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lmm
05-26-2005, 12:09 AM
I recently got my new setup from Ascend:

CMT-340s front (L/R/C), 200s rear (wall mounted), Hsu STF-3 subwoofer.
HK 635 reciever. Whenever I'm listening to something, I can get great sounds, but I find myself fiddling a lot with the controls.

I tried the automatic EzSet/Eq setup, but I thought the result was missing some range in the low end, so I went to "manual".

With the CMT-340s, is it better to set the speakers to "large" or to "small" with a 60Hz crossover? You don't get too much directionality with 60Hz?

However, I noticed that with this setting, when I was playing a 120Hz tone but using "Level 7" mode on the receiver, all of the sound was coming from the subwoofer! Is this just a wierdness of "Level 7"?

The STF-3 is pretty loud -- what level should I set it at? If I put the knob on the STF-3 in the middle, the HK calibration sets it down to -10db, which I think is the maximum.

Should I leave the crossover in the STF-3 out, or turn it on?

Is there any way to see what it's doing with equalization? I was assuming that autoEQ would adjust multiple frequencies, but there's no indication what the settings are.

BradJudy
05-26-2005, 06:07 AM
Definitely start by setting the 340s to small and the sub crossover to 'out'.

60Hz should not be directional. In my experience, I wasn't able to localize 80Hz or lower and I know many people feel that 100Hz and lower isn't directional.

For levels, I would recommend manual calibration using a RadioShack SPL meter and one of the calibration DVDs (Sound and Vision, Avia).

BGHD
05-26-2005, 09:30 AM
but I find myself fiddling a lot with the controls.I'm currently using the HK DPR 1005 (similar to 635 but digital amp and with EZSet not EZSetEQ), and find myself doing the same. Since I see so many recommendations to override what the EZSetEQ does, I guess the "EZ" part is a misnomer? I was thinking of swapping for 635 (much better reviews in AVS over the HK digis), so am interested w/ how things go for you.

Probably a stupid question, but for the 635, do you need to run EZSetEQ (or input manual settings) for each input (e.g. DVD, TV, etc) and/or mode (e.g. Dolby, DTS, Logic 7, etc)? This issue is where I find myself fiddling the most with the HK, and the manual provides very little help. Or, am I the only bone-head around that hasn't figured this out?


Should I leave the crossover in the STF-3 out, or turn it on?As already mentioned, I believe the Hsu's setup guide states to turn it to "out" so the AVR sets all the crossovers instead of at the sub.

lmm
05-26-2005, 01:33 PM
Well, EZSetEQ is "easy", the question is whether it is accurate.

I don't have a tripod, so I wound up holding the mike on its little extension rod with my hand. Perhaps that contributed to the variability?

You only run it once, and it applies to all of the modes and sources -- it's building a characterization of your speakers, independent of any sound processing.

It seems to have two parts, "far field" and "near field". My guess is that "far field" seems to set the basics of speaker availability, size, and crossover, while "near field" sets the equalization of the front, center and right channel.
EZSetEQ is supposed to also equalize the low bass, so that's not so consistent with my theory.

I got a pretty quick response from their online technical support (they sent me RS232 codes), so I suppose I could ask!

Lou-the-dog
05-26-2005, 04:34 PM
The STF-3 is pretty loud -- what level should I set it at? If I put the knob on the STF-3 in the middle, the HK calibration sets it down to -10db, which I think is the maximum.

You are definitely going to need an SPL meter. My guess is that you are running that sub plenty hot. My VTF-3 is set at maybe 20% of it's gain... like 8 or 9 o'clock...but maybe the knob on the STF-3 is different too. Use the crossover in your AVR so set the sub to "out".

Randy

curtis
05-26-2005, 05:04 PM
I will also add, from everything that I have read, there is no way of knowing what the HK is doing in terms of EQ other than taking your own measurements.

"Level 7" I think you mean "Logic 7".

For starters, I would cross the 340s at either 80hz or 60hz, and the 200's at either 80hz or 100hz.

What was the source of the 120hz test tone?

Remember, I think the HK has the ability to set different crossover points for different DSP modes.....so make sure you know the settings when you are listening.

lmm
05-26-2005, 10:04 PM
You're right, I meant "Logic 7".

I was mainly looking for test tones to use to find rattles in the room, so accuracy didn't matter much. I just wanted some simple tracks I could use that would stay long enough at the same frequency that I could figure out what was rattling; this is more of checking the room, not the system.

I was thinking the center was getting some resonances with the cabinet it is sitting in, so I raised the crossover on the center to 80 (leaving the left and right at 60). I'm thinking I want to raise the front of the center a little bit, so maybe some sound isolation pads.

Google on "mp3 sine wave test tones" led me to the RealTraps test CD (http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm) which I was using. It just surprised me to hear all of the 120Hz tone coming from the subwoofer. When I changed from Logic 7 to one of the Dolby modes, the sound moved to the fronts.

