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View Full Version : 340s + NAD separates = absolute BLISS!!!



Eddie
06-01-2005, 09:59 PM
OH MY GOD...what the hell happened to my 340s???

sheesh, all this time I thought going from an Onkyo 601 to a Marantz 5400 was a big improvement in music performance...but going from the 5400 to NAD stereo separates (albeit +15 year old vintage ones) has been more like going from a biplane to an F-14!

This thing is just SCARY...rated at a *very* conservative 100wpc, at just barely 1/4 volume (9 o'clock position) it effortlessly and powerfully fills up my 600 square foot listening space with incredibly rich, detailed and vibrant sound that just makes me want to bounce up and down and off the walls! I shudder to think what this beast would do to the Ascends if I or my wife walked by and accidently bumped the knob up past 12 o'clock.

Ah, now I'm finally living that famous old Maxell commercial---you know, the one with the guy sitting in his armchair in front of his stereo and everything is flying past him...!

The Marantz, even in Source Direct mode with an optical input and cranked up to -5 db, couldn't hold a candle to this. Very hard to describe, except that there's like this unbelievable RAW ENERGY flooding out of my L/R speakers, the sheer power and force coupled with its detail and clarity, was just jaw-dropping. I can only compare it to the dynamics of a live performance.

The old cliche about "hearing things you never heard before on old CDs" is definitely true---I already experienced that somewhat when I upgraded to Ascend speakers but the NAD gear just extends and magnifies it TEN-fold!

Only drawback is that since the Ascends really do reveal poor recordings mercilessly, this becomes even more pronounced with a good amp behind them. A lot of classic rock that contains strong accoustic guitar leads ends up sounding thin and bright (John Lennon), in contrast to better quality recent recordings with the same type of guitar (Nirvana Unplugged).

On some recordings I did notice a fair amount of sibilance, strangely even individual songs on the same CD had very different levels of it. For instance Norah Jones' "Come Away With Me" was almost unlistenable due to excessive hiss yet the rest of her songs on the same CD were just fine even though they were tonally similar. (WTF?) First I thought this was the fault of the NAD since some of their receivers have had complaints about hiss, but when I plugged the speakers directly into the Marantz in Source Direct, it was still there, just slightly lower volume. I also realized that I probably never noticed this before because with the Marantz I never *wanted* to turn it up as loud because it just didn't sound anywhere as good at -10db as the NAD does at +10db.

(Just curious, anybody else hear excessive hiss on "Come Away With Me" and not on any other songs on that CD?)

Overall what especially shines is midrange and, most surprisingly, bass. Classical piano and classical guitar are just mind-blowing, jazz and vocals in close second place. I first hooked up my Ascends without the sub, and did a double take---I have NEVER heard so much bass coming out of these speakers which are rated to go down to only 50Hz!

When I did hook up my lowly JBL e150 sub directly to the pre-amp, I found that using the sub's onboard filter produced a much cleaner bass than when I was using the Marantz's filter with the 340s set to "small" and certainly cleaner than the Marantz with the 340s set to "large." The darn thing actually doesn't sound that terrible anymore, maybe I'll keep it after all...at least until Christmas time, heh heh.

Was listening to some Dinah Washington tonight, and at one point I looked up because I could've SWORN that her voice was coming directly from the center speaker! Except that my Marantz receiver was completely off the whole time, of course. Just unf*cking-believable soundstage, I could precisely locate where different instruments were playing to the front, left and right of me! LOL now I *finally* know what "soundstage" really means, after reading about it a million times on these audio forums...

BTW, I tried using the Marantz as a pre-amp...night and day difference. Without the NAD pre/pro, it's barely any different than the Marantz alone.
Now I'm almost tempted to sell off the Marantz, center speaker and rears so I can get a really good sub; with 2-channel this good, who needs surround sound?

NewBuyer
06-01-2005, 11:11 PM
What NAD gear are you using exactly?

gr1m
06-01-2005, 11:37 PM
(Just curious, anybody else hear excessive hiss on "Come Away With Me" and not on any other songs on that CD?)


me!!! mee!!!!

shane55
06-02-2005, 10:35 AM
(Just curious, anybody else hear excessive hiss on "Come Away With Me" and not on any other songs on that CD?)

Just listened to this and the other tracks on this CD.
My friend, while I may be wrong, I believe you are hearing the drummers brush on his cymbal. Old 'smooth jazz' technique... sometimes the brush is rubbed in a circle on the snare drum, and other times it's rubbed along the cymbal for that 'light rain' sound.

