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View Full Version : Saga of Second Zone control with HK 635



lmm
06-04-2005, 11:50 PM
Dave F thought some folks might like to follow the saga of my troubles (http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-harmony/thread.cgi?2189) getting a reasonable setup for the Harman Kardon AVR 635 to turn the "second zone" on and off.

I was 'upgrading' from a receiver with a simple Speaker A / Speaker B buttons. The extra features on the HK635 to have a completely independent 'zone' makes it difficult to control from the main room, and my Harmony remote couldn't overcome that.

sensibull
06-05-2005, 06:17 AM
I've had a similar experience with the 635 trying to set up a zone II on my back deck. My needs are a little less complicated than yours, I think (I'm not switching sources, simply turning zone II off or on and raising/lowering volume). In the end I used the HK remote to teach my cheap learning remote (URC 8811) macros for performing both tasks, but at the moment I need to be in the room with the HK to do this. Once they are back in stock, I will probably be picking up one of these (http://www.surfremotecontrol.com/store/rlrx.html) to extend my range so I can change volume from out back.

I could be wrong (I haven't worked out all your needs in my head) but with the device listed above and assuming you kitchen isn't more than 100 ft. from your HK, couldn't you use your Harmony or any other learning remote to control source components (tv/CD, etc) as well as simply turning Zone II on and off, up or down? Since you already have the second IR receiver setup, I *think* you could use the HK's zone II remote codes to *change* sources as well.

In any case, I definitely agree with your conclusions. The HK's Zone II control does not seem particularly well thought out. As is, the Zone II remote is pretty useless. They should have included the second IR reciever.

p.s. after some checking, I found the remote extender on ubid (http://www.ubid.com/actn/opn/getpage.asp?AuctionId=10410481&s=uwb70000) for $29.99.

sensibull
06-05-2005, 06:40 AM
Almost forgot... please report back (here, preferably) if you ever end up further investigating the use of RS232 to control the HK from an HTPC. This is subject that I am VERY interested in, but don't quite have the tech savvy to trailblaze the whole process myself.

lmm
06-05-2005, 09:45 AM
Could you explain your setup a little more?

When you programmed your learning remote to control Zone 2 from your main room, what commands did you teach it?

As far as I could tell, there was no simple sequence by which I could turn on the "zone 2" amplifier and have it play whatever was being played in zone 1.
And there was no simple IR command to "raise the zone 2 volume" a little, at least from the main room -- you had to do "Multiroom" "down" "set" "up" "set" to raise the volume, for example. The "second remote" for Zone 2 really sent the same IR commands as the main controller, the HK 635 distinguishes which zone is supposed to be controlled by the source of the IR signal.

Currently, I do have pretty full control, from the kitchen, of the zone 2 functions: I can turn it on & off, change the input source, and change the volume, completely independently of zone 1. Changing the input source independently doesn't do much good, since listening to the cable/stereo channels requires being able to change the cable TV station, listening to a CD requires putting a CD in, etc. But at least, if teenage son is playing video games in the living room, it's still possible to listen to the radio in the kitchen.

I used stick-on velcro to attach the second-zone remote to the side of the refrigerator in such a way that it pointed at the IR reciever on top of the cabinets and could be used without removing it. This solved the problem of adding clutter to the kitchen and the risk of losing the second remote.

sensibull
06-06-2005, 09:48 AM
Could you explain your setup a little more?

When you programmed your learning remote to control Zone 2 from your main room, what commands did you teach it?

As far as I could tell, there was no simple sequence by which I could turn on the "zone 2" amplifier and have it play whatever was being played in zone 1.

To turn multi-room on with the main remote, the macro is: Multi > Select > Down > Select. Assuming you have previously set up multi-room for the correct source and amp selection (multi vs. main), and also assuming your source is analog, then the multi room speakers will play the same thing as your main room. I only play music in my Zone II - my source is an HTPC, from which I have run both an optical and an analog line. In the HK, I have designated the optical as "CD" and the analog as "Tape" (so I choose "Tape" as my source in the Multiroom setup). I actually two additional zones -- speakers on the deck powered by the HK, and speakers in the basement powered by another amp. To switch between the two, I do have to go into the HK's multi-room menu and switch from "Main" to "Multi" and vice-versa.



And there was no simple IR command to "raise the zone 2 volume" a little, at least from the main room -- you had to do "Multiroom" "down" "set" "up" "set" to raise the volume, for example. The "second remote" for Zone 2 really sent the same IR commands as the main controller, the HK 635 distinguishes which zone is supposed to be controlled by the source of the IR signal.

You're right. There's no "simple" command. I use another macro, but for convenience I go up or down in 3-click increments, so the macro for that is Multi > Down > Select > Up > Up > Up or Down>Down>Down.

Sounds like you have got the simpler setup. I was just too cheap to spring for the extra IR receiver and had nowhere to put it on the deck anyway.

lmm
06-06-2005, 10:09 AM
I actually two additional zones -- speakers on the deck powered by the HK, and speakers in the basement powered by another amp. To switch between the two, I do have to go into the HK's multi-room menu and switch from "Main" to "Multi" and vice-versa.

I don't quite understand this. You have the speakers on your deck wired to the SB/Multi speaker posts on the back of the HK. If you set the HK to "Main", doesn't that wind up sending them "surround back" signal? Unless you're careful with which dolby/DTS/Logic7 modes you pick?

Do you have the basement amp connected to one of the Tape/Video out signals?

I've found that I can have my HTPC connected optical to Video 2 and also analog to Video 2, and listen to the 5.1 channel output in the main room (as Video 2) and also the analog signal in the second zone (as Video 2).

I don't think it's down-mixing the 5.1 signal for zone 2 stereo, because I got no sound before I hooked up the analog output.

Putting an IR receiver outside might be a problem, even if you have a place for it -- sunlight/heat will interfere with IR reception.

sensibull
06-06-2005, 11:56 AM
I don't quite understand this. You have the speakers on your deck wired to the SB/Multi speaker posts on the back of the HK. If you set the HK to "Main", doesn't that wind up sending them "surround back" signal? Unless you're careful with which dolby/DTS/Logic7 modes you pick?

No. So long as you set the SB speakers to "None/Main" in the speaker menu, then your SB channels operate as independent amps for a set of Zone II speakers (which must be fed an analog source). So my SB/Multi posts feed my deck speakers. Proof that I'm not getting a SB signal is that I can actually hit power off in the main room and still get sound on the deck (the HK shows "Multi On" on its display). For this configuration, the SB Amp must be set to "Multi" in the Multiroom Menu.


Do you have the basement amp connected to one of the Tape/Video out signals?

No, I have the basement amp connected to the Multiroom Audio Out jacks (far right of the audio input section as you're facing the back of the HK). These essentially act as Pre Outs. For this configuration, the SB Amp must be set to "Main" in the Multiroom Menu.


I've found that I can have my HTPC connected optical to Video 2 and also analog to Video 2, and listen to the 5.1 channel output in the main room (as Video 2) and also the analog signal in the second zone (as Video 2).

I don't think it's down-mixing the 5.1 signal for zone 2 stereo, because I got no sound before I hooked up the analog output.

I think you're right -- there is probably no need for me to designate a new title for the analog in ("tape"). It just helps me keep things straight and avoid the possibility of the HK dropping the optical signal and using the analog instead (which seems to happen with my TV often -- some channels are digital and some are not). Perhaps you have turned off "auto-polling" , so this isn't a problem?