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LoneAspen
07-23-2005, 09:08 AM
Hi - new member here.

I'm buying a new home and am planning my HT setup. This will the first HT I've set up, and will be in a 12x18 room with 8' ceiling. It will be used almost entirely for viewing movies (front projector system), no CD or audio listening. Also, no close neighbors to worry about.

That said, after doing tons of research, Ascend is in the top spot for me to audition once I get the rest of my gear set up. I was planning on going with a 7.1 system with 340s as L/C/R, and 170s for the surrounds, with the STF1 sub.

But with a 12x18 room, with the projector throwing the image down the longer dimension, that means the two middle surrounds would be pretty close to the seating area. So would 7.1 even make sense in a 12x18 room? Or would I be better off just doing 5.1 and trying to ensure all five speakers are as equidistant from the seating area as possible? I'm concerned if I try for 7.1, because the room is more rectangular than square, the two center surrounds will be too close.

Also, somebody on the AVSFORUM suggested instead of 340s as L/R I could use 170s in a room that size. Having 340s for L/C/R appeals to me, but would they be too overpowering in that room size? Would it be better to go with 170s for L/R and just the 340 as a center?

Thanks for any help! I look forward to trying these out when I get ready to build my system.

Lou-the-dog
07-23-2005, 09:41 AM
Hi - new member here.

I'm buying a new home and am planning my HT setup. This will the first HT I've set up, and will be in a 12x18 room with 8' ceiling. It will be used almost entirely for viewing movies (front projector system), no CD or audio listening. Also, no close neighbors to worry about.

That said, after doing tons of research, Ascend is in the top spot for me to audition once I get the rest of my gear set up. I was planning on going with a 7.1 system with 340s as L/C/R, and 170s for the surrounds, with the STF1 sub.

But with a 12x18 room, with the projector throwing the image down the longer dimension, that means the two middle surrounds would be pretty close to the seating area. So would 7.1 even make sense in a 12x18 room? Or would I be better off just doing 5.1 and trying to ensure all five speakers are as equidistant from the seating area as possible? I'm concerned if I try for 7.1, because the room is more rectangular than square, the two center surrounds will be too close.

Also, somebody on the AVSFORUM suggested instead of 340s as L/R I could use 170s in a room that size. Having 340s for L/C/R appeals to me, but would they be too overpowering in that room size? Would it be better to go with 170s for L/R and just the 340 as a center?

Thanks for any help! I look forward to trying these out when I get ready to build my system.

The 340's will be great in that room! If they fit your budget then stick with it.

I'm not sure if I'm following you, but what I'm thinking is that your seating position is tight up against the back wall and you are concerned that the rear surrounds would be blowing over the top of your head.? In my room my seating position is too close to the right surround and this does happen. I have to point the surround down to get decent results for my position but this then compromises the other listening positions.

It has been suggested before that going from a 5.1 to a 7.1 does not yield alot of difference. I'd REALLY suggest that you stick with a 5.1 system and spend the extra bucks on a larger sub...perhaps a VTF3/MKII. I really believe you will yield much more enjoyment out of this than a couple more surrounds.

Randy

Eddie Horton
07-23-2005, 09:50 AM
First, welcome to the forum. For a room that size, I'd go with 340's for L/C/R and 170's for surrounds. A 7.1 configuration isn't a bad idea for a room that size. The side surrounds are not supposed to be equidistant from the front 3 speakers for a movie setup. They are supposed to be for a multi-channel music setup, but that doesn't appear to be your thing. For a movie setup, the side surround channels should be above your head, slightly behind the primary seating area, on the side walls facing inward. The rear surround channels should be on the back wall spaced about 6ft. apart. Check out www.dolby.com
Don't worry if the side surround speakers are close to you. You will be equalizing the levels with your receiver so all speakers sound equally loud at the primary listening position. The only other suggestion that I would make would be to get a larger sub. I don't think the STF-1 would work for a room of that size. You're going to have a killer setup with the 340's and 170's, plus a front projection system. Don't skimp on the sub. Think VTF-2 or VTF-3. You won't regret it. IMO, the STF-1 and 2 are great for a 2 channel system to augment the mains on that last octave for music. However, for a movie setup, you'll need that extra oomph for the low frequency content in movies today. Let us know what you end up doing and how it turns out. Oh, and don't be too sure that you won't use the Ascends for music. I didn't think I would either.

