Subs... any inherent benefit to front vs. down - firing?

[shane55]

Hi all you sub experts...

I am curious to know if there are any inherent design - use advantages to down-firing subs v. front-firing?

VTF-3 MK2 (or LFM-1) vs. SVS PB10-ISD... for example.

Would one:
1) be easier to place?
2) inherently have more kick?
3) have more or less phase difficulty?

Forget FR graphs. Assume the FR is identical with both types.

TIA

shane

[curtis]

In terms on sound quality, all things being equal, no.

Down firing subs need clearance for the woofer, so they tend to be a little taller.

Front firing obviously needs clearance in front of the woofer....but not a whole lot.

Also, front firing may invite the curiousity of kids, although that has not been an issue for me....yet.

I have also read posts where the ports on subs have made an interesting toy recepticle. :)

[shane55]

Curtis...

Thanks. No kids one dog (not allowed in room), one wife (not preferentially listed) ;)

Currently, from my 'sweet spot' my front firing sub is about 8 ft. in front of me, just to the left (my left as I face it) of the 'entertainment center. About 3.5 ft from the left wall. It just doesn't seem to have the 'impact' that I was hoping for. It goes deep... real deep, but I'm just not feeling it. I don't have a lot of positioning options unfortunately.

Also... If I move from the sweet spot, the effect decreases radically. Will that change with a down-firing sub?

I'd hate to have to go through the hassle of getting another sub, but....

shane

[curtis]

All subs are different.

What kind of sub do you have now, and have you tried placing it in different areas?

[metalaaron]

i've had better experiences with down firing subs vs. front firing. my first two subs were from paradigm's pdr series. my next sub was a hsu stf-2. i've stuck with hsu subs ever since.

i would wager that one of the key benefits to a down firing woofer is the low center of gravity. i would also wager that the enclosure is probably well braced in this form, and this can allow the designer to make it very stable. this would probably be a good question on hsu's forum. or, link it to here and see if one of their resident gurus can shed some light on the sub design choices.

[shane55]

SVS PB10-ISD.
No. I have not played much with the placement, because my options are very limited. WAF and all. Ugh...
Therefore the question. If I had many different positions to put it into, I would try each... but unfortuanately, things are a bit tight here. :(

shane

[shane55]

Just as an aside... I'm sure the SVS is a fantastic sub... really.
I just have 'placement issues' ;)

Any faq's on sub placement? It's probably all I need. I was just wondering... all things being equal, with only one place to put a sub, if there would be any advantage to one design over the other. The designers must have a good reason for making one kind or another... no?

shane

[curtis]

yeah....To make the PB10 downfiring, they would have needed to use their customary bottom plate, adding cost and size.

How big is your room?

[metalaaron]

shane,
is the phase default at 0? some people prefer 180 degree phase adjustments for certain types of music. not sure if the impact you seek is lacking in terms of music or HT, or both?

[shane55]

Metalaaron.
I tested somewhat extensively with the phase control. It is now at 90. It seemed too minimized at 0, and too 'boomy' (?) at 180. 90 seemed to be the best setting.


Curtis.
The room is not too big. 12d x 17w x 8h.
I've been re-arranging the furniture just now to try to get it closer to the corner. Is there such a thing as 'too close to the corner'? Should it angle out, or be perpendicular with the wall (sorry for the doofus q's).

shane

[Lou-the-dog]

Thanks. No kids one dog (not allowed in room), one wife (not preferentially listed) ;)shane

Shane,

Sooo I'm trying to figure out if it is the dog or the wife that is not allowed in the room? :D :D

Randy

[shane55]

Shane,

Sooo I'm trying to figure out if it is the dog or the wife that is not allowed in the room? :D :D

Randy

That is correct. ;)

shane

[shane55]

Ok... so here's how it worked out.

Front firing sub is now directly next to the entertainment cabinet, facing directly towards the sitting area (couch), and about 3.5' from the nearest corner. I couldn't do the technique of putting the sub on the couch and crawling around... that was just unfeasable. So after moving it numerous times (man that thing is heavy!), it's basically where it started.

My room is filled with dead spots. It's crazy, but there were some positions where the sub was barely audible from the couch, but just 2' forward it nearly knocked me back with sound.

The thing that really worked for me was the variable phase dial. 0 and 180 were bad. 90 was ok. 120 was just right. Whew! Glad I could dial it in.

It sounds pretty good now. At a later date, once some furniture gets out of the room, I'll probably have to do this again, and with a bit more perserverance.

Thanks to everyone for the input. It would appear that there is no absolute, clear difference between the two designs. It seems to be a matter of positioning and preference... all else being equal.

cheers

shane