Bought a Sub

[bikeman]

With the introduction of the SE's, I'd decided to put my limited funds into the new 340's and forgo a new sub. That was until this morning. Woot posted this.

http://www.woot.com/

More info here.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5837820578&ru=http://search.ebay.com:80/5837820578_W0QQfrppZ50QQfsopZ1QQmaxrecordsreturned Z300QQfviZ1

With shipping, it came to $105. It looks like a definite step up from my Dayton 10".
Full report after delivery.

David

[curtis]

Very cool! Looking forward to reading your impressions.

[sensibull]

Full report after delivery.

But, by then it will be way too late to buy one at this ridiculous price. ;) I'm curious what confirmed its superiority to the Dayton for you -- just the upgrade in wattage? Looks like it doesn't go as low...

[Lou-the-dog]

Wow! That is cheap! Very tempting to pick one up out of curiosity. Worse case scenario I could pop out the woofer and have a nice little house for the cat. :D What is with the base...the sub is front firing isn't it?

Randy

[sensibull]

Well, fwiw, I just ordered one as well. I like the phase knob vs. the Dayton's 0-180 switch, I've heard front-firing drivers tend to last longer (no gravity pulling the driver down), and its a good deal heavier.

Thanks for the tip, David -- for both woot and the sub. I'd never been to woot before...

[bikeman]

But, by then it will be way too late to buy one at this ridiculous price. ;) I'm curious what confirmed its superiority to the Dayton for you -- just the upgrade in wattage? Looks like it doesn't go as low...
I'm guessing the freq. response is wrong. It's identical to the adjustable crossover freq. and I think that's unlikely.
The unit is twice as heavy as the Dayton and has a much larger enclosure. It almost as large as a STF-3 or ISD-12. The view of the back of the sub also speaks well of it. We'll compare notes shortly. :cool:

David

[rajacat]

What makes a good subwoofer? Is it the cabinet, size of the woofer, weight, finesse involved in combining the variables or what? There must be some refined acoustical skills involved or all subs with identical components would sound the same. The sub offered by Woot certainly is cheap but will it have the capacity to reproduce the refined subtlety of an acoustical bass?

[bikeman]

What makes a good subwoofer? Is it the cabinet, size of the woofer, weight, finesse involved in combining the variables or what? There must be some refined acoustical skills involved or all subs with identical components would sound the same. The sub offered by Woot certainly is cheap but will it have the capacity to reproduce the refined subtlety of an acoustical bass?
I'll let ya know in about a week. It's from a company that knows how to reproduce sound.

David

[rajacat]

I checked out the Soundbridge website and they seem to be a legitimate company producing some high end equipment. So, if they are any good, Woot would be sold out in short order. Maybe it is more of a rock and roll type of sub but it's worth the gamble.

[bikeman]

So, if they are any good, Woot would be sold out in short order.
The folks who frequent WOOT are clueless in this hobby. You could put Ascends on that site and the regulars would bitch about them. Any video card will sell out in no time. But not speakers. Well, maybe if they were $19.95 computer speakers they'd be gone in a flash. :)

David

[rajacat]

On page 6 of the WOOT reviews of the sub, there is a reviewer, who seems knowledgeable and has had first hand experience with the sub. He gives it a rave review. It would sure be nice to get a $400 sub for $105 so that I can allocate the savings to a new receiver, perhaps the Panny xr55.

[sensibull]

On the whole, these Woot review are not giving me high hopes for this sub. They speak of suspect build quality, foam surrounds, high port noise, and loosy-goosy bass. When I am going to wake up and realize TANSTAAFL (for you non-Robert Heinlein fans, that's an acronym from The Moon is a Harsh Mistress that stands for "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.")

[rajacat]

Oh well, I guess I will have to forget about a new receiver for awhile. :( It appears that they just had a bunch of old sub enclosures around, just filled them with some cheap drivers. drilled a couple of "ports" and finished them with whatever old parts that were laying around the warehouse. I'm glad that I changed my Ascend order from 170SE's to 340's thereby a sub might not be required for music.

[bikeman]

On the whole, these Woot review are not giving me high hopes for this sub. They speak of suspect build quality, foam surrounds, high port noise, and loosy-goosy bass. When I am going to wake up and realize TANSTAAFL (for you non-Robert Heinlein fans, that's an acronym from The Moon is a Harsh Mistress that stands for "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.")
I guess we're reading the reviews in a different light. I've got high hopes for this sub and nothing I've read has changed those hopes. I won't get to use the sub till Tuesday so I can't say one way or the other till then but I'm definitely not discouraged by what's been writter to this point.
I haven't looked upon this as a "free lunch." I'm expecting a hell of a bargain. Stay tuned.

David

[rajacat]

bikeman...I will defer to your judgment to determine the sound quality of the sub because you have the Dayton 10" for comparison, I've never have had a sub and I don't have my system set up yet for auditioning it with the Ascends. If it turns out to be a lemon perhaps it can be returned because Woot stated that it had a rubber butyl surround which, according to the the feedback so far, is just foam. False advertising, eh?

[sensibull]

I guess we're reading the reviews in a different light.

Well, it's mainly the reports of obvious port noise that are worrying me. I'm not aware of much, if any, coming from the Dayton and little things like that tend to stick in my craw and grab my attention... Perhaps I could try the flares from PartsExpress, but I will have a narrow window to return it and get Woot to pickup the shipping (due to the false advertising on the size, weight, and rubber surround).

[bikeman]

Woot stated that it had a rubber butyl surround which, according to the the feedback so far, is just foam. False advertising, eh?
Yeah, but I understand how it can happen. Woot dosen't own what they sell and I doubt they're ever even in possession of any product they've sold. They're brokers. All the BS comes from the seller. In this case, SoundBridge. I glad about that because SB appears to be taking care of the problems.
I'm not at all concerned with the foam issue. Accousticaly, I wouldn't be able to tell a difference and today's foam will outlast my need for the sub so that's not a non issue.
The port noise is the only thing that needs to be addressed in my book and I'll be reporting on that at my first opportunity.

David

[Lou-the-dog]

I read some of the latest posts on the SB sub thread over at Woot. There are some folks having success with the sub and not complaining of port noise. I'm starting to wonder if most are just simply over-driving this thing way beyond it's limits. Some knowledgable calibration may be all it takes. BTW, I bought the Texas Hold'em handheld game there today (my first purchase). It will be a stocking stuffer for my nephew. That Woot site and forum just cracks me up... :rolleyes:

Randy

[bikeman]

The port noise is the only thing that needs to be addressed in my book and I'll be reporting on that at my first opportunity.David
I got a brief opportunity to audition the sub before I had to leave. Not the bargain that the original specs would have led us to believe but still an excellent value at the price ($105. delivered). I'll go into more detail once I've EQ'ed it but there was no detectable port noise in my tests with "Master and Commander" and buildings blowin-up.
The enclosure is much smaller than advertised and this is good considering how small the two ports (holes) are. Build quality is very good. It's a stable unit. It's a keeper.

David

[rajacat]

I still haven't taken delivery of my sub. I'll have to admit that my expectations have not been that high given the feedback. However, the level of discussion on the Woot forum was not very sophisticated compared to this forum and AVS. Now that you have had a chance to audition it, my mood has improved. I will be interested in how it stands up to your Dayton 10". Perhaps it can be modified with a new tuned port. I've been exploring the AVS Forum, the subwoof section, and there are several free software programs available that can be used for alterations that might improve the SQ if needed.

[sensibull]

Well I got my Soundbridge this morning. FedEx had delayed delivery by two days, and thankfully ended up outsourcing it to a smaller company, so the package arrived in really good shape with no noticeable damage to the sub.

Like David, I only had a chance to run preliminary tests on it (before picking up the kids from daycare). First impression was that it blended with my 340s better than the Dayton 10", but at higher volumes the bass got muddy and drew more attention to itself. The SB also exhibits a low hum when powered on; the Dayton does not.

Interestingly enough, when I plotted the frequency response of both subs (without any EQ applied) with Room EQ Wizard, I got almost identical curves (see below). I guess that goes to show just how much one's room dictates sound. For this test, I also ran the 340s. The graph only shows the response from 20-100Hz.

http://www.mindserai.com/SBvsDayton1.jpg

I'm really torn at this point. Based on what others have said on the Woot forum, the false advertising gives me a loophole to force Woot to pay for return shipping, should I decide to return it for a refund. I am looking for a sub to go with the 170s I have in a secondary listening setup, but I want something musical (or more musical than the Dayton at least). This sub definitely does NOT fit that bill. More later after I have time to test further...

[sensibull]

Well, after further listening, I'm afraid I like this sub even less. Chuffing out the wazoo while watching War of the Worlds. I even got port noise on some music playback after trying to EQ it with my HK 635 (which I'm guessing boosted the bottom end in and effort to make up for its rolloff). I never thought I'd say this, but switching back to the Dayton was a relief.

Hopefully, I can convince Woot to pay for return shipping and issue a refund. If not, I guess I'll just BFD-it as flat as possible and consign it to the 2-channel setup until I can get something better or figure out a way to make better use of the plate amp.

If nothing else, this experience has really interested me in going the DIY route. I have decent woodworking skills and pretty much all the tools necessary. Cosmetics aside (which are actually quite nice for $99), I sure as hell could build something better than this thing (http://www.bentvalve.info/sbsub.htm). (Do those even qualify as ports? And not a lick of internal bracing?) Lots and lots and lots of reading to do though...

[curtis]

For the heck of it, try plugging the port and running the EQ again to see if you like the results.

[sensibull]

For the heck of it, try plugging the port and running the EQ again to see if you like the results.

Will do, perhaps mañana or later tonight.

[rajacat]

My sub finally arrived and in perfect condition. I'll try it out this evening and report my opinion.

[sensibull]

Well, I played around a bit more with the Soundbridge. Tried plugging the ports and though that certainly helped with the chuffing, it also cut the output pretty drastically and actually made it more difficult to EQ anywhere near flat. Sound-wise, I can't really say it "tightened" anything up. More like "muffled." I'll admit my heart wasn't really into it any more after I put the Dayton back in the loop, applied the HK's EQ and then added some BFD filters and came up with this response:

http://www.mindserai.com/Dayton_EQd.jpg

With the exception of the minor hump around 100Hz, the Dayton and 340 L/R combo was +/- 3dB from 30-200Hz. This is significantly better than I've ever been able to achieve before (which I can only attribute to the improvements applied by the recent firmware upgrade in the 635) and I am loathe to adjust or swap out anything at this point.

No word yet on whether Woot will let me return the sub. If not, it will go into the basement where my poor 170s now reside. It should be fine for non-critical music listening (e.g. rocking out while I exercise or tool around in my workshop).

[rajacat]

I was going to test my sub this evening but lack the splitter for the connection. I'm sorry that you are not having better luck with the SQ and I might have to consider returning too, if possible. Unfortunately, I don't have my 340SE's yet and will have to test it just using some small indoor/outdoor Polks. I can't understand how a company known for its high end professional equipment can put an inferior product in the marketplace and take the negative publicity. I wonder if they tested it adequately or just threw together a bunch of excess inventory they had laying around the warehouse. Some of the people on the woot forum liked it but they might be just looking for a "thumper". I took the chance because of the SoundBridge name and the gear they displayed on their websight.

[sensibull]

I was going to test my sub this evening but lack the splitter for the connection.

A splitter isn't strictly necessary. All you need is an RCA cable from the sub out on your receiver to either the L or R input on the sub (from what I understand a split signal will give you a small boost, in the area of 4dB, but it won't really change the sound any).

Don't get me wrong -- I still think this sub is serviceable, and overall a great deal for the price. If you've never had one in your system before, you might be quite pleased, especially if you listen to primarily rock/hip-hop. And it looks like a bag a polyfil might help a bit. Just don't feed it any hot signals below ~35-40Hz or expect cleanly plucked bass strings. And be sure to set the switch to "on" and not "auto" or else you'll get thumps everytime it detects a signal.

[bikeman]

Things have gotten too hectic for me to do any further tests till Saturday at the earliest. I'll compare charts and listening tests to the Dayton 10 but it may be next week before I have the time.

David

[rajacat]

Well, after listening to the sub for awhile I'll have to admit that it is better than no sub at all. I'm really pumped to get the 340SE's; since I sold my Rogers these little Polk's just don't satisfy. I will keep the woot sub and perhaps do some mods starting with the ports. Maybe later I'll spring for a new driver. Does anybody have a suggestions for replacement 12" driver with the most bang for the buck? A musical driver not a "thumper" please!
Eventually, I'd like to get a state of the art sub with emphasize on musical qualities not just volume.

[curtis]

You should use some modeling software before you change the port and driver.

[rajacat]

I've been investigating http://www.diysubwoofers.org/ and , when I have the time, use a spreadsheet program for the mods. I suppose I could start off with something easy like stuffing more polyfill into the box. When I get the SE's, I'll have a better idea if this sub will integrate into my system or will it just be a drag on quality.

[curtis]

Yeah...from what I understand, stuffing with polyfill will slow down air speed in the box, making it seem "bigger". That might help with port noise.

[bikeman]

When I get the SE's, I'll have a better idea if this sub will integrate into my system or will it just be a drag on quality.
In my brief listening tests, I would put it in the same category as the Dayton 10. It's not up to the 340's by any stretch and I'll only be using it for movies. I'll continue to listen to music sans sub.

David

[rajacat]

Oh well, I was expecting more. Like I mentioned in an earlier post that when I was ordering my 340's, I told James that I was buying the woot sub and he said that I'll get what I paid for. I will start saving for a musical sub but with the 340's there will be no rush. The small HSU might be good enough unless I get a case of biggeritus. Who knows, maybe Woot will refund.