LoneAspen
07-23-2005, 09:51 AM
Sorry, I should have clarified more about the setup...

Here's a drawing of the room:




12'
-----------
|L C R|
| screen |
| |
| |
|S seat S| 18'
| |
| proj |
|S S|
-----------



I was worried that the two surround speakers on either side of the seating area would be too close to the listeners. The L/C/R and two rear surrounds are okay, but the side surrounds might be too close in a 7.1 setup, so that's why I was thinking 5.1 might be adequate?

If 7.1 would be a waste of speakers and the side surrounds too close to the listerners anyway, then I would probably spend the $$$ on a nicer sub.

Thanks!

EDIT: Looks like the consensus is so far I need a bigger sub :) It sounds like a bigger sub would add more value than a pair of side surrounds. As far as not using the setup for music, I'm sure it would be awesome for music, I'm just not much of a music listener. This setup will probably be 100% used for multichannel movie viewing. I'm a big movie nut, never got much into music or TV. That's why I've got to reserve about $500 for popcorn machine :)

chas
07-23-2005, 09:56 AM
If you are prewiring I would think about running the wires for 7.1 no matter which way you go. You could start with 5.1 and always add speakers in the future. I would guess the 170s would be more than adequate for mains, but since you are already leaning towards an all 340 front, I would stick with that and eliminate any future doubts that might cloud your mind.

Since your use would be mainly movies, I would agree with Randy that you could save a few bucks on surrounds and step up a notch or two on the subwoofer.

Lou-the-dog
07-23-2005, 10:19 AM
Sorry, I should have clarified more about the setup...

Here's a drawing of the room:




12'
-----------
|L C R|
| screen |
| |
| |
|S seat S| 18'
| |
| proj |
|S S|
-----------



I was worried that the two surround speakers on either side of the seating area would be too close to the listeners. The L/C/R and two rear surrounds are okay, but the side surrounds might be too close in a 7.1 setup, so that's why I was thinking 5.1 might be adequate?

If 7.1 would be a waste of speakers and the side surrounds too close to the listerners anyway, then I would probably spend the $$$ on a nicer sub.

Thanks!

EDIT: Looks like the consensus is so far I need a bigger sub :) It sounds like a bigger sub would add more value than a pair of side surrounds. As far as not using the setup for music, I'm sure it would be awesome for music, I'm just not much of a music listener. This setup will probably be 100% used for multichannel movie viewing. I'm a big movie nut, never got much into music or TV. That's why I've got to reserve about $500 for <a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=11&k=popcorn%20machine" onmouseover="window.status='popcorn machine'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">popcorn machine</a> :)

Ah, OK. The seating position appears forward of the rear wall a fair amount...no problem there. As Eddie mentioned, typically the two surrounds used in a 5.1 settup would be the ones directly to the sides of the seating position and the ones rearward of the seating postion would also be included when running a 7.1 system. If you are REALLY close to the side surrounds as I am in my settup then you might prefer moving the side surrounds back along the side wall some. Unfortunately I don't have this option here due to I am essentially crammed into a corner...so pointing the speaker downward is my only option. Experiment some with placement and you'll find a decent position.

Randy

LoneAspen
07-23-2005, 10:21 AM
Another vote for a bigger sub :)

The basement area is already finished. Unfortunately, I saw the house too late in it's construction to be able to specify wiring. The builders claimed they wired it for an "entertainment center" but that means they ran some incredibly lame thin speaker wire through some holes they drilled in the ceiling. Needless to say, I'm going to cut that wire out and fill the holes because it's totally useless for anything other than the cheapest of speakers.

I'll have to make do with running cables down by the baseboards and over door frames for now until I can come up with a better solution.

After the replies so far, I'm now leaning towards a 5.1 setup for now, and spend the extra $$ on a bigger sub. I can always add another two 170s down the road.

