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bikeman
08-03-2005, 10:00 AM
Yesterday Brown brought me a Panasonic SA-XR55 receiver (digital amp). I've posted a quick impression on the Panny thread @ AVS. More to come as I have time to experiment.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5976784#post5976784

I'm Bikedorian over there. Someone had taken Bikeman ahead of me.

David

Eddie
08-08-2005, 08:43 PM
Yes, please share all the details. I'm seriously considering the sa-xr55 for a bedroom system but hell if it can beat my NAD I'll put it in the living room gladly...should score a lot of WAF brownie points! :)

That AVS thread is interesting but whew, very long and a million directions.

bikeman
08-09-2005, 06:11 AM
Yes, please share all the details. I'm seriously considering the sa-xr55 for a bedroom system but hell if it can beat my NAD I'll put it in the living room gladly...should score a lot of WAF brownie points! :)
That AVS thread is interesting but whew, very long and a million directions.

The 55 has pluses and minuses. I'll use it for at least a month before putting my Kenwood back in the main system. I don't expect to hear much difference but we'll see in September. The Panny did seem brighter when I first hooked it up but I've adapted to it. When I switch back, it will be interesting to see if I have a preference. This is not a fool proof method but it's what works best for me.
When you say "beat my NAD," what does that imply?

David

Eddie
08-09-2005, 11:50 PM
> When you say "beat my NAD," what does that imply?

My NAD completely blew my Marantz 5400 out of the water: incredible power, clarity, fullness and nice tight bass. The Marantz can produce about the same db but cannot match the other characteristics.

So I'd be curious as to how the Panny would compare in those departments. Quinn thought that the JVC rx-f10 he used to have was overly "analytical" for example, and other detractors of pure-digitals have complained of them being too bright, flat, weak, etc.

If the Panny can match or exceed the NAD I would jump at it.

svenyun
08-10-2005, 12:59 AM
I bought an XR55 while my HK 7200 was in the shop, for about 3 weeks. The HK is back, and the first impression after hearing the HK again is that the Panasonic is a little brighter, with more detail. Bass is tight and well controlled. The HK has a warmer sound, by that I mean the mid bass has more energy. Almost sounds a little sloppy compared to the Panasonic. The blend between my CBM-170s and the SVS sub sounds more natural with the Panasonic. I could listen to music with the sub on the Panasonic, whereas with the HK I preferred to set the mains to large with no sub. Both receivers were crossed over at 80Hz. The HK seemed a little more dynamic, this may have been the more prominent mid bass though.

The HK tested out at almost twice the power into seven channels at 8ohms (~130W, Sound and Vision test I think) compared to the XR55 (~86W). The XR55 thread at AVS has a link to the German review that tested the Panasonic. The two tests may not have been done in the same conditions, but it's enough of a comparison to get a general idea. The German review also tested a Yamaha, HK, and a Sony if I remember correctly, all in the $500 range I think, and none of them held up to the Panasonic in the all channels driven test.

Keep in mind the price difference between these two receivers. If I had a budget of $500-600 and looking for a receiver I'd get the Panasonic because I doubt any analog receivers in that price range would match it. To think that it compares this favorably to something so far up in the HK line is pretty amazing.

Something else I liked about the Panny, very fast changes between digital bitstreams, eg Dolby Pro Logic -> Dolby Digital as in changing from DVD menu to the movie. The HK chokes on these changes and mutes for 2-4 seconds.

I still don't know which one will end up in the spare room.

bikeman
08-10-2005, 06:50 AM
> When you say "beat my NAD," what does that imply?

My NAD completely blew my Marantz 5400 out of the water: incredible power, clarity, fullness and nice tight bass. The Marantz can produce about the same db but cannot match the other characteristics.

So I'd be curious as to how the Panny would compare in those departments. Quinn thought that the JVC rx-f10 he used to have was overly "analytical" for example, and other detractors of pure-digitals have complained of them being too bright, flat, weak, etc.

If the Panny can match or exceed the NAD I would jump at it.

The Panny dosen't even completely blow my Kenwood 6060 "out of the water." It has a different signature for sure but it will be another two months before I decide which I perfer sound wise. For ease of use, the Panny wins hands down. It dosen't have all the bells and whistles so that could affect a buying decesion.
I think the term analytical describes the Panny pretty well. From all that I've read, and it's a bunch, folks say the Panny is more analytical than the JVC.
Sven's post is a real eye opener for me. I think quite highly of the H/K 7200.

David

Eddie
08-10-2005, 08:56 AM
yeah the 7200 is a $2000 flagship isn't it? Pretty staggering if a $250 Panny keeps up with it.

David, have you heard the JVC rx-f10 yourself? I remember reading that it was supposed to be better for 2-channel music, but that was a while back when it was being compared to the older xr25/50/70 models.

svenyun
08-10-2005, 05:44 PM
After more listening, with and without the sub, I think the Panasonic does seem more "analytical" than the HK. That is a good way to describe it. This is more true as the volume goes up, but at normal levels they compare well. As I said before the HK does have a slightly warmer sound so if you prefer that, you'd probably enjoy the HK more. With inefficient 4 ohm floorstanders the HK probably would stand out even more, it does have a bit more power to work with. I'm still amazed the Panny sounds as good as it does, I wasn't expecting to have to listen very much to make a preference. It was a cheap standby while the HK was in the shop.

bikeman
08-10-2005, 06:09 PM
David, have you heard the JVC rx-f10 yourself? I remember reading that it was supposed to be better for 2-channel music, but that was a while back when it was being compared to the older xr25/50/70 models.

I haven't heard the JVC. It is much more of a hybrid amp than the Panny so I would expect it to have some different qualities than the Panny. It is the prevailing view that the JVC is better in analog than the Panny.
I also haven't heard the earlier Panny's so I can't comment on any differences there, if any.
One area that I'm very pleased with the Panny is listening to Internet Radio (which I do often). I seldom sit down and listen to IR. I have it on when I'm buzzing around the house and gardens which is quite a bit. It might not be quite CD quality but I get to hear a lotta different music that I wouldn't otherwise get to hear.
The Panny does digital very well. I'm not sure on the analog side of things just yet but it's a keeper for sure.

David

Kurt C.
08-11-2005, 08:38 AM
Anyone know how to determine if/when a given receiver is nearing its upper limits without driving it to obvious clipping?

I happen to believe the experts who tell me that "within their limits" and all preamps/amps (and receivers) sound very similar if not identical.

How do I know if the two receivers I'm listening to are both "within their limits".

OK, I found a partial answer to my own question in this thread:

Amp Clipping Discussion (http://www.htguide.com/forum/archive/index.php4/t-5375)

I still wish there were some kind of simple aftermarket meter that I could hook up to my system to see when it is appraching the point of clipping.

bikeman
08-11-2005, 10:08 AM
I still wish there were some kind of simple aftermarket meter that I could hook up to my system to see when it is appraching the point of clipping.

