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Nicholas Mosher
07-27-2005, 11:26 AM
My 7mo old Denon 2900 has ben acting up every once in a while. Only on DVDs.

Sometimes when vieiwng a DVD, the image & audio will freeze for a few seconds or skip frames and jitter. It does it once or twice a month, even with new DVDs fresh out of the wrapper. It plays audio CDs, SACD, and DVD-A titles flawlessly, it's just every once in a while on movies it screws up. Sometimes ejecting the DVD and restarting clears up the problem, but it usually happens at an in-opertune time.

I just called Listen-Up (at my expense), the eTailer I purchased it from. I was told that all warranty work is done through Denon, and I must speak with them. I just finished placing 27 phone calls with Marantz/Denon, with no help but a secretary who kept forwarding my calls to an automated service which gave me answering machines, many of which had full mailboxes.

Placed two more calls to Listen-Up at my expense. I was told that I could ship it to them, and they would ship it to Denon. Turn-around would be 4-8wks. I asked for an equivalent replacement, and he told me that they will not replace it. Then I told him I was kind of upset being stuck with a paperweight that has a $1000 MSRP, and that I have to wait 2 months before I even get it back. He said "Sorry".

I will never own a Denon or Marantz product again. Let it be known they are hereby on my $#!T list. I'll use this unit for now, but having it skip/lockup at random once a month while watching a DVD shows how much quality Denon places into their trash.

I'm ready to crack some skulls. I feel like going out and voting for a bunch of neo-con republicans.

Some warranty. "Yeah we'll fix it, you should have it back around late September/Early October". Man am I ticked off right now. I'm so sour I'm not sure I want to even purchase a PJ tomorrow. Now I can't sleep either.

I wish Ascend Acoustics and SVS made everything I need for HT.

BradJudy
07-27-2005, 12:02 PM
Did you try calling your local authorized service center? You can look it up on Denon's website. ListenUp is actually a local place for me, but I have never bought anything through them.

curtis
07-27-2005, 12:28 PM
Have you tried one of those lens cleaning kits/devices?

bikeman
07-27-2005, 12:48 PM
I had a similar problem with my first Toshiba DVD player. It cost me a hundred bucks new and lasted for four years before it started this behavior so I got my money's worth out of it. I still have the unit as a back-up in case one of my newer units goes kaput but that hasn't happened.
I tried lots of fixes including what Curtis suggests but it was to no avail. Hope you have better luck.
Good DVD player can be had for well under a hundred. Why not pick one up for use while the Denon is in the shop and then you'll have it as a back-up in the furture or for a second unit when you buy a house and get married and can't do all those fun things you do now. ;)

David

Nicholas Mosher
07-27-2005, 12:59 PM
Bruce Neher from Listen-Up just eMailed me and offered to replace my defective 2900 with an Open Box 2910. I'm still out my entire afternoon, 3 long distance phone calls, and return shipping for the 2900 to Colorado, but atleast they have now made an effort to resolve my problem.

I'm hoping I won't lose much in my DVD-A and SACD playback by stepping down to the 2910 (the 2900 is compared to the 3910), but there is no way I will wait 2 months for Denon to fart around with my 2900.

Chalk a good one up for Listen-Up.

But Denon has dropped the ball in my book...
Still holding by my previous statement of not purchasing another new product by Denon/Marantz though. Not getting through with 27 phone calls and having a 4-8wk repair turnaround on defective items they manufacture ranks right up there with Enron.

Kurt C.
07-27-2005, 01:01 PM
Hi Nick,

Sorry to hear about your problems with the 2900. How close are you to getting your projector? If it has DVI, I might think of picking up one of these to tide you over for watching DVDs.

Oppo Digital DVI player (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all&type=&manufacturer=68&maxprice=0&deInt=0&mpeg=0)

Under $200 MSRP and its video section rivals that of the Denon DVD-5900. I hate to see you accept an inferior player or pay for an expensive new universal player when Blu-Ray/HD-DVD is on the not too distant horizon.

Nicholas Mosher
07-27-2005, 01:24 PM
The 2900 has better D/A converters from the comparisons I've read.

I guess I might gain some quality on the video end though, as the 2910 has HDMI out while the 2900 only has component.

I'm shipping my 2900 out tomorrow. Hopefully the 2910 will get to me by the time I get the PJ.

curtis
07-27-2005, 02:00 PM
I am glad there is somewhat of a happy ending.

Looking forward to your thoughts between the two. Too bad you won't have a chance to compare the projector image. I have read posts that say the 2900 has a better image and posts that the 2910 has a better image.....component vs DVI.

Kurt C.
07-27-2005, 02:54 PM
The video section of DVD players of similar quality can be rigorously compared. I like the approach of hometheater HiFi, where all DVD players are run through a series of tests designed to mimic the most challenging situations a DVD player might encounter. DVD Benchmark shootout (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi).

If only we could do something similar with the audio section of universal players like the 2900 and 2910! Short of setting up a double-blind ABX comparison, it is basically impossible to objectively compare the sound of two different DACs.

Fortunately we have Nick, whose honesty we can trust because he has an unparalleled drive to spend as much time, effort, and money as necessary to get the best possible sound/visual experience BUT...not one cent more.

I look forward to learning from a reliable source whether the cheaper DACs in the 2910 result in a noticible difference in sound. Here's to Nick!

bikeman
07-27-2005, 04:31 PM
DAC's are a mature technology. Mature technologies seldom have much variation except from a marketing standpoint. Earlier this year I auditoned a number of external DAC's. It got me exploring the issue quite a bit.
I would love to conduct ABX testing using a group of folks who are convinced there's a difference between DAC's and a group who feel a DAC is a DAC. We have all the equipment and all the knowledge necessary here on campus to conduct the testing. All we'd need is a grant and volunteers.
Who would fund such a study? Any ideas?

David

Kurt C.
07-27-2005, 04:54 PM
After a little goggling, I discovered that it's already been done. Over 20 years ago. An ABX comparison was done to see whether listeners could differentiate between music output as a straight, all analog signal and the same music after it had been sent through a loop which contained an analog to digital converter AND a DAC.

detailed account of the test (http://hometheaterhifi.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-2520.html)

No discernable differences were found. Granted, both converters were 'state of the art', but that was state of the art 20 years ago. I assume DACs are even better now.

Once mid-fi or better source/pre/pro/amps are in place,I guess the only real place place the place to go looking for bliss is in great speakers, proper setup, and improving the acoustics of the listening room.

bikeman
07-27-2005, 06:39 PM
Once mid-fi or better source/pre/pro/amps are in place,I guess the only real place place the place to go looking for bliss is in great speakers, proper setup, and improving the acoustics of the listening room.

Thanks for the link. I hadn't come accross that in my searches. What you've written above is exactly how I'm looking at things these days. I still want to experiment as much as I can with whatever I can get my hands on but I don't do most things with the expectation that it will produce a favorable result.
Alan Lofft, who was present at these tests, is affiliated with Axiom Audio and their newsletter (which can be accessed on their website) that came out today addresses the issue of DACs in DVD/CD players.

David

mattepntr
07-27-2005, 10:49 PM
That DAC comparison doesn't really surprise me because, as we all
know, it's the POWER CORD that really makes your system sing...:p

Kurt C.
07-28-2005, 06:27 AM
This tidbit of wisdom about the power cord is, in fact, true.

An even less known fact is that if the listener has particularly "Golden" ears, wrapping the power cord around their neck can result in an even more pronounced improvement in sound quality. :D

bikeman
07-28-2005, 07:57 AM
:D

David