Try it again, and let me know if you agree. ;)

cheers.

shane

Abhi
06-02-2005, 05:57 PM
I believe you are hearing the drummers brush on his cymbal. Old 'smooth jazz' technique... sometimes the brush is rubbed in a circle on the snare drum, and other times it's rubbed along the cymbal for that 'light rain' sound.
shane
I second shane55. When I changed the placement of my 170s, I was pleasantly surprised listening to this background sound. Before that I thought there was some kind of a hiss. See my post here: http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showpost.php?p=8396&postcount=45

Quinn
06-02-2005, 08:13 PM
Correct. You are hearing the brushes on the drums.

Eddie
06-02-2005, 10:38 PM
New Buyer,

it's a 2200 amp, 1240 pre/pro and 4225 tuner. At least 15 years old by my guess.

Eddie
06-02-2005, 10:41 PM
gr1m,

I'm curious, what's your CD player?

Someone on another forum suggested it could be my vintage Sony ES cd player, I've been reluctant to shell out $700 for a Denon 2910.

Anybody know of any high quality CD players, used or B-stock, for around $200-300? $400-500?

Was looking at the modded Toshiba 3960 at referenceaudiomods.com for $450, has anyone here ever used them?

Eddie
06-02-2005, 10:48 PM
shane, abhi, & quinn,

so do you guys hear that "cymbal-brushing" THROUGHOUT the entire song, nonstop like I do? I don't think it ever lets up or changes tempo the whole time.

Chris I know you have an awesome audiophile quality CD player and separates, if even you hear it throughout the whole song like I do then I'll make peace with it. :rolleyes:

Eddie
06-02-2005, 10:53 PM
BTW what do you guys think about using a graphic equalizer to cut down on excessive hiss like on this Norah Jones song, which is really unpleasant at more than moderate levels? Also to compensate for crappy recordings?

I noticed that the NAD pre/pro has a Tape Monitor setup which should work very well with a separate equalizer, at least that's how I remember my big brother's setup way back in the late 70s...

shane55
06-02-2005, 11:09 PM
shane, abhi, & quinn,

so do you guys hear that "cymbal-brushing" THROUGHOUT the entire song, nonstop like I do? I don't think it ever lets up or changes tempo the whole time.



Yes... the entire song. He (Dan Rieser) pauses briefly... for an instant... just after she sings "...so won't you try..." Then he resumes and she sings "...to come." Really. ;)

It's just the product of good speakers bringing out every nuance in the music. Damn good, no?

enjoy

shane

curtis
06-02-2005, 11:17 PM
I just listened to my copy. It's definitely the cymbal brushing, and it does change a bit in a couple spots on the song.

This is with my Denon 2900, analog connection to my Sherwood/Newcastle P-965, ATI 1502 amp, and Hsu VTF-3.

Yes....damn good!

tw1zt3d
06-02-2005, 11:51 PM
gr1m,

I'm curious, what's your CD player?

Someone on another forum suggested it could be my vintage Sony ES cd player, I've been reluctant to shell out $700 for a Denon 2910.

Anybody know of any high quality CD players, used or B-stock, for around $200-300? $400-500?

Was looking at the modded Toshiba 3960 at referenceaudiomods.com for $450, has anyone here ever used them?

pcmall.com is authorized to carry denon B/refurb stock. i'm picking up the 2910 myself, and it runs 450

Abhi
06-03-2005, 11:14 AM
shane, abhi, & quinn,

so do you guys hear that "cymbal-brushing" THROUGHOUT the entire song, nonstop like I do? I don't think it ever lets up or changes tempo the whole time.

Eddie, the sound doesn't change tempo, but it does not sound like a hiss either. I knew it was some kind of instrument, but now I know it's drum brushes. It's throughout the song, but off and on. This sound is mostly produced by the tweeter. I think treating the first reflection points in your room would resolve it more. Just my 2 cents!

Eddie
06-03-2005, 06:59 PM
WHEW!!! Thanks guys, you've just saved my wallet and possibly my marriage too. For the time being at least, :p

Looks like I'll hang on to that Sony a bit longer then!

Eddie
06-03-2005, 07:01 PM
pcmall.com is authorized to carry denon B/refurb stock. i'm picking up the 2910 myself, and it runs 450

thanks, I'll check that out though will probably hold off for the time being.

Please do a review when it comes in, I'd be curious to see how much of an improvement you can hear between the 2910 and whatever CD player you have right now.