My Kenwood 6060 has a clipping circuit built in. I found out it worked when I hooked up an external DAC that had a voltage that was higher than the Kenwood's input. I couldn't hear any clipping but the light was coming on very briefly on occasion. I hooked the DAC up to two other receivers that I own and there was no indication of clipping.

David

bikeman
08-15-2005, 10:10 AM
The Panny does digital very well. I'm not sure on the analog side of things just yet but it's a keeper for sure.
David

A week ago Saturday, my wife was taken down by a dog while riding her bike. The dog attacked the bike and not her so all her injuries were caused by bouncing down the pavement and not by animal bites. No broken bones but lots of swelling and black and blue all over. She knows how to properly wear a helmet and this was the difference between coming home that night from the emergency room and ....
The inside of the helmet took some skin off and she had a minor concussion but that's much better than the alternative. She's still recuperating so I'm also off the bike and at home more than usual for this time of year. It's given my a chance to experiment with the Panny 55.
Yesterday, we did extensive listening to CD's. I used the RS SPL meter to equalize between analog and digital signals. The bottom line is I can't hear a difference. Sometimes I'd think there's a difference but when I re-ran the passage, the difference wasn't there.
My wife has much better hearing than myself so I asked her to listen for any differences but didn't tell her what changes were being made. Sometimes I didn't even make a change so that I could better control the test. There were a few occasions where she thought she could detect a difference but she was unable to pick out those differences with any degree of certainty when we re-ran the passage.
The receiver continues to impress me. Like most folks who buy Ascend speakers, I'm not looking for the ultimate in audio. We're looking for the best value. The Panny 55 might just fit the same senario.
If anyone has any questions or would like me to try a particular combination with this receiver, let me know. I've got some extra time on my hands for another week or two.

David

bikeman
08-23-2005, 08:57 AM
I've taken the Dayton 10" sub out of the loop and I'm now running the 340's full range. I'll probably stick with this for awhile. With Internet Radio this is definintely the way to go.

David

Eddie
09-08-2005, 10:44 PM
OK, here's my first impressions on the xr55:

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/160136.html

chas
09-09-2005, 06:19 AM
Very interesting Eddie...keep us posted as you rack up more time with the unit.

Eddie
09-11-2005, 02:35 PM
after several days of listening only to the Panny, today I finally started doing some A/B listening with the Panny vs. my beloved NAD...and the "aha" moments are coming in spades right now.

Started with some Bach: a solo piano piece ("Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring") and the Brandenburg Concerto No. 3 in G Major (Allegro). The piano piece had both receivers pretty close at moderate volumes, though I could already hear a clarity advantage in favor of the Panny, which simply sounded more open and natural.

However at high volumes (90-95db) and particularly on the violin concerto, the Panny simply WIPED THE FLOOR with the NAD, which started to get thin on the highs and weak on the mids during musical peaks, with a layer of fuzz settling in around the edges. The Panny on the other hand calmly delivered the goods with perfect aplomb, didn't even get hot to the touch, stayed the same warmish temperature to the touch throughout.

Moved on to Norah Jones, "Don't Know Why" and "Seven Years"---didn't crank the volume above 80db this time, but again the Panny held a clear advantage. Wow, the midrange was just tremendous...Norah's voice seemed much fuller, her breaths more audible, when she held a note for a couple of seconds it all came through clear and effortlessly. In comparison the NAD seemd to favor certain parts of the frequency range over others, Norah's voice while still very pleasing did not have the same range.

Van Morrison, "Moondance"---a mediocre recording, but again the Panny did it with a bit more life and verve than the NAD.

Santana, "Put Your Lights On," "Maria Maria," and "Corazon Espinado." This is one of my favorite demo CDs because the songs have a variety of tempos and both simple and complex passages. There is also a lot of treble and midrange happening at the same time, all driven by a strong beat.

Once again, during complex passages (by which I mean lots of instruments, voices, percussion all happening at the same time) the Panny pulled ahead and never looked back. Separation of musical inputs was outstanding, bringing out many details that were muted on the NAD.

The NAD clearly does deliver more bass (I had my speakers set on large on the Panny, with the sub turned off) and on simpler compositions did have more of a laid back, warmish sound. However at about six times the price (an equivalent NAD amp + pre-pro today would run about $1300 compared to the Panny's $230) that's a lot of dough just for a particular sound characteristic with a particular type of musical compositions. In fact if I were buying my system from scratch today, I would choose the Panny without a second thought over both the NAD and the Marantz and spend the extra money on the speakers and sub...complete no-brainer.

What particularly surprised me was the fact that the slim featherweight Panny actually seems far more powerful than the behemoth NAD in both SPL and maintaining SQ at high SPL. It is rated at 100wpc at 6 ohms, but after today I would guesstimate that they could easily list it at 150wpc at 8ohms if they wanted to and they'd still be far more honest than 90% of their competition. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this receiver even as a party appliance.

Wow, wow, wow..a 230 lousy bucks suddenly goes a VERY long way, indeed!

This Panny is far from perfect in terms of componentry, features, remote, and ease of use no doubt---but the performance it delivers at this ridiculously low pricepoint is simply staggering. If Panny adds another say $200 to the price tag to give it higher grade features and components, it will be extremely hard to beat.

Simply put, I cannot imagine there being too many solid-state analog receivers around 10 years from now, other than the real high end die-hard audiophile niche.

SOLD!

PS. Also will hook up my $60 Panasonic DVD player to the Panny for music playback and see how it sounds compared to the Marantz CDP since with the xr55 there are no DACs involved at all, the DVD player will simply be used a transport so unless its transport and chassis completely sucks it should produce the same musical output as the Marantz.

If this proves to be true, I'll probably move my Marantz CDP and NAD to the bedroom and sell off the Marantz receiver. SHWEEET! Less clutter, less cost, better SQ!

Kurt C.
09-11-2005, 03:51 PM
In fact if I were buying my system from scratch today, I would choose the Panny without a second thought over both the NAD and the Marantz and spend the extra money on the speakers and sub...complete no-brainer.Nice review.

This is why I think it is so important that we reward good engineering over hearsay and subjectivism.

Imagine the poor guy who gets his advice from the wrong crowd and ends up blowing $250 on a couple of crappy 10-watt tube amps.

In the end, only two groups suffer when we accept fundamental truths about audio components:

1. The people who make $250 speaker cables.
2. The magazines who get paid to say that such things impart magic to music.

PS--Don't forget to occasionally whip out the SPL meter to make sure you aren't being unfair to that loyal old NAD amp that has served you so well. Cheers!

Eddie
09-11-2005, 03:59 PM
No worries, all my listening today has been done with SPL meter in hand! :)

But yeah I do feel a little guilty towards my beloved NAD...

Damn, I almost feel like a 50 year old man leaving his 50 year old wife of 25 years for some 25 year old hottie!

bikeman
09-11-2005, 04:12 PM
Wow, wow, wow..a 230 lousy bucks suddenly goes a VERY long way, indeed!

This Panny is far from perfect in terms of componentry, features, remote, and ease of use no doubt---but the performance it delivers at this ridiculously low pricepoint is simply staggering. If Panny adds another say $200 to the price tag to give it higher grade features and components, it will be extremely hard to beat.

Simply put, I cannot imagine there being too many solid-state analog receivers around 10 years from now, other than the real high end die-hard audiophile niche.
SOLD!


This pretty much sums up my feelings for this receiver. The only reason I would consider a different recevier or separates is to get more features. Right now, I don't need additional features and probably by the time that I do, the offerings will be quite different from today's.
Nice write-up Eddie. I'm afraid we've let the cat out of the bag. ;)

David

Eddie
09-11-2005, 07:39 PM
> I'm afraid we've let the cat out of the bag.

It puzzles me that aside from audio forums, the Panny hasn't been getting that much buzz.

Guess we'll have to wait until somebody like Microsoft latches onto this technology and markets the hell out of it, then we'll truly see the audio world flipped on its head...

Oh well, I guess it took CDs a few years to take off too didn't it? Somebody refresh my memory on that. Funny, I remember balking at paying $15 for a CD at the time, when LPs were available for $6 and cassettes for $7!

Lou-the-dog
09-11-2005, 08:22 PM
> It puzzles me that aside from audio forums, the Panny hasn't been getting that much buzz.

Hey Eddie, the buzz has to start somewhere! That Panny sure does merit a listen me thinks. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Randy

Eddie
09-11-2005, 08:50 PM
you're very welcome, Randy. Yeah I think that even if you aren't in the market for a receiver, paying $15-20 for return shipping to Amazon is worth an in-home listen.

The XR series has been out for at least a year I think...will have to look at that humongous thread on the avsforum to see when it started.

You'd think that at this pricepoint, it'd be sold at all the big places like Target, Walmart as well as BB and CC. Why is Panasonic not pushing this thing more I wonder? Maybe they're not making enough of a margin on it or something... :confused:

Kurt C.
09-12-2005, 07:09 AM
It puzzles me that aside from audio forums, the Panny hasn't been getting that much buzz.Actually, Consumer Reports ranked the XR50 as their "Best Buy". The magazine does have its faults, but at least they're honest and earnestly try to arrive at the truth.

Consumer reports has no advertising, which means they can review products without thinking about the bottom line. Too bad that most audio magazines (and the forums that the readers of those magazines populate) are addicted to advertising money from dishonest manufactureres.

Unfortunately, I hear even Consumer Reports has to worry about money sometimes. The story I heard was that CR once gave a really bad review to (a company that must remain unnamed) because if you measure them from a single spot, those speakers are extremely inaccurate. The company sued. Consumer reports changed their method of measuring speakers. Too bad. I have a hard time putting my head more than one place at once--which would be required to hear good sound out of a pair of those speakers I used to own.

Funny! I just learned that auto censoring prevents me from writing the word **** on this website. CR must not be the only ones afraid of getting sued!

bikeman
09-12-2005, 08:15 AM
Funny! I just learned that auto censoring prevents me from writing the word **** on this website. CR must not be the only ones afraid of getting sued!

Yeah, that really B(l)OSE! :D

David

svenyun
09-15-2005, 05:10 PM
Well I thought I would check back in. The XR55 found a new home in the tv stand. I took the opportunity to take everything out, drill some cable holes in shelves and get it set up right. I'll just say that if I was in the market for a receiver, it would be the XR55 hands down. You'd have to spend a lot more money to get a better analog amp. The HK 7200 is a nice beast of a receiver but except for more inputs, more flexible crossover, and more power (which I don't need) it doesn't really offer better sound, especially when you consider the price differential. The 7200 did heat the room and keep the tv stand anchored in place though :)

I doubt I'll ever buy an analog receiver/amp over a digital one that's for sure. I really like what the XR55 offers for $250. I'm very interested to see what future design Panasonic will come up with.

fastbike
09-28-2005, 05:25 PM
Well, since I'm upgrading everything, and based on the good experiences here and on AVS, I just got an XR55. Like its been said, I don't think you can go wrong for $236.

Still waiting for my 170s/340C to arrive so nothing is making music yet. However, if I understand how a digital amp works, and the Panny in particular, some of our old concerns with DVD and CD players may not matter. I can't find any detail on the XR55 so I'm hoping the wizards on this forum can chime in.

Anyway, as I understand, one advantage of a digital amp is that it doesn't need a DAC for output. The amp is capable of varying the signal at the speaker terminal sufficiently for the waveform. If so, then a digital signal from a DVD or CD (i.e. optical) is a straight pass-through from the media to the speaker. The player is just the transport. How cool is that! No more worrying about DAC in the player (which Burr-Brown etc). Should be much more fidelity. Seems like free lunch, so I wonder if I am missing something.

bikeman
09-28-2005, 05:59 PM
Seems like free lunch, so I wonder if I am missing something.

No free lunch. At least not until the speakers go digital. One of the things I like about the 55 is the analog is just as good as the digital signal. At least with my music and my ears.
The DAC situation has been talked about on the 55 thread on AVS. Makes my head hurt just to think about it.
You are gonna like this set-up.

David

fastbike
09-28-2005, 06:08 PM
I know I'm gonna like it. I'm upgrading everything over the next few months. Will shortly be ordering a HSU STF-2 to go with the Ascends. Am waiting for the new HK DVD-47 to upgrade to a universal player. Still haven't picked the HDTV yet.

But everything is so mcuh better than my HT or stereo that I'm afraid my face will freeze with the huge stupid grin.

fastbike
09-28-2005, 06:09 PM
No free lunch. At least not until the speakers go digital. One of the things I like about the 55 is the analog is just as good as the digital signal. At least with my music and my ears.
The DAC situation has been talked about on the 55 thread on AVS. Makes my head hurt just to think about it.
You are gonna like this set-up.

David

Are you sure? I've read one article that said that the pure digital amp put the analog signal at the speaker terminal, no DAC involved in the input signal was already digital.

Kurt C.
09-29-2005, 07:07 AM
Are you sure? I've read one article that said that the pure digital amp put the analog signal at the speaker terminal, no DAC involved in the input signal was already digital.He's right. If there were no DAC, the sound coming out of your speaker would sound something like a modem connecting to a server...

The 55 differs from typical receivers in that the DAC is placed after the amp section rather than before.

If my understanding is correct, even when we do get speakers that can accept a digital imput, there will have to be the equavalent of a digital to analog conversion at the point where the digital signal is converted to sound.

Abhi
09-29-2005, 11:09 AM
It can more appropriately be called a power DAC - an integrated DAC and power amp in one stage. There is no separate DAC-only stage.

fastbike
09-29-2005, 02:11 PM
It can more appropriately be called a power DAC - an integrated DAC and power amp in one stage. There is no separate DAC-only stage.

Thanks for the replys. I'm well outside my bounds of understanding. Is this ("integrated DAC") better, worse, or depends on implementation. It would seem that the fewer conversions between source and output the better. At least that's my theory for using the Digital Optical outputs on my current gear.

MikeAndAnnie
09-29-2005, 03:43 PM
Guess I need some THD 101 education.

The panny lists a THD of 0.9% in "home theatre mode".
Most HT receivers I see are about 1/10 of that, e.g.,
the Onkyo TXSR 503 is .08%.
I have not heard the panny, but am puzzled how it
could spec such a high THD and still sound "better" than
most HT receivers in its price range? Not saying it
doesn't - as I said, I have not heard it.
Just puzzled.

Eddie
09-29-2005, 08:47 PM
Guess I need some THD 101 education.

The panny lists a THD of 0.9% in "home theatre mode".
Most HT receivers I see are about 1/10 of that, e.g.,
the Onkyo TXSR 503 is .08%.
I have not heard the panny, but am puzzled how it
could spec such a high THD and still sound "better" than
most HT receivers in its price range? Not saying it
doesn't - as I said, I have not heard it.
Just puzzled.

This question comes up all the time, don't know why Panasonic has not fudged their numbers just like everybody else since a signficant number of audio shoppers seem to put a lot of stock into specs.

The short answer is that anything under 10% THD is not audible to most human ears, and that while some detractors of all-digital sound might claim that it's too "cold," "analytical," or "bright," I have never seen anybody claim that it had undue DISTORTION. Astounding detail with zero distortion regardless of volume level is exactly what digital receivers are known for.

bikeman
09-30-2005, 05:13 AM
Guess I need some THD 101 education.
No education needed. Modern amps and receivers add so little distortion that humans can't hear it. Don't let marketing crap get in the way. Enjoy the sound and not the worthless published specs.

David

Kurt C.
09-30-2005, 06:54 AM
The short answer is that anything under 10% THD is not audible to most human ears.The PC ABX testing site has examples of what different levels of THD sound like in comparison to no (added) THD. I think 10% is the 'very difficult to hear' level while 1% is the 'might be impossible to hear'. Regardless, 0.9% is below detection.

sensibull
09-30-2005, 07:28 AM
You guys have certainly caught my interest. Considering its price point, I have been very unsatisfied lately with the sound I've been getting out of my HK 635. I've run the EQ at least a dozen times, with and without my BFD in the loop, at different crossover points, and I simply can't arrive at a smooth transition or anything resembling "tight bass" with my 340s and Dayton 10". Movie performance has been a little underwhelming as well. Maybe I just don't go in for the supposed "warm" sound of the HK. Certainly the Dayton is partially to blame, but I watch too many movies to go w/o a sub.

Just read the 33-page thread on AVS last night, and at the risk of breaking all the rules of audio logic, I am considering selling off the HK and buying the Panny (and using the extra cash for some other projects), but I have a couple of lingering concerns.

1. Has anyone here experienced the flaky remote range/reception discussed over on AVS? The unit would be behind plexiglass (to keep my kids from pushing buttons).

2. Along those same lines, what *cannot* be done with the remote? E.g. you cannot switch to speaker B with the remote, correct? What else? I'd be using a One for All 9910, and have found an JP-1 upgrade for the XR25, so hopefully I can get most of the functions programmed.

3. Am I correct in understanding that it is possible to have 5.1 in the main room, with the L/R speakers bi-wired/bi-amped, and still have a Zone 2 run off Speaker B?

4. The Panny has no Pre-Outs, correct?

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Eddie
09-30-2005, 09:01 AM
sensibull,

1. N/A, since I don't have any glass enclosure
2. The remote doesn't allow you to change connection input settings and a couple of other things, like no "Tape" selection if you're using a tape deck. Annoying but minor.
3. not sure, I haven't tried bi-amping yet
4. nope, no pre-outs but why would you need one anyways, would defeat the whole purpose of an all-digital receiver.

I'm a little surprised to hear that you're not happy with the HK635 but if super detail is what you want the Panny should make you very, very happy. You could put the savings of buying the Panny and reselling the HK into a second Dayton sub if you want extra bass, or just get a Hsu STF-2.

fastbike
09-30-2005, 11:30 AM
sensibull,

1. N/A, since I don't have any glass enclosure
2. The remote doesn't allow you to change connection input settings and a couple of other things, like no "Tape" selection if you're using a tape deck. Annoying but minor.
3. not sure, I haven't tried bi-amping yet
4. nope, no pre-outs but why would you need one anyways, would defeat the whole purpose of an all-digital receiver.

I'm a little surprised to hear that you're not happy with the HK635 but if super detail is what you want the Panny should make you very, very happy. You could put the savings of buying the Panny and reselling the HK into a second Dayton sub if you want extra bass, or just get a Hsu STF-2.

A minor clarification. The Panny has the usual subwoofer out (I think of it as a pre-out). But I agree w/ Eddie, other pre-outs sort of defeats the purpose.

I don't think you can bi-wire and run another zone (speakers B). The bi-wire uses the B connections for the tweeters and the A connections for the woofers on your mains.

curtis
09-30-2005, 11:45 AM
Here is an article about digital amplification that I thought was good:
http://resmagonline.com/articles/publish/printer_73.shtml

bikeman
09-30-2005, 12:14 PM
1. Has anyone here experienced the flaky remote range/reception discussed over on AVS? The unit would be behind plexiglass (to keep my kids from pushing buttons).

2. Along those same lines, what *cannot* be done with the remote? E.g. you cannot switch to speaker B with the remote, correct? What else? I'd be using a One for All 9910, and have found an JP-1 upgrade for the XR25, so hopefully I can get most of the functions programmed.

I still use the Dayton for movies but I'm currently running the 340's large with no sub for music. The Dayton isn't in the same class as the 340's and it shows.
The remote is the weak point of this receiver. I have it behind a glass door and it does create a bit of a problem. The sensor is in a poor location and having the door closed has an effect. I have moved the receiver slightly to the right and back and this has helped a bit but it's still not ideal. I've learned to live with it.
I'm using a RS (One for All) remote with a JP-1 as well. This is better than the Panasonic remote. I haven't programmed all the functions yet. I'll get around to that when the weather goes all to heck. Too many other projects going on right now.

David

sensibull
09-30-2005, 02:54 PM
Thanks for the replies, guys. I guess I really showed my ignorance there with my question re: pre-outs http://deephousepage.com/smilies/doh.gif

I think I'll stick with the HK for now -- beyond the flaky EQ, it has some features I really like (such as HDCD decoding, a nice Zone 2 setup, and the potential for RS-232 control from my HTPC), and I can only imagine the digital receivers will just keep getting better and better (thanks for the article link, Curtis, the idea of a highly configurable EQ had me salivating).


I still use the Dayton for movies but I'm currently running the 340's large with no sub for music.

How do you switch back and forth with any degree of convenience? Or does the Panny allow a sub to be "switched off"?

bikeman
09-30-2005, 03:25 PM
How do you switch back and forth with any degree of convenience? Or does the Panny allow a sub to be "switched off"?

Convenience? What's dat? :confused:
I go into the menu to shut it off. I don't watch a lotta movies so it's no big deal. To take the 340's down another octave and not compromise the sound, it takes a pretty good woof or sub woof. I'm working on it.

David

sensibull
09-30-2005, 04:09 PM
I go into the menu to shut it off.

Hmmm... pretty sure my HK won't even allow selection of the no sub option if one is connected (on or not). I'd have to pull the pre-out plug, load the OSD and re-config, then re-plug and repeat after each switch. And considering the weight of the HK, that's way too much exercise for me ;-)

Eddie
09-30-2005, 08:59 PM
How do you switch back and forth with any degree of convenience? Or does the Panny allow a sub to be "switched off"?

Yes the Panny does allow you to turn off the sub, in fact it allows you to change the sub level from the doggone REMOTE which I thought was amusing considering the things you CAN'T do with the remote. Quirky, but grows on you.

Eddie Horton
10-02-2005, 02:27 PM
I'm really thinking about buying something like this for a budget 2 channel system for the new house. My other equipment will be going downstairs in the dedicated theater. The only thing I want to run will be a pair of mains, maybe a sub, and a pair or two of outdoor speakers. Does it have a selectable "speaker a" and "speaker b" switch to accomodate two sets of speakers? If not, does it have a "party" type DSP mode which will play the same signal out of all 5 or 7 speakers?

bikeman
10-02-2005, 03:17 PM
Does it have a selectable "speaker a" and "speaker b" switch to accomodate two sets of speakers? If not, does it have a "party" type DSP mode which will play the same signal out of all 5 or 7 speakers?
It will do "a" & "b" speakers but it dosen't have a "party" mode.

David

Eddie Horton
10-02-2005, 03:28 PM
David, do you think this would make a good receiver for what I wanted to use it for?

Eddie
10-02-2005, 04:17 PM
I'm really thinking about buying something like this for a budget 2 channel system for the new house.

BEWARE: you just might find yourself moving the xr55 to your MAIN system, and/or selling off your current main system receiver for a second xr55! :eek:

Eddie Horton
10-02-2005, 04:56 PM
If it had pre-outs for my external amps and better bass management, that might be the case.

Eddie
10-02-2005, 05:01 PM
If it had pre-outs for my external amps and better bass management, that might be the case.

You might find that you don't need the extra amps, this little thing has ungodly amounts of power.

As for bass management, if you really want it I suppose you could always get one of these:

http://www.hsustore.com/high-pass.html

Just an idea.

Eddie Horton
10-02-2005, 05:15 PM
True, Eddie. Bikeman said this thing didn't have a "party" music mode, but after a little digging I found some info on Panasonic's web site that said it did. Actually, I'd believe Bikeman over Panny's web page, as I've seen many manufacturer sites that are out of date or have conflicting info.

bikeman
10-02-2005, 05:53 PM
True, Eddie. Bikeman said this thing didn't have a "party" music mode, but after a little digging I found some info on Panasonic's web site that said it did. Actually, I'd believe Bikeman over Panny's web page, as I've seen many manufacturer sites that are out of date or have conflicting info.
Here's the manual, Eddie. I could be wrong.
http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/SAXR55.PDF

David

bikeman
10-02-2005, 06:10 PM
David, do you think this would make a good receiver for what I wanted to use it for?

The 55 is an outstanding two channel receiver. I haven't used the "b" speaker setting so I can't comment on that. In two channel, you can bi-wire, bi-amp or dual amp. It's got power to spare. I also use it to listen to Internet Radio and it made a noticeable difference compared to my other receivers (Kenwood, Yamaha, JVC).
This is the best value in a receiver I have ever come accoss in my almost four decades in and out of the audio hobby. It dosen't do everything, especially on the video side but what it does do, it does extremely well. It gets my vote.

David

Eddie Horton
10-02-2005, 06:36 PM
Thanks, David. I'm ordering one.

fastbike
10-02-2005, 06:46 PM
If it had pre-outs for my external amps and better bass management, that might be the case.

What are you looking for in bass management? I would think setting mains to small and the crossover to 80Hz would work well? Unfortunately have no experience w/ this since I'm waiting for my Ascends to arrive.

Eddie
10-03-2005, 12:29 AM
What are you looking for in bass management? I would think setting mains to small and the crossover to 80Hz would work well? Unfortunately have no experience w/ this since I'm waiting for my Ascends to arrive.

Actually with my 340s I would have really liked a 60Hz or even 40Hz crossover setting. Right now I have them set on "large" and they deliver wonderfully tight quick bass with the xr55 though obviously not nearly as low as I *wish.* :rolleyes:

Eddie
10-03-2005, 12:32 AM
as for the "party" mode (called "Multi-channel" on my Marantz 5400) I have not been able to find that on the Panny either.

Eddie Horton
10-03-2005, 06:33 PM
What are you looking for in bass management? I would think setting mains to small and the crossover to 80Hz would work well? Unfortunately have no experience w/ this since I'm waiting for my Ascends to arrive.

If the Panny had pre-outs and was going to replace my current receiver-used-as-processor, I'd prefer that it had different crossover points for each speaker set. The 340's would get 60Hz, as that's what I like best, and the 170's would get 80Hz. Since this will be for a two channel only system, with the "B" speaker inputs running some outdoor speakers for the deck, it doesn't really matter. This isn't really for critical listening, just something for upstairs and outside that gives solid performance for the buck and is fairly easy for the wife to use.

fastbike
10-03-2005, 07:09 PM
If the Panny had pre-outs and was going to replace my current receiver-used-as-processor, I'd prefer that it had different crossover points for each speaker set. The 340's would get 60Hz, as that's what I like best, and the 170's would get 80Hz. Since this will be for a two channel only system, with the "B" speaker inputs running some outdoor speakers for the deck, it doesn't really matter. This isn't really for critical listening, just something for upstairs and outside that gives solid performance for the buck and is fairly easy for the wife to use.

Thanks for the info. This is one place where I think the Panny price shows its ugly head. Although, if it was ~$300 instead of $230, I'd probably be more cautious. Perhaps sensible marketing to get a following at this price point and more features at a higher price when performance is accepted.

bikeman
10-03-2005, 08:07 PM
This is one place where I think the Panny price shows its ugly head. Although, if it was ~$300 instead of $230, I'd probably be more cautious. Perhaps sensible marketing to get a following at this price point and more features at a higher price when performance is accepted.
Features are the only reason to spend three or four times as much. I would certainly like more base management but I'm not spending big bucks just to get that one feature. I believe it was Curtis who perferred the 80hz crossover to the 60hz with the 340's. The Panny is a great value. Not an ultimate by any means.

David

curtis
10-03-2005, 09:37 PM
Yeah...that was me.

In my room at the time, I had some kind of interaction between the mains and sub when crossed at 60hz...I got a boomy sound. I have since moved my sub and that boominess is gone with a 60hz crossover.

Unfortunately, my pre/pro has a global crossover setting for all the speakers, so now I keep it at 80hz to benefit the 170's.

bikeman
10-04-2005, 05:22 AM
From an upgrade standpoint, one of the things that's attractive about this new type of reciever and amps is the price. With so much less invested, the decesion to upgrade is made a lot easier. Base management is constantly being discussed on the audio groups and that could translate into it being incorporated at lower price points at some juncture. I'd pay double for this receiver if it came with a tweakable BM program. 65hz for the 340's, 80hz for the 170 and 100hz for the 200's should just about do it.

David

fastbike
10-04-2005, 05:44 AM
From an upgrade standpoint, one of the things that's attractive about this new type of reciever and amps is the price. With so much less invested, the decesion to upgrade is made a lot easier. Base management is constantly being discussed on the audio groups and that could translate into it being incorporated at lower price points at some juncture. I'd pay double for this receiver if it came with a tweakable BM program. 65hz for the 340's, 80hz for the 170 and 100hz for the 200's should just about do it.

David

Well stated. Those are my thoughts as well. Audio performance is my prime consideration, connections and features secondary. My setup is basic 5.1 so the Panny connections work as is. Since I'll be on 170s and leaning toward another pair for surround, the 80hz for bass will also work well. Given the performance others have experienced (dying for the 170/340c to arrive), an incredible bargain.

If I haven't said it before, love the Ascend community!

bikeman
10-04-2005, 05:37 PM
The 55 has pluses and minuses. I'll use it for at least a month before putting my Kenwood back in the main system. I don't expect to hear much difference but we'll see in September. The Panny did seem brighter when I first hooked it up but I've adapted to it. When I switch back, it will be interesting to see if I have a preference. This is not a fool proof method but it's what works best for me.
OK. I did the "switch back." It's not worth a write up. The Panny is superior. Period. I have no idea about long term durability but at this price, two years out of the Panny would still make it a bargain although I hope that dosen't turn out to be the case.

David

funkyflush
10-05-2005, 10:14 AM
Hi,

I'm new to the forum and waiting on my new Ascends(3rd in line for the Oct 10th parts!). I recently purchased a Pioneer 815 with autosetup, when I thought I would be getting the speakers sooner. I am probably going to return that and get the xr-55 because of all the good things I hear about it. It's also a bit cheaper.

I do have some questions.

What do I need to do to setup the XR-55, the 815 has autosetup and it seems be doing a lot of test tones. I am using my old Cambridge Soundworks speakers and the autosetup seems to do a really good job compared to the really old bundled Dolby digital decoder. Will I need to get an SPL meter? Will the manual setup sound as good as the autosetup?

Also, I would like to know how usable is the remote. I would need it to switch from CableBox to DVD to Xbox(component connection) and CD Player.

I am also considering the Pioneer 1015, I hear it has good autosetup and it uses the Elite line components.

My receiver choices are:
Pioneer 815
Pioneer 1015
Panasonic XR-55

Not in that order. I am leaning towards the XR-55 if the manual configuration is easy to do and the remote is decent. The small footprint of the XR-55 is a plus.

Thanks.

bikeman
10-05-2005, 12:20 PM
Not in that order. I am leaning towards the XR-55 if the manual configuration is easy to do and the remote is decent. The small footprint of the XR-55 is a plus.
Thanks.

It's a lousy remote and there is no auto set-up on the XR-55. I used an SPL meter and AVIA to set it up.

David

funkyflush
10-05-2005, 01:38 PM
It's a lousy remote and there is no auto set-up on the XR-55. I used an SPL meter and AVIA to set it up.

David

Thanks for the input. Does the remote do basic commands? Component switching, basic tv/dvd operations? I don't mind if it doesn't have advanced functions on it.

I guess this is subjective, but from what I hear, the sound quality should be much better than the pioneer 815 I currently have? It's the quality vs. convienience factor for me. If the quality is noticeable, I can deal with the more complicated setup. If the quality is not, then it's much easier to keep what I have. Also, if the quality of the 1015 is better than the panasonic, I would pay more for the convienience and better remote.

I guess the HK 335 is about the same price as the 1015, so if I spend more, I would have more choices and research to do.

Too bad I have until this weekend to keep/return the 815 and I will not have my Ascends until after the 17th of this month. I would like to do a side by side comparison.

Thanks for the help.

bikeman
10-05-2005, 02:37 PM
The remote runs basic TV which is also a Panny. It is not a universal remote so it does not do DVD player,etc. It also dosen't do menu settings on the recevier itself. The remote sucks.
The only way I can tell a difference with anything but speakers is to listen to it for a month and then go back and listen to what I'd been used to before. That's the only way I could tell that the Panny was better (for me) than my Kenwood. I would not expect to find much of an acoustic difference between the Kenwood and the 1015. They have a lot in common. The 1015, being newer, has more features.
Before I listened to the Panny, I've felt that buying a recevier based on features was a better way to go that on preceived differences in sound. I still feel that way about analog amps in general but the digital amp is a different animal and I've probably bought my last analog amp in this lifetime. If I had a bunch more disposable income, I might still consider an analog amp.
The quality of the 55 is unknown. It's brand new. By the time it has a reliable track record, it'll be history. It's a gamble with any relatively new, relatively low cost piece of electronics.
My sense is that you'd be happier with the 1015. Lotta folks think it's a heck of a receiver at it's price point.

David

Eddie
10-05-2005, 09:59 PM
I am probably going to return that and get the xr-55 because of all the good things I hear about it. It's also a bit cheaper.

What do I need to do to setup the XR-55, the 815 has autosetup and it seems be doing a lot of test tones. I am using my old Cambridge Soundworks speakers and the autosetup seems to do a really good job compared to the really old bundled Dolby digital decoder. Will I need to get an SPL meter? Will the manual setup sound as good as the autosetup?

Also, I would like to know how usable is the remote. I would need it to switch from CableBox to DVD to Xbox(component connection) and CD Player.

I am also considering the Pioneer 1015, I hear it has good autosetup and it uses the Elite line components.

I am leaning towards the XR-55 if the manual configuration is easy to do and the remote is decent.

The $40 Radioshack SPL meter and the Avia calibration DVD is all you'll need for the setup. If you have Netflix you can rent the Avia DVD. I've read a fair number of complaints about the lack of accuracy by the automated setup features especially on the low- and mid-priced AVRs so doing it manually might be better anyhow.

The remote is definitely one of the limitations of the Panasonic, but if it really bothers you, universal remotes are pretty cheap these days and the Panny is already saving you a good $100-200 compared to the HK335 or Pio 1015 so no biggie.

The Pioneer 1015 is certainly better than the 815 but probably doesn't have the same sound quality as the xr55...it certainly does have more features though. Its similarity to the Elite line is limited to the entry level model, from what I've read and there's some debate as to exactly how identical it is. David is correct about these Panny digitals being very new and not time-tested (like plasma TVs), but let me add that I also occasionally see 1014/1015 owners posting about reliability issues about 1 year later on the hometheaterforum.com so I don't think it's perfect either.

Ease of use...probably about the same between the 1015 and xr55, which is to say not as good as it could be. Onkyo and Sony usually have the most user-friendly interfaces and manuals (my Onkyo 601 definitely did, I barely had to skim the manual once), unfortunately not much else.

If you're ordering the xr55 online and have to return the 815 before it arrives, I'd just go out and buy another analog receiver in that price range like the 1015 to do an AB comparison with. (There are a small number of people who simply prefer analog to digital sound, just as there are some who swear that no CD can sound as good as an LP.) That way you can come away being 100% sure you made the right choice.

funkyflush
10-06-2005, 09:14 AM
Thanks for the good advice.

I am now considering getting a Harmony remote + XR-55 + SPL meter as an option. That would be the path I take if I get more into this hobby, the 1015 or HK choices would be the path I take just to have the easiest setup with least headache.

More toys is always the way to go. The Harmony 659 is only 94.99 at Costco and they have a great return policy. I will take the advice and get an analog receiver from a local B&M and compare with the XR-55.

Now all I need are my Ascends. I got 340 LCR, 170 rears, and the STF-2 sub.

I will post my thoughts on the setup when I get it.

lei@forum
10-06-2005, 10:42 AM
Thanks for the good advice.

I am now considering getting a Harmony remote + XR-55 + SPL meter as an option. That would be the path I take if I get more into this hobby, the 1015 or HK choices would be the path I take just to have the easiest setup with least headache.

More toys is always the way to go. The Harmony 659 is only 94.99 at Costco and they have a great return policy. I will take the advice and get an analog receiver from a local B&M and compare with the XR-55.

Now all I need are my Ascends. I got 340 LCR, 170 rears, and the STF-2 sub.

I will post my thoughts on the setup when I get it.

That sounds like a very good combination. Any Harmony will be miles better
than any remotes that come with a receiver and as for a SPL meter, IMHO,
is a necessity whether your receiver can do AutoSetup/RoomEQ or not.

I also got the same set of speakers (340 Front/Center + 170 Rear + STF-2),
haven't received them yet, not sure though, I'm before our after you in the
waiting list. For the receiver, I got a HK435 from harmanaudio (refurbished
with full harman kardon warranty), which costed me $415 + S/H. I'm now
having a little bit buyer's remorse...maybe I should have got the panny XR55
instead...

Let's hope the speakers arrive soon.

Lei

funkyflush
10-06-2005, 12:42 PM
That sounds like a very good combination. Any Harmony will be miles better
than any remotes that come with a receiver and as for a SPL meter, IMHO,
is a necessity whether your receiver can do AutoSetup/RoomEQ or not.

I also got the same set of speakers (340 Front/Center + 170 Rear + STF-2),
haven't received them yet, not sure though, I'm before our after you in the
waiting list. For the receiver, I got a HK435 from harmanaudio (refurbished
with full harman kardon warranty), which costed me $415 + S/H. I'm now
having a little bit buyer's remorse...maybe I should have got the panny XR55
instead...

Let's hope the speakers arrive soon.

Lei

I pulled the trigger on the Harmony 659/XR55 combination. The Harmony remote is pretty neat. It even has codes for my fan. There is a demo from the logitech site that lets you configure all of your equipment. It has codes for the XR55 and organizes things into 'activities' The TV viewing activity will power up the tv, the xr55, set the right component, and turn on the Cable box. All with 1 button. Sounds like a winner to me.

So for $225(xr55) + $95(remote) + $40(spl meter) = $360, include the Ascend setup that we both have. It's a really nice system for under 2k. A whole system for the price of a nice analog receiver. Can't beat that.

Thanks again for the help. I hope my speakers come soon too.

tom3
12-06-2005, 02:22 AM
Hi there,
Sorry to revive an old thread, but this is the best place to be posting this question it seems.

With the 80Hz crossover being the lowest on the XR55, does that mean it will not be sending any signal below that over to the speakers, which results in the mid-low bass of the 340's (or the improved lower 340 SE's) being completely unused and wasted? or can setting the speakers to "large" as opposed to "small" help?

thanks

bikeman
12-06-2005, 04:48 AM
With the 80Hz crossover being the lowest on the XR55, does that mean it will not be sending any signal below that over to the speakers, which results in the mid-low bass of the 340's (or the improved lower 340 SE's) being completely unused and wasted? or can setting the speakers to "large" as opposed to "small" help?
The crossover is not a brick wall. It's a slope. For music and the 340's, I feel 80hz is too high so I don't use a sub. Maybe with a better sub I'd change my mind but I don't think so. That's why the new SE's appeal to me. I can get lower extension without the sub.
I have a new sub coming next week so I'll give it a try with music.

David

Beuby
01-15-2006, 04:32 PM
In my mania to order/not order an XR-55 I'd forgotten this thread... can you post your findings with the sub?

bikeman
01-15-2006, 08:01 PM
In my mania to order/not order an XR-55 I'd forgotten this thread... can you post your findings with the sub?
Don't waste your time on this sub.

David

Beuby
01-15-2006, 09:07 PM
Many thanks... my listening room is such that I shouldn't need a sub anyway. Now, to wait patiently for the 340SEs...

BTW, small world. I'm located in Auburn.

rajacat
01-15-2006, 09:10 PM
Bikeman... Well in a couple of days I will be able to test the "sub" (Soundcrafter) and hear how it supplements my 340SE's. I will do some minor mods , acoustical stuffing and fairing the port holes. I do not have high hopes. Lately I have been exploring some DYI prospects with the most interesting being the Rythmik Audio servo sub, thttp://www.rythmikaudio.com/index.htmhe sealed version.
I take it that you have had no success with the Soundcrafter.

bikeman
01-16-2006, 05:55 AM
I take it that you have had no success with the Soundcrafter.
Sound-Bridge advertised the cabinet as being much larger than it actually is. If I had known the actual size of the cabinet, I wouldn't have ordered it. I had planned to do some mods but the speaker won't come out no matter what I do so I'm just using it as is. I don't use it for music but it helps with movies. I would only recommend it to someone who dosen't have a sub and can only spend $100. dollars. I got what I paid for but not what was advertised.

David

bikeman
01-16-2006, 06:22 AM
BTW, small world. I'm located in Auburn.
Let me know if you want to show off your new speakers. I'm usually up for a road trip. I've been meaning to check out the Bass Pro Shop to see what the buzz is all about.

David

Beuby
01-16-2006, 12:52 PM
Let me know if you want to show off your new speakers. I'm usually up for a road trip. I've been meaning to check out the Bass Pro Shop to see what the buzz is all about.

David

Will do... XR-55 should arrive mid-week and about 2 weeks for the 340SEs. Oh yes, must not forget the stands...

OT: Bass Pro is heaven for "sportsmen", more a curiosity for me. Still, it's worth a visit.

muzz
12-30-2006, 09:19 AM
Anyone here try the XR57?
It can be gotten for less than 3 beans nowadays.

I never owned a digital Amp before, and I am wondering if it will be better than my Yamaha HTR-5550 in sound reproduction.

Some folks say the older Yammys(mine will fall into that category- it's probably 4-5 yrs old) are a bit bright.

The 5550 has plenty of power in my small room, it's rated at 75X5, and it will split your head open in my room, so the slight upgrade in power means nothing to me, I am aware of the need to jump quite a bit more for a real perceived loudness level, but as I said it doesn't matter, 75X5 is plenty already.
RF Amplification is the same, the need for ALOT more power to get to the next level is astounding(I know this from building RF Linear Amplifiers in the past)

Anyone here ever tested the XR57 vs a modern Yammy AVR?
If so, what were your conclusions?

This would be driven by a Toshiba HD-A1 HDDVD player, that I also use as a CD transport. I use both the 5.1 analogs, and the Optical out to my current Yammy.

Thx

m

bikeman
12-30-2006, 10:09 AM
Anyone here ever tested the XR57 vs a modern Yammy AVR?

I did compare the XR-55 to a Yamaha CR-840 but that won't be of much value here. I bought the 840 in 1980. ;)


If so, what were your conclusions?
It's a tough call. There won't be a night and day difference so the only way to find out is try it yourself. I replaced a Kenwood receiver that was very close to the Yamaha. I doubt I could have told the difference sound wise between those two. I like the Panny a bit more but I sacrificed some features in the trade-off. I've read a hundred opinions on the Panny and they're all over the place in their conclusions. If you buy the Panny from someone with a good return policy, it's worth the effort to compare. I'd be real interested in your impressions and I'm sure several others here would be as well.

David

muzz
12-30-2006, 10:27 AM
Hey Dave,

I am reading the huge threads over at AVS, Duaner seems to have changed his initial reaction....

One of the things I was hoping to be able do is Bass management, My 5550 is very weak at this, it does NOT allow me to set XOvers per channel, it only allows large or small, meaning small gets 90hz, and thats it!!

I was hoping I could get per channel management, but it seems it will give you more frequency options, but they are across the board once selected.
The HD-A1 has issues with BM, so I was hoping to be able and tune it the way I wanted, seems a no-go :(

I also was hoping to get something that I could drop to 60HZ if I wanted, am I right in thinking the 57 only allows down to 80 hz?

The reason I was looking at the 57 is price, IF I buy a new AVR, I don't wanna spend alot, I don't need video upconversion or anything like that, but the HDMI input is wanted(hence the 55 being out of the question), in case I need it to get TrueHD or something like that(the HD-A2 doesn't have analog outs, I think the A1 is the last VG and CHEAP player that will get them for awhile). Toshiba smartened up and took them out of the $400 model this time!! I guarantee they lost $ with folks buying the A1 instead of the XA1.
If the A1 craps out on me, I will need the HDMI input, and I thought that I saw you could apply BM if using the HDMI interface(analogs are a no-go?)

Thanks for your help, those threads over there are huge, 3 day reading sessions!!

m

bikeman
12-30-2006, 10:57 AM
I also was hoping to get something that I could drop to 60HZ if I wanted, am I right in thinking the 57 only allows down to 80 hz?
Yep. 80hz is as low as she goes. If I could make just one change to the 55, it would be a lower crossover.

David

muzz
12-30-2006, 11:02 AM
Thanks David

bikeman
03-18-2007, 03:49 PM
Just fried my 55. Don't know what happened but it now displays "overload" and then shuts off. May we have a moment of silence for the dearly departed. :(

David

chas
03-18-2007, 05:02 PM
Sorry to hear that David. So what's next after the wake?

debo
03-18-2007, 06:02 PM
That Bites

drewface
03-18-2007, 06:34 PM
bummer, dude... :(

bikeman
03-18-2007, 07:23 PM
Sorry to hear that David. So what's next after the wake?

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-SA-XR57K-Digital-Theater-Receiver/dp/B000FZ1X1K/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-2333646-8682563?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1174267321&sr=8-2

David

sensibull
07-24-2007, 12:52 PM
Reiviving this thread to ask for feedback re: the quality of the radio tuner in the SA-55. My in-laws have asked me to update their ridiculously outdated stereo system to take advantage of their so-called "surround sound" (four speakers in the ceiling) and I think the Panny's minimalist size and affordability would appeal to them, but I'd hate to look like a goof if something as elementary as the radio didn't work quite right out of the box.

Beuby
07-24-2007, 01:27 PM
I have no complaints about the FM reception though I do live in a remote area and don't expect crystal clarity on all stations. I'm only using an indoor "T" antenna as well, nothing like a Terk, etc. let alone something roof-mounted.

svenyun
07-24-2007, 02:10 PM
I have mine in a tv stand near the floor so my receptions is not great (a longer antenna would fix this). However my parents have theirs in the top of a stereo cabinet near the ceiling, and have no problems picking up stations with the stock antennas.

sensibull
07-25-2007, 05:44 AM
Thanks for the feedback guys. One more question: do you happen to know if the Panny has a phantom center channel option?