definitely right about the midrange being more muted than the Ascends--the difference is obvious. For vocal intensive music like Norah Jones, the Ascends would be my clear choice. But the stuff I listen to is more high energy, dance, r&b, stuff where the additional bottom end and top end is noticeable. Even with both sets of speakers crossed over at 80hz, the RS6 has more thump than the 340's.

I keep on going back and forth and its driving me nuts!

If I were in your shoes I'd probably base the decision on what % of your usage will be music, because it does sound like the MAs match your tastes more.

On the other hand, some people report that this type of "lively" speaker can become fatiguing after a while.

What's the most hours you've spent listening to just the MAs? I don't know how long SI are letting you keep them, but what you might want to do is spend say at least 3-4 days listening ONLY to the MAs, then switch to the Ascends and see if your ears feel immediate relief or if they immediately miss the MAs. There is a school of thought that such long-period AB listening is more useful than constantly switching back and forth during one sitting.

[bikeman]

There is a school of thought that such long-period AB listening is more useful than constantly switching back and forth during one sitting.
It probably depends on the individual but long period AB listening is what works for me. Too many variables when doing quick AB listening for me to make "sound" judgements.

David

[Quinn]

I like to mix in some unfamiliar music for ABing. That way I don't have a preconceived idea and listen more to the differences between how speakers present the piece. Instead of does it sound like what I'm used to.

"Airy mids" was what the salesman kept saying regarding "Chinese" speakers. Keep in mind he was trying to bolster his products and denegrate the competition.

[badassfajita]

Thanks for the listening tips guys--well last night was a new revelation for me--I actually listened to the RS6's for the first time at a "normal" volume (not loud). Roughly -30db on my HK. Popped in the Best of U2 cd 1980-1990.

Bono...was in the background. It sucked. The bass was nice and the treble was nice but Bono was singing with his hand over his mouth. Now turning it up to -20 solved the problem--but just a few seconds more and I'm sure the wife would have starting yelling from a distance :).

Switched over to the 340's---Bono was back! I started playing with the crossovers to see if I could get more midbass out the spkrs--even tried 100hz for the sub and 60 hz for the speakers at the same time...improved a bit. But then, I moved the 340's out from their current position about 1 foot (for a total of about 2 feet or so from the back wall), and wow, it opened up insanely! Bass was better but the soundstage just grew 2x. Sounded just great.

I'm gonna listen some more today and make a decision by tomorrow morning hopefully. ALso gonna try to pick up the Boston VR2's to compare...

[Eddie]

yeah, the 340s do need a good 2 feet from the front wall. I once tried to have them about 6" from the wall for extra bass...bad idea!

I find that toe-in also helps a lot.

[SteveCallas]

Funny you mentioned toe in :) With the Bostons, I'd suggest using very little, if any, toe in. It doesn't really improve anything (I actually feel it's detrimental to the sound), and not toeing them in allows for a very wide soundstage. Whichever speakers you end up with, you'll be happy, as you took the time to compare, so you'll have the peace of mind knowing you picked the right ones.

[Eddie]

Funny you mentioned toe in :) With the Bostons, I'd suggest using very little, if any, toe in. It doesn't really improve anything (I actually feel it's detrimental to the sound), and not toeing them in allows for a very wide soundstage. Whichever speakers you end up with, you'll be happy, as you took the time to compare, so you'll have the peace of mind knowing you picked the right ones.

I would expect toeing in of a speaker like the Bostons to push them over the edge from "highly defined" to "painfully bright." Though to be fair I haven't heard any Boston speakers for at least 10 years, so maybe their current models are different...

[badassfajita]

Well the final verdict is in--I am keeping the 340SE's. I *finally* got the ezsetup on the 635 to tame the harshness of my room with the 340's and it sounds great now even turned up. And I finally got the sub to play with the 340's nicely. I hooked up the RS6's one last time just to make sure and while it too sounded great on some tracks, there were times where I wanted to hear the Ascends just b/c of the purity in the midrange. I knew exactly how the monitor's top end would sound too--almost like it has the same quality for every song I threw at it. In the end, both were great sets of speakers, but the Ascends won by a nose for me. The VR2 really didn't play into the decision that much b/c it was just too big of a tower for my living room aesthetically. The RS6 would have been fine and actually was the most preferable by far, as they look fantastic and are only 33" high and 7" wide. Now to find some modern, spiffy silver stands to compliment the 340's...

[Eddie]

Silver stands:

http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-bin/item/PLATF42S

[badassfajita]

Silver stands:

http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-bin/item/PLATF42S

Those stands are 42" tall! Need something around 24".

[DMD123]

I still need to demo the Ascends, but I did not like the MA's at all. The mids are very laid back and distant. The RS6 took me less than 2 minutes to decide I did not like it. The RS8 was a little better, it took me a little longer to not like it. The RS8 have a little more midbass so they fool your ears a little into liking them more.

Diana Krall-Live in Paris sounded good on the RS8's but classic rock like The Who sounded kind of strange with the lead vocals in the background with an all around sound instead of center image.

I'm looking forward to listening to the Ascends soon!