I have Digital Video Essentials, and these test tones, but I'm not sure whether I need AVIA if I want to check levels with a SPL. (Is there some part of DVE that I haven't discovered?) I have AVIA as my next selection from NetFlix (they didn't have it a while ago when I looked, but they must of added it.)

I'm not quite sure: I guess the idea is to run EzSet/EQ until I get a flat sound pressure level from each channel at each tone, right?

lmm
06-07-2005, 04:50 PM
I wound up doing a factory reset on my HK635 (while fiddling with the remotes), so I recalibrated.

The second time around, I set the threshold to 100hz for all 5 speakers. I think the reasoning is:


the crossover should be the same for all speakers (it being questionable whether the receiver can do a good job on differential eq with various surround modes)

for any speaker, the should crossover to be higher than the low end of the speaker's rated range

The crossover isn't abrupt, and you're still getting the advantage of your main's good woofers below the crossover point


With 340s and 200s, I could choose either 80hz or 100hz. Since the subwoofer has a really honking amplifier, it really removes some of the load on the main amp and the speakers to have a slightly higher crossover.

Anyway, that was my theory. I may go back to 80Hz if I need to recalibrate again. An A/B comparison is hard because it takes a while to recalibrate after changing the crossover points.

Anyone else tried doing A/B tests with different crossover points?

hhcan
06-08-2005, 12:02 PM
Yes you do need to run the ezset for all input (DTS, Dolby, 6 channel audio, and Logic7).

I have the h/k 630 and my cross over for the 340 is 60Hz, the 170 and 200 are 80Hz. My sub (vtf 2-mk2)volumn is set at around 11 o'clock position (the h/k630 has sub set to 0dB). I place my sub behind my back so I switch the sub phase to 180 instead of 0 and the bass of this setting is well tight.

I kind of disappoint with Logic 7 because it's kind of bright and dry. The Dolby PIIx for music is the most neutral mode and I use it most of the time. DTS neo: 6 has more bass than any other mode so I use it sometimes for recording with weak in bass.

lmm
06-08-2005, 12:19 PM
The ezset menu doesn't seem to have any correlation to the surround mode or input type, so your comment that you need to run it separately for each type confuses me. can you explain?

"Yes you do need to run the ezset for all input (DTS, Dolby, 6 channel audio, and Logic7). "

is this a 630/635 difference?

hhcan
06-08-2005, 12:38 PM
The ezset menu doesn't seem to have any correlation to the surround mode or input type, so your comment that you need to run it separately for each type confuses me. can you explain?

is this a 630/635 difference?

I believe there is no difference. To start the ezset for each input, make sure you switch to that input first. For example, (assuming you have 7 channels setup) to ezset DTS, press the NEO:6 (don't even try DTS button because your receiver will never switch to it without the digital DTS bit stream) button on the remote; when your receiver displays DTS NEO:6, start your ezset. Do the same thing for Dolby PIIx and Logic 7 7 channel(music or movie doesn't matter). When you are done with a certain input, all settings will retain for both 5 and 7 channels of this particular input.

I had my volumn up to -15 dB before doing the ezset so make sure you don't accidently turn on a radio or your DVD player with a CD in it!

hhcan
06-08-2005, 12:42 PM
A correction to my post, I stated input while it should be mode. You do need to ezset for each mode but NOT each input.

lmm
06-08-2005, 10:38 PM
I'm finding some things in the HK635 manual (http://manuals.harman.com/hk/Owner%27s%20Manual/AVR%20635%20OM%20w_o%20crop.pdf) pretty puzzling.

At one point (page 20, 3rd column, top paragraph), it says that you can set speaker size, surround mode and crossover frequency (frequencies?) for each input source. (Not for each surround mode).

However (on page 21, 1st paragraph), it says the configuration settings for speaker size and crossover points are set once and applied to all inputs.

The HK635 EzSet/EQ does equalization as well as level setting. There's nothing in the EzSet/EQ menu that indicates that it's for a particular input or mode.

There is a "LEVEL TRIM" setting that can either be "GLOBAL" or "INDEPENDENT", which lets you calibrate the sound levels from each speaker (Front, Center, Right, Surrounds, Sub) for each input (not mode). But it is a manual setting, not an automatic EzSet option.

I also looked at the HK630 manual (http://manuals.harman.com/HK/Owner%27s%20Manual/AVR%20630%20OM%20.pdf), but it didn't look like the settings were all that different.

They don't win any prizes for "clear and comprehensive instruction manual". :eek:

BGHD
06-09-2005, 06:47 AM
I'm finding some things in the HK635 manual (http://manuals.harman.com/hk/Owner%27s%20Manual/AVR%20635%20OM%20w_o%20crop.pdf)They don't win any prizes for "clear and comprehensive instruction manual". :eek:Agreed. There's definitely a steeper learning curve with the H/Ks. They don't mention the little important things in the manual. I'm slowly starting to get it, but it's good to know I'm not the only one.