For the record, the other list of components I'm looking at, in case anybody has any thoughts, are:

Projector: Optoma H31
Screen: Graywolf 92"
DVD: Oppo OPDV971H
Receiver: Arcam AVR300
Speakers: Ascend

EDIT: In case anybody mentions the problems the H31 has with DVI output from a PC, that won't affect me. I won't have a PC as a video source. The only source for now will be the DVD player. I don't foresee ever hooking a PC to the system - I'm more a dedicated video-on-DVD kind of viewer, I don't plan on using a PC as a media server of any kind.

Thanks!

Eddie Horton
07-23-2005, 11:38 AM
Looks like you'll have a killer setup. My wife and I are also in the process of building a house that will have a 14x28x9 room for a theater. I'm having the builder just leave that room unfinished so I can do it like I want to. Let us know how everything works out. I'll probably need some hints.

BradJudy
07-23-2005, 11:40 AM
I have a similar room (except 15x22x7.5) and I'm doing 5.1 with CBM-170s x4 and a CMT-340 center. I have the surrounds in the rear postion and think they sound great for 5.1 there.

Either the 170s or the 340s would work fine for mains in that room. Despite everyone loving their 340 mains, I still think the 170 is an excellent main and mine do fine in a larger room than yours.

I also second the recommendations to stick with 5.1 for now and upgrading the sub at least to the STF-2 (I'm using a VTF-2 and the STF-2 should be great in that room).

I also agree that if you're wiring, you might as well put in wire for 7.1.

You can see a layout of my room here: http://www.bradjudy.com/AV123/basement2.gif

The projector isn't marked, but it's hanging above the back middle of the main sofa.

BradJudy
07-23-2005, 11:43 AM
BTW: Are you sure you want a 92" screen in that size room? How far away are you from the screen? I think 76" is perfect in my room (using an InFocus 4805). Sounds like a sweet setup overall.

chas
07-23-2005, 01:18 PM
For anyone interested in the H31, I saw this on Audioholics yesterday:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12329

Lou-the-dog
07-23-2005, 01:32 PM
...that means they ran some incredibly lame thin speaker wire through some holes they drilled in the ceiling. Needless to say, I'm going to cut that wire out and fill the holes because it's totally useless for anything other than the cheapest of speakers.

I'll have to make do with running cables down by the baseboards and over door frames for now until I can come up with a better solution.

If the wires they installed have not been stapled inside the walls/ceiling then you might be able to use the old wires to pull in new more suitable wires. I thought I'd mention this before you start cutting.

Randy

Karp
07-24-2005, 10:05 AM
BTW: Are you sure you want a 92" screen in that size room? How far away are you from the screen? I think 76" is perfect in my room (using an InFocus 4805). Sounds like a sweet setup overall.

The recommended seating distance for a 92" diagonal wide screen is 9'-15', with 12' being optimal. Of course that is for 720P resolution, so you would want to decrease the screen size or sit farther away with a lower resolution display to avoid screen-door or rainbow effects.

hhcan
07-25-2005, 05:06 PM
I have a slightly bigger room 14 X 23 and the high is 8-15 feet. I have 340 for center, 170 for front and 200 for surround and back. The sub is Hsu VTF2-MK2 and believe me, you don't need a bigger sub. This one works great. This setup is great for movie; don't spend extra money on the sub. Either one of the Hsu top 2 subs is perfect.

gr1m
07-25-2005, 10:16 PM
I have a slightly bigger room 14 X 23 and the high is 8-15 feet. I have 340 for center, 170 for front and 200 for surround and back. The sub is Hsu VTF2-MK2 and believe me, you don't need a bigger sub. This one works great. This setup is great for movie; don't spend extra money on the sub. Either one of the Hsu top 2 subs is perfect.

i couldn't agree more. i have a similar sized 15.5' x 20.5' x 9' room and also 170 LR, 340c, 200 surrounds and a PB10 and it's plenty loud. great imaging i tell you man. OT: sure cooled down a bit here in LA today, that wknd was a scorcher!